Metal Halide Suggestions

[LoneStar]

Well now that my copy-cat Lumenarc III's are done, I'm going to begin searching for a bulb/ballast combination.

Here is what my new setup will consist:
(2) 250w mogul based metal halides on the outer edges of the tank
(1) 400w double end (DE) based metal halide in the center of the tank
(2) 140w 60" VHO actinic bulbs (URI brand on a IceCap 430 electronic ballast)

I've used metal halides in combination with VHO's in the past. Basically the only bulb I have tried out is the XM 10k with the super actinic VHO's. The ballasts I used were a old refurb from Ebay (wouldn't do that again) and later on I added a PFO magnetic ballast. Over time the XM 10k's seemed to yellow out too much for my taste. I have heard great things about them but I'm leaning towards a different brand and color spectrum.

What I want to use is electronic ballasts for the 250w lamps. I'm not sure which ones are rated better than others. Right now a electronic 250w IceCap is what I'm thinking. If there are any other top quality brands, feel free to list them, along with any experiences with them.

Also, I'm looking for a new bulb brand and spectrum. I really do believe 10k's are the way to go, but I do like the look of a good 12k light. Anything above 12k is just too blue for me. Again, what would be the best brand to look into getting? If it costs a little more than other brands, I'm able to wait and save up. 8)

As for the 400w DE, its basically going to be run 2-3 hours a day to mimic peak lighting. I'm kinda limited to bulbs for this fixture so I'm thinking of either a Hamilton 10k or 14k bulb. I guess it would just depend on what color the outer 250's will be.

[Texreefer]

Thats gonna be a great setup,, i like it the way it is,, i would use a reflux DE 12k for the 400 and stick with the xm 10k for the 250s , then I would prefer both actinic for the vho but if you like a little less blue go with one each actinic and daylight,, this will give you a good mix of color

[erikharrison]

If you wanna try some local stuff, I got my SPS branded bulb from AD. I am so far very satisfied with it.

[Ram_Puppy]

lonestar,

I have two Icecap ballasts for driving 250 watt DE's, and I have to say I could not be happier w/ them.

I think Phoenix brand bulbs are a fantastic brand... I like their 20 and 14K bulbs.

I have one of my icecaps hooked up to a 10K ushio DE (250 watt) right now, if you want to borrow the fixture for a few days and see how you like it, just let me know. (not for sale though)

[Bill S]

I have 400w DE Hamilton 14Ks on mine right now. I have to say, the color has yellowed a LOT over the last 4 months - and I have 2x72" VHO actinics... I don't know if I will go with them again. As far as I know, there is no Reeflux 400w DE bulb. When I last talked with them about it, they didn't think the market would support a $150 bulb. I just checked their website, and they don't show them. As for ballasts, I believe I've heard that electronic ballasts aren't recommended for use with DE bulbs. In any case, I'd be hesitant to get anther Coralvue 400w. I've had to replace 2 of my 3 NEW ones (red) under warranty - and one twice.

[LoneStar]

I forgot to mention that the 400w DE setup I have is a PFO pendant and a magnetic PFO ballast. The magnetic ballast wouldn't bother me too much since its only going to be on a brief time each day. And Bill, your probably right. I've been looking for other ballasts in that size and I'm not sure if there is a electronic version. Thats interesting about the 400w 14ks going south so quick. I wonder if the 10k 400w DE would hold up better?

I really do like the super actinics so I'd definatly go with 2 of them for the VHO's. :)

So it looks like IceCap is a front runner on the 250w ballast. I'm still up for any info on others. Thanks for the heads up with Coralvue ;)

But with 250w bulbs there are lots of options! Does Ushio make a mogul based 10k? Or does Phoenix make a 10k as well? Out of all the brands, what would be a good, crisp white 10k? But then that may direct me to a good ballast that will run that bulb....

[Texreefer]

Bstreep,, you are correct, this was discussed before.. they do not make them! :wacko

[Ram_Puppy]

Lonestar, where did you read electronic ballasts are not good for DE bulbs? As far as i know electronic ballasts and DE's is considered the 'crem de la crem' combo?


Icecap customer service cannot be beat. I have never ever had an issue w/ them. (sorry, don't want to hijack the thread!)

[LoneStar]

Lonestar, where did you read electronic ballasts are not good for DE bulbs? As far as i know electronic ballasts and DE's is considered the 'crem de la crem' combo?


Nope didn't say they were bad. Just that I have not come across a 400w electronic ballast while searching on websites.

Well I'm going through Sanjay's website too.

Sanjay's Reef Lighting Info Pages
http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm

For those of you 'in the know', I got a few questions. When I do searches on different bulb/ballast combinations, it displays a chart with columns of info. The only 2 acronyms that I could not find descriptions for are : PPFD & CCT

I'm assuming the PPFD may be the par ratting? Anyone know for sure?

[LoneStar]

Icecap customer service cannot be beat. I have never ever had an issue w/ them. (sorry, don't want to hijack the thread!)


Don't worry about a hijack. Customer service issues are just as important as performance issues in my book. :) I'm all ears for any issues with any company.

[villjr]

http://www.reefexotics.com/coralvue_lighting.htm

Says they have 400 watt electronic ballasts. Price doesn't look to bad either.

PM Sent.

[Ram_Puppy]

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Metal_Halide/IceCap/Ballasts/Metal_Halide_Ballast:_1-400W_Universal_by_IceCap

yup...

400 watt electronic ballast - icecap too!

[LoneStar]

Ahh good deal. Guess I kept overlooking them or never saw them. But I may stick with the magnetic one for the 400w since I already have it. I can always switch it out later....

[villjr]

Only thing can you run a DE bulb on a 400 W ballast? Not sure if they are relly made for DE.

[Ram_Puppy]

yeah, I don't think there are DE bulbs in 400 watt.

Lonestar, what, aside from look are you trying to achieve w/ the setup?

We know that your gonig for mid-day sun w/ the 400 watter...

so overall, i am guessing you want a colortemp around 12K?

when the noon'day sun comes up w/ the 400 watter, have you thought about going w. a 6K? I mean 6 is where the sun is at, and simulation of the sun and all.. maybe go w/ a warm bulb to encourage growth and then w/ your other lights go w/ the 12K bubls, and super actinics on your VHO's.

that way, for the bulk of the day your hitting that high color temp to get color, and half way through the day your zapping them w/ that growth enducing flood of light.

btw, ballast has a lot to do w/ how a bulb looks, those hamiltons might be yellowing up because of the ballast. my 175 hamilton never strayed into the yellow.

[villjr]

They do make DE 400 W bulbs. I'm not to well versed enouhg on ballasts to know how a DE fires on a magnetic or electronic ballast or if there are hqi ballasts.

[LoneStar]

yeah, I don't think there are DE bulbs in 400 watt.


there are ;)
http://hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=481

The whole tank will be SPS and possibly some clams...depends on how I aquascape. But anyways 12k's would look nice on the ends. The center 400w would look good with a 10k, I think. I'm just kicking around ideas on here to see what you guys think. Plus to give some people that may otherwise not know about these things a chance to review them...

[Ram_Puppy]

cool, I only checked reefgeek so i should have been more thourough!

[erikharrison]

I'm pretty positive that they have them, although they do not make an HQI (specific) ballast for 400w. They do have the standard one though.

[matt]

PPFD stands for photosynthetic photon flux density (or something like that) and is more or less equivalent to PAR. CCT stands for color corrected temperature, and is a measure of the spectrum.

Electronic ballasts will fire DE bulbs but will deliver less intensity than HQI ballasts for the same bulb. Sometimes the color is a little different as well. The advantage of the electronic ballasts is that the bulbs supposedly last longer ad they definitely use less electricity than the HQI ballasts. Last time I checked into it thee were no 400W HQI ballasts, but there are 400W magnetic ballasts that will fire 400W DE bulbs; you just have to find the right one. Somewhere on RC there's a killer thread that's been archived that has extensive bulb/ballast matching info.

With the XM10ks there used to be a pretty big difference in CCT between the 250W bulbs and 400W. The 400W tested bluer and less yellow. Since you're going with DE bulbs this probably doesn't matter. Sanjay's site has all this info, so you probably won't go too wrong if you check out the bulbs you're considering.

[LoneStar]

Thanks for the description of the acronyms Matt. It will help me make sense of Sanjay's chart a little more.

Sanjays site is pretty neat. It will show you the performance of a bulb on a certain ballast. Now off to do more research :)

[Ram_Puppy]

ok, to be clear though...

HQI and Electronic are not mutually exclusive correct? I don't see how they would be since my icecap ballasts fire DE bulbs.

[Bill S]

OK, let's see if I can answer these:

Yes, there are several 400w DE bulbs.
Yes, there are 400w electronic ballasts - Coralvue is one of them.
Yes, you can run a DE 400w bulb on a 400w electronic ballast.
Several threads on RC have indicated that a 400w DE bulb with a magnetic ballast is the PREFERRED configuration - that they should not be run with electronic ballasts. That being said, that's what I have...

[LoneStar]

Thanks Bill!

Ok I started plugging in different options (in bulbs) on Sanjays site and came up with this:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/LoneStarSA/156g%20build/bulbcomparison.jpg

Looks like the XM 10k stands up pretty well. The Giesmann and Phoenix 10k's would be front runners too. Its just a matter if I like their color in person....which is hard to do going into a blind purchase ;)

[caferacermike]

lonestar,

I have two Icecap ballasts for driving 250 watt DE's, and I have to say I could not be happier w/ them.

I think Phoenix brand bulbs are a fantastic brand... I like their 20 and 14K bulbs.



Exactly what I have and the exact same feelings.

I got my ballasts slightly used and they have worked flawlessly.

[LoneStar]

So your running Phoenix bulbs Mike? If so what color spectrum?

[caferacermike]

14K. It appears white to me. I add 200w of power compact actinic as well. I've only met one person that felt their bulbs were blue. Now I have noticed that when the bulbs "warm up" when they fire that I kind of like the "yellow", more natural light, that is emitted just before full fire. Once they are lit everything looks great. The one thing I've noticed about my tank is that my SPS don't grow as fast as other tanks but the colors of my frags change within a week of adding them. The problem with color and growth is that there are several other factors like feeding and flow that can make a difference from one tank to another. People will see frags that I got from them and ask what they are because the color is so intense. I've ran them for 1 year and feel like they need to be changed soon. The color is the same as it was when I got them, just some of my corals seem to be losing some intensity, could be something else I'm not sure.

[Ram_Puppy]

I am currently running the 250 watt 20K phoenix lamp and I would describe it as closer to maybe a 16 or 18K.. it IS blue, but not so blue it washes all color out like some 20K's I have seen. (makes everything look blue)

I run it for 7 hours, and I have 4 x 24" High Output T-5's (2 actinic) (2 actinic plus (white) that come on for 9 hours, this balances out to more of a 10K color w/ intense colors. actually the lighting was thrown together when i broke down the 120, but i am very happy w/ it on this tank (the 120 had another halide). I think I am going to change it up later though, and go w/ aqua blue and actinic T-5s to blue up the tank and run a 10K halide.

[LoneStar]

I'm trying to find a website that sells the Giesmann and Phoenix lamps (10k & 14k's)...... :unsure

[BIGBIRD123]

Mike, as per our conversation at the meeting. I would use whatever bulb you decide (notice I'm not naming any bulbs) in the 400w 10K in the center on a 3-4 hr window and use the 12k on the ends 8hrs +


JMO

Steve

[Ram_Puppy]

reefgeek carries the 14K 250 watt PHX

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Replacement_Bulbs/Metal_Halide/250W_14000K+_Metal_Halide_Bulb_(Double-ended)_by_Phoenix

[Ram_Puppy]

they carry geissman T-5s, no halides though.

[LoneStar]

Ok after looking it over a bunch of times I finally made up my mind :)

(2) 250w 12.5k Giesmann MEGACHROME SE bulbs to be placed in the DIY Lumenarc III's
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/images/Megacrome_Pic.jpg
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=13K-250SE-G&Category_Code=mh-250w

(1) 400w 10k DE Hamilton in a PFO pendant
http://hellolights.com/ProductImages/metalhalidelamps/hamilton/hamilton400w.jpg
http://hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=512

(2) 140w 60" URI Super Actinic bulbs
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/images/uri.jpg
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60BVHO&Categ ory_Code=URIblue

The 250w lamps will be powered by a IceCap electronic ballast.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/images/ice250nb.jpg
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ICE-250NHB&Category_Code=Ice-halide

The 400w lamp will be powered by a PFO magnetic ballast (which I already have).

The VHO lighting will be powered by a IceCap 430 electronic ballast (which I already have).

[Bill S]

If that Hamilton is yellower than my 14K 400w DE Hamiltons, it might be a bit too yellow. If ya want, when you get yours in place, I'll let you borrow one of my 14Ks to look at. Or, come look at mine.

[LoneStar]

I'll take you up on that offer Bill. This month I'm going to concentrate on getting the tank up and running. After that I'll be looking at getting these lights purchased. I may hold off on the 400w bulb and buy the 250's first. Then I could borrow your 14k and see how it fits in the big picture ;)

[Bill S]

Just let me know!

[JimD]

I ran a Geismann 12.5k de on a Sunlight supply blue wave 3 ballast in a L3 and that sucker was BRIGHT! Still needed a good bit of actinics though to look good, still a little yellow on its own. The L3 acted as a heat sink and even with the light on for several hours the reflector was just warm to the touch directly above the bulb.

[LoneStar]

The L3 acted as a heat sink and even with the light on for several hours the reflector was just warm to the touch directly above the bulb.


Thats good to hear. The plan is to have a open top canopy, so that would help with the heat also. I think to VHO actinics should help with the color. The only hard part of all of this is saving up the money :lol