More junk science?

[jrnannery]

Sounds kinda strange to me that such a limited-duration event could have such a lasting impact.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HURRICANE_BENEFIT?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE =DEFAULT

Richard

[Jeff]

there are probebly factors other than temp helping along but i'm sure it is a big help.

[Bill S]

Without getting into specific arguements...

One of the problems that environmental scientists have is a lack of long term data. For instance, coral reefs in most areas of the world have only been studied since the 80s - almost no studies or work was being done before this time. That gives environmental scientists an EXTREMELY small time frame to look at.

As an example, we just got back from a cruise in Alaska. Glacier Bay has just about the BEST glacier data available, because Captain Vancouver recorded data 250 years ago, and ever since then, there has been an effort to continue to collect data on Glacier Bay's glaciers. ALL of the date data on each glacier is on the park map! It's interesting to note that these glaciers have been receeding for at least 250 years - well before any effects from man could have happened. Glacier bay, which is now about 40 miles long - was totally full of glacier when Vancouver "discovered" it! They receeded over 15 miles in the years 1750-1800 alone! By 1907, most of the receeding that has taken place up to now, had already taken place (all but about 1 mile). In once recent year, there was "growth" recorded in the glaciers.

[Bill S]

Also worth noting, Mendenhall glacier, by far the largest glacier in southeastern Alaska (over 80% of the total glaciation in the area) is GROWING. But, the global warming folks instead report: "4 out of 5 of the southeastern Alaska glaciers are receeding".

[Jeff]

glacier bay is beautiful, i went there while in the navy back in 1995-96. i snagged a samon and brought it in with a grizzly sitting about 75-100 ft away.

[Bill S]

YOW! I think I'd have given up the fish...

[SuperMom]

What ever it is, as long as it helps the reefs for future generations. It would be good to find out what is extacly that is helping, other than the cooling water. Global warming, is part of evolution, we enjoy our modern lifestyles for that we have to pay a price. The irony is that we live in an aquarium just like our marine pets.

[erikharrison]

Astronomically, we are getting closer to the center of the universe, as we spin our way around. That brings us closer and closer to other stars and galaxies which could be increasing the temps on earth due to solar flare heat from neighboring stars. From what I have read, around 2012 we will start going back away from our closest point, and the temps and wild weather should be starting to settle. It should only get worse until then, so hang on for a ride!

[SuperMom]

what is five more years...right!? 2012 here we go...

[Richard]

We're all gonna die! I'm sure of it.

[erikharrison]

That's when the Mayan Calendar ends. Alot of people think that 12-21-2012 is the last day in the world. BTW the Mayans have what is known as the "perfect" calendar. Alot of speculation surrounds that date!!! Have fun with google and read about it!

[AMulwani]

Interesting.

[captexas]

Yeah it's interesting, especially since you would think that a somewhat sudden temperature change like that would do more harm than good to corals and other animals.

And if mankind doesn't kill the planet the planet will eventually kill mankind. The world has been evolving for millions of years, man is just along for the ride with the rest of the animals. Humans can never stop the planet from changing, but we can do two things - 1) reduce our impact on the situation and 2)adapt to our changing environment.

[blueboy]

eric-the mayan calendar isn't "perfect" it is just far more complex than ours, and deals with the leap year problem in a different way. it is entirely possible that the mathematical nature of the mayan calendar is the "reason" it ends on 12-21-2012. it's simply the last date on the calendar when calculated by their interpretation of time, and besides, it was unimaginably far in the future when the calendar was developed. i guess what i am saying is, with a calendar such as the mayans', there has to be an "end" date. that doesn't mean that that date is the "last day in the world", just the last day that the mayan calendar will be accurate. but, if your interested in that sort of thing(and i know you are) i highly recomend a book called"fingerprints of the gods" by graham hancock. there's some mind blowing info in there!

[blueboy]

oh, and i think it's particularly indicative of most people's egocentrism that when we say " the end of the world", what we really mean is the end of US, people. i think it's unlikely that the world will ever end, that is, cease to exist.

[Bill S]

Hmm. Interesting on that Mayan Calendar. The "Bill Calendar" on my wall ends on December 31st of THIS YEAR. Uh oh!

[jrnannery]

That's when the Mayan Calendar ends. Alot of people think that 12-21-2012 is the last day in the world. BTW the Mayans have what is known as the "perfect" calendar. Alot of speculation surrounds that date!!! Have fun with google and read about it!

I swear it's true, I saw it on the INTERNET!!! :lol :lol

PS Not laughing at you, bro.

Richard

[jrnannery]

oh, and i think it's particularly indicative of most people's egocentrism that when we say " the end of the world", what we really mean is the end of US, people. i think it's unlikely that the world will ever end, that is, cease to exist.

I also believe that it is INCREDIBLY naive, or even egotistical of humans to believe that we can "destroy the planet", short of an all-out nuclear exchange, that is.

[captexas]

I also believe that it is INCREDIBLY naive, or even egotistical of humans to believe that we can "destroy the planet", short of an all-out nuclear exchange, that is.



You mean once we use up all the earth's natural resources, contaminate all the freshwater supply, and pollute the air so much you can't breathe it without a filter (like in parts of China already), you won't think we've destroyed the planet? Oh, I left out the part where a few hundred/thousand more species of animals are extinct or only live in captivity. Will mankind have destroyed the planet then?

I'm no tree hugger or environmentalist, but I think it's incredibly naive for anyone to think mankind is not destroying the planet or to think we shouldn't do more to help protect the natural environment we have left. For those that don't think we are slowly destroying our planet, close your eyes, take some deep breaths, and picture in your mind what this planet would look like if mankind had never been here. As far as the all-out nuclear exchange goes, it may still happen one day. In the past the nuclear threat was over who was the bigger super power in the world. In the future the threat will be over what natural resources we have left.

[erikharrison]

In the past the nuclear threat was over who was the bigger super power in the world. In the future the threat will be over what natural resources we have left.

VERY profound statement. We already have a war going on about one! Just wait till we get down to clean water. CRIKEY!

[erikharrison]

Oh yeah, and to add...
My buddy Billy has a roomate that studies under the formost leader in Mayan culture. Billy was telling me that they base their number system on four. I can't remember all of the details, but he was telling me how it incorporated into the stars and their calendar. I wish I still had his number!!!! He was so awesome to talk to! He told me that they had based EVERY building on the stars and in doing so could make certain rooms light at certain parts of the day, and that the time/light would be in the right rooms during duty specific times. I think it's very interesting how they used the stars.

Sidenote: The Parthenon in Greece is based on the square root of 5, which is called the magic number, since it never repeats. By doing so, there is not a single straight line throughout the parthenon. Everything is bowed, and different heights etc. Together though, it all looks so perfect and square!!!

[mathias]

One word....


NASTRODAMUS....

yea yea I proably spelled it wrong lol

[Bill S]

Frankly, my opinion is that just about anyone on these forums needs to look directly into their tank(s), and resolve that issue about what was taken from the wild in order to populate/stock that tank, and the overindulgent waste of power to keep it up and running. Once you have a "green" tank - nothing taken from any natural resource, light it totally with sunlight, and power the pumps with wind energy, THEN you have earned the right to criticize others for their actions/beliefs. Otherwise, it's a "People in glass houses..." scenario.

[Richard]

Once you have a "green" tank - nothing taken from any natural resource, light it totally with sunlight, and power the pumps with wind energy, THEN you have earned the right to criticize others for their actions/beliefs. Otherwise, it's a "People in glass houses..." scenario


I'm sorry Bill but that is incorrect. You can do whatever you want, it just means you have to buy more carbon credits :wacko .

[jrnannery]

[quote="erikharrison"] We already have a war going on about one! /quote]

Erik - are you implying that the war on terror is about...a natural resource?

[Bill S]

Hey, seriously, this thread has exhibited the probability of going downhill very, very quickly... Let's TRY and leave politics out of this. The only thing that ever happens is the folks get mad.

[jrnannery]

Or the thread gets closed/deleted...

I would actually like to offer an apology to all MAAST members for how this thread has ended up, and request that this thread be locked so that it does NOT get away from us.

[Bill S]

Locked...

[Texreefer]

no need to lock just remember the original discussion and remember that we are all adults :D

[Bill S]

Now THAT'S funny... We both posted at the same time. Cool with me, let's everyone be good!

UNLOCKED!

[erikharrison]

why lock it? I wasn't saying anything to start a fight? :P Just toolin around! :)

[captexas]

Wow, someone is a little trigger happy with the locking of threads! :ph34r

No reason to lock it as long as the posts stay on topic and don't become personal. As far as keeping "politics" out of the discussion, that is impossible. This is a very political topic no matter how you look at it. Never understand why people say "keep politics out of this". Anytime there is a disagreement over an issue or what should be done about it, politics are involved in finding a resolution.

Anyway, back to our originally scheduled program! :)

As far as the original topic goes, you know, hurricanes helping lowering ocean temps and helping the reefs that are dying off, it's kind of a weird circle. First they say the higher water temperatures are one of the issues that are affecting the reefs and now they think hurricanes help reduce the temperature. Isn't it also believed that the higher water temps are responsible for us having more/worse hurricanes? So one bad thing is helping reduce another bad thing? lol

[Bill S]

Hurricanes are a way to remove massive amounts of energy out of the water and into kinetic energy. They are one of nature's ways of balancing things out. As for hurricanes getting stronger, take a look at a paper done by one of the top guys at the Hurricane Center. He says a lack of data is totally skewing the severity of recent storms. Even as recently as back in the 70s, there was no way to track hurricanes, until they hit shore. Even then, there was a storm that hit Bangledesh and killed over 200,000 people, more than likely a Catagory 5 storm, and it was NOT even included in the data researchers used to show recent storms were stronger! How can you ignore a storm like that?

[Bill S]

As for politics, I firmly believe we shouldn't get involved in it in this forum. Personally, I think it will always lead to hurt feelings. In the above case, the politics were straying off of the intended subject (to the war...), and that issue 1) doesn't belong in this thread 2) is sure to get ugly and 3) won't contribute to the peace and harmony (lol) on this board!

[ClownReef®]

I still cant find out how the war has anything to do with a hurricane helping coral.

[hobogato]

it doesnt. lets stay on track with the topic :)

[Jeff]

the gun fire startles a butterfly which flies off creating a wind ect... :innocent sorry i couldn,t help it. i don't know if it is the kinetic energy of the ocean or what but i do know that from every bad thing that happens something good comes from it.

[captexas]

Politics is the art/science of negotiating to get what you want, it's not necessarily a bad thing. And yes I agree the war is not related to the main topic here and should be left to other places to be discussed.

As far as nature, weather, or our earth goes, there are lots of unknowns and lots left to be explored. As far as studies go, they can be skewed depending on who is doing the study and what their agenda is so don't always believe what you read/hear/see.