New marine fish / coral retailer in san antonio

[alteredego]

Do you think San Antonio could use one more LFS? any sugestions if one popped up?

[caferacermike]

As was just said in the fishy business thread, buy that shop for $15,000 and get started.

[erikharrison]

I personally wouldn't buy Fish Business due to location. It is in a "ghost town" type of area. Not even the H-E-B made it! The only thing that has lasted there is the Blockbuster. Scott are you tossing the idea around?

[Ram_Puppy]

I wouldn't buy fishybusiness either, as erik said, it's location is abysmal.

I also think that unless you are going to do a shop that is head and shoulders above everything else for many miles around san antonio, the effort is pointless. I think we are seeing LFS's close because they can't compete w/ all the many many stores around town. no one should confuse a loyal MAAST following w/ guranteed revenue... were not THAT large of a club (yet! :) )

I think this is market stabliziation at work.

anyhow... if I were going to break into this area...

I would say:

1) make the store very very nice, I mean absolutely gorgeous inside.
2) absolutely massive inside w/ a huge stock/selection & decent prices
3) aquaculture facility (not just a bucket w/ frags growing in it)
4) incredible display tanks of freshwater planted tanks, brakish, FO salt water, and reef...

oh... and you know what? SA won't support a store like this.. you'd have to go online as well and go toe to toe w/ liveaquaria and crew...

and that.. that would be a true challenge.

startup costs would be insane.

[erikharrison]

IMO, I think a small store, like AD would be really sweet, but with a better selection. I would like to see the prices right around LiveAquaria for fish, before shipping. There is alot of looking that goes on in this Hobby, so to truly make it worthwhile, you need a ton of GOOD dry goods. The first thing that I noticed in AD was the little rio twirl thingies that spin while pushing water. FB did have the coolest scraper and I wanted it but since he's not open Im out of luck. I would love to see REALLY exotic stuff, not sps! I'd like to be able to go to a place that doesn't sell drab looking zoos/palys. The only place that holds a candle to that is FA.

[Bill S]

CB. Too bad they are that far away.

Personally, I think SA had (has?) too much competition. As much as I hate to see folks like Louis drop out, in the long run, we will all be better off.

[AMulwani]

We own a Commercial Investment company and have (with hard work and dedication...research) done very well. This is our recipe...not a secret hope it help.
Rule #1 LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!
Rule #2 CUSTOMER SERVICE! CUSTOMER SERVICE! CUSTOMER SERVICE!
Rule #3 First impresion is the only one that counts ( we do not get a second chance ;) )
There are never to many LFS...The more the marrier. Look at the malls there are plenty of clothing stores and yet we always see more come in! Just watch the market.
A Brick and Morter will never ompete with the virtual stores...That is why Rules #1-3 are so important to us.

[Ram_Puppy]

There are never to many LFS...The more the marrier. Look at the malls there are plenty of clothing stores and yet we always see more come in! Just watch the market.


the clothing market and fish stores are two different things. people must have clothes, people do not need to have fish & coral. there are 1.2 million people in san antonio that shop for, or wear, clothes that are purchased locally.

There are no where NEAR that many people buying fish and coral.

Fish, and Coral, if well cared for, last a lot longer that a pair of clothes. and a fish store makes it's money selling filter cartridges, food, medicines, etc... equipment, not so much, tanks, hardly ever do they make a profit, and livestock margins are slim.

how many stores specialize in selling woolite?

While as a consumer we benefit from having to much competition for a short while, it does hurt us in the long run. See, fish stores get preferential treatment from the livestock dealers based on how much they order. the more they order, the more often they get a shot at premium livestock. when a region has to many stores, the buying power is spread out, and we get brown palys instead of purple ones, green mushrooms instead of red w/ metallic flakes. those go to the vendors w/ real buying power. By consolidating the buying power between a few competitive stores, the community benefits by getting better quality livestock made available to them.

Worst of all probably, is that one of our friends tries to break into an overstuffed market and ends up losing his life savings... that would suck.



A Brick and Morter will never compete with the virtual stores...That is why Rules #1-3 are so important to us.


B&M stores are where virtual stores got started. any virtual store worth it's name will have a B&M building somewhere, they MUST in order to maintain & grow out their livestock. no one says a b&M store w/ a virtual storefront needs to outcompete a VS, it just needs to remain competitive and have a good selection. it just needs to be able to hold it's own, this is nothing more than a way to enhance business, open another revenue stream. And i think, when it comes to livestock, you will never see a virtual store outcompete a b&m store when it comes to fish & coral, assuming that they both carry similar items... example. local store has a flame angel, online store has a flame angel. where am i going to buy?

no brainer? i get to see the actual fish locally, not a representative of it's family. i can see if it's active and healthy, i can talk to a store owner I know, trust, and respect. b&m has a lot of good stuff going for it, as does a hybrid business model.

Rules 1-3 are great though!

[brewercm]

Having a "Fish Store" in San Antonio is going to be just plain tough. The big three that have been around for a while probably still are lucky to make a marginal profit. Not that any pet store is going to put you in the Dominion. If you even want to make a go at it you are going to have to go beyond fish and sell at least dry goods for other pets. That is where you are going to make up your loses on the fish side, at least until you can get a decent reputation and good client base.

Don't be afraid to pay a few hundred more in rent to hit the right areas. There are many areas of SA that people will pay good money for premium dog/cat foods without even batting an eye if it means they don't hve to fight the crowds at other mega stores.

If it were me, I'd be looking in some of the areas on 281 just north of 1604 between Encino Park and Stone Oak Pkwy.

[captexas]

One problem comparing LFS to clothing stores is that unfortunately the majority of the people in this hobb are cheap skates looking to nickle and dime down the price on everything they want to buy. Hell, people complain they don't get discounts on RO water so what do we expect when LFS can't afford to stay in business? With clothing stores, while we may need to buy clothes, we don't need to pay $40 to $50 for a shirt or a pair of shorts at these overpriced stores where you are just paying becuase of the name. Yet, everyone seems to not have a problem spending there hard earned money on that. People here seem to want high quality livestock and quality dry goods, but not want to pay for it. Until hobbyists are willing to pay a little more for better stuff, these LFS will continue to have a hard time staying in business.

[AMulwani]

You are right clothes stores are not the same as fish stores & Virtual stores in some instances start as B&M. Like I said in the Beggining Hard work, Dedication and RESEARCH. Rules 1-3 have always worked for my Family.

[don-n-sa]

OK here is my input...I would like a store like "Big Al's" in FL . I went there two years ago and was stunned on its size. I have never seen before or since the amount of drygoods and livestock, it was absolutley amazing. They had at least 25ppl on staff the day I was there ( monday). Some of the staff was knowledgeable, and some were not, but thats understandable. They had a huge area for livestock tanks that were spotless. There live rock was pre cured, and the fisk and iverts were healthy. To put this store in perspective it was about the size of the bottom floor of the bass pro-shop here in SA. It was all dedicated to fresh+saltwater fish, corals , tanks and supplies. I was there on a "slow" day according to the staff but I witnessed atleast 15,000 in sales in about two hours. The bagging stations were incredible...you could watch movies on the flat screens while you waited.

The also had a 5000g circular tank with blacktip reefsharks swimming constantly around...once a week they had public feedings in which customers could help feed the sharks. I bet that brought in some sales!

I have pics that I could post here if anyone wants to see...

[erikharrison]

when a region has to many stores, the buying power is spread out, and we get brown palys instead of purple ones, green mushrooms instead of red w/ metallic flakes. those go to the vendors w/ real buying power. By consolidating the buying power between a few competitive stores, the community benefits by getting better quality livestock made available to them.

Is that how that works? Makes complete and total sense. My boss told me that he used to work in a s/w store. He lives in Cali. He said that the owners would fly to the Phillipiens, have divers go get some fish, and hand pick all of the fish they wanted, have them shipped to the states, and would meet them at the airport. I imagine this is why Ed goes to CA, other than it's an enjoyable write-off?


People here seem to want high quality livestock and quality dry goods, but not want to pay for it.

I think there probably is a term to define people that do this. They haggle with a SMB owner, because the owner is right there, whereas a large corporate store they don't haggle anything because they know they won't get anywhere. I would bet it is hard for LFS owners to repeatedly tell people "no discount" without going bananas. Support your LFS, at least try to buy as many dry goods as you can there, rather than online. If you see something you want, come up with a total price, including shipping, and taxes. Compare this to several virtual stores, then if the price is still less online, show your LFS owner and maybe an agreement can be made, no hard feelings either way. My thought is that this is not a count my pennies hobby. A few dollars more locally could be, and usually is worth it IMO.

[LoneStar]

I have pics that I could post here if anyone wants to see...


Please do :)

And did they have a giant inflatable fish in the parking lot to 'lure' customers inside? :lol

[don-n-sa]

ok...dialup beware!!

[don-n-sa]

I could imagine a store like this at "the rim"...that area is exploding

here we go.

here is the sign out front.

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843045-L.jpg



Here is some pics of full set-ups...yes these prices were outragious, but they had regular set-ups as well.

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843341-M.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844542-M.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844595-M.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844619-M.jpg

[Bill S]

Many years ago, I worked in a large LFS in the northeast. We had over 1000 tanks of fish, and the store was around 5000 square feet, plus warehouse space. We had around 100 tanks of SW - and this was 35 years ago. That being said, our big competitor was about 3 or 4 times our size... They were in an old A & P grocery store.

Fish were break even. Money was made on dry goods, pet supplies, dog grooming and service. Tanks were delivered by the truckload. No discounts - we had a frequent buyer program.

[don-n-sa]

here is the 5000g circular shark tank pics...this is my dreamtank!!!

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843483-M.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843295-M.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843374-L.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844388-L.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844190-L.jpg
http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844168-L.jpg

[don-n-sa]

I have more pics...smugmug is having issues...I will try again in a little while.[/img]

[don-n-sa]

here are some misc. pics...note the bagging station that I was talking about.

Now this store has some buying power!!!

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843460-L.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843407-M.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157843429-L.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844497-L.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844481-L.jpg

http://don-n-sa.smugmug.com/photos/157844301-L.jpg

[AMulwani]

WOW!

[erikharrison]

http://www.livingcolor.com/pop/large_image.cfm?src=img/aquariums/gallery/commercial/16b_lg.jpg

[cpreefguy]

cleeeeeeean!!!

[SA-DSM]

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWW :o :o :o :o

[Richard]

How about a 10,000 sq ft aquatics only store, super clean, really healthy livestock, all the specialty parts you would ever need to plumb up your tank. advise from people who have been installing/maintaining reef tanks for thirty years and are loaded with knowledge, even library room for you to sit down and research the livestock your thinking of buying. Now that's a store that would rock in SA. Oh wait, that was Aquarium Sales & Service and they didn't make it.

IMO, a store that tries to make it on livestock sales in this market will always fail eventually. It either has to offer lots of drygoods (it's the little stuff that pays the bills) but that takes some capital to invest since you have to buy all the stuff before you can sell it. Or it has to be service driven - but you better be good at it because there are some pretty good service guys around that you'll get to compete with for the money tanks. Their not going to try to steal that 55 gallon fish tank you clean once a month but the 30k reef tank in the dominion, yeah their just waitiing for you to screw it up.

Guys, SA is a very small market where shops sell things way below what most other markets do (just go check prices in Dallas). Still people complain about the prices. Pet shops a a bit different from many other businesses. A new restaurant can open and be gone within a few months. Most pet shops will take around 2 - 3 years give or take to fail.

BTW, I went to Moody Gardens this past weekend and that got me reinterested in my 215. So I'm going to order around 50 acros next week. Some of the regular stuff and some stuff that won't be too cheap. All will be offered for sale for a couple of days before I can cherry pick (just a rule we have). I bet I can guess which ones I'll be taking home...but your welcome to prove me wrong.

[cpreefguy]

What day next week? :innocent

[theedprado]

I would be happy to match these prices. $17,500 for a 270 gal. I will also through in a bunch of fake corals too. I also have a bridge on the Northwest side if anyone is intrested. Fact is a 265 gallon tank only costs about $1000.

I have never personally been to this store but if you know me you know that this store represents the anti-Ed. We exist because of errors "big stores" make. It has been my experience that the bigger the store the worse the customer service. We constantly have people complaning about larger stores, and the mis-information they provide. I cant count how many customers that have come in wondering why their corals began to disapear after purchasing a chocolate chip starfish from one of the larger stores in town. Or wondering why they still have nitrates in their tank after being sold a "wet dry" at a larger store. In my opinion 95% of the dry items sold at fish stores is worthless. If I don't use it I wont sell it, and shame on other stores if they do. Fact is that all of the livestock comes from the same ocean, and bigger does not always mean better.

Do I think that this city could support another store? No, even good stores with informed employees are folding due to competition with each other and online vendors. This hobby relies on new blood, and local fish stores are the first stop for newbies. If you were just learning would you want to get your information from a high school kid with a goldfish working at a large store, or the owner of a store who maintains all of the tanks? Go to Sea World to see the big fish, go to your LFS to get that special item for your 55.

[urban79]

GO Ed!!!!!! GO ED!!!!!! GO ED!!!!!!!!

[jroescher]

If The Neptune is $25,900 (163 gal?), I can't imagine what they sell the 5000 gal cylinder tank for.


Starts at $25,900.....livestock must be extra.

[dshawls]

ed, i hope you are around forever, even after i have left san antonio. really nice enviroment, pretty close to my house, free food sometimes... cant really beat that. i hope your payday comes soon :)

[don-n-sa]

Hey I am just putting whats on my wishlist for SA. Yes those tanks I posted are waay overpriced , but they had regular ones as well. Don't get me wrong , I love our stores in SA and Richard and Ed's are at the top of my short list.

Yes, San Antonio is a small market, but it has been exploding for years and the area at the rim is almost like another planet. If there was a "Big Al's " (OR SOMETHING LIKE IT) at the rim it would make a killing. If you haven't ben there lately, go check the area near the new Tiago's/ Habaneros and you will see what I am talking about.

Big Al's have been around for over 30 years and they are growing ( 20 locations), I would not be surprised if a large "superstore" makes it here. I would like for someone to beat them to it though...How about Richard, Ed, Feiple&Sarah, and Jason go in on a Mutil-million dollar "superstore"????

:D

[Richard]

What day next week? :innocent

See HERE (http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=245364#24 5364)

[caferacermike]

Yes, San Antonio is a small market, but it has been exploding for years and the area at the rim is almost like another planet. If there was a "Big Al's " (OR SOMETHING LIKE IT) at the rim it would make a killing. If you haven't ben there lately, go check the area near the new Tiago's/ Habaneros and you will see what I am talking about.

:D

I'm hoping I'm thinking your idea of the rim is my idea of the 1604 loop back around Huebner.

I know that I gasp every time I see that bike shop over there. What is it called, Cycle World or something like that? I have a special kind of weakness for bicycles. For that type of specialty shop to be so gorgeous and full of top notch special order bicycles than that area could support most any type of specialty shop. Those same people that drop $6,000 on a bicycle (myself included), would easily drop $10,000 or more on a tank (myself included). Not to mention the twice monthly trips I've been making to SA since I got my 400g tank, I certainly would shop there.

[Ram_Puppy]

Mike, I agree that would be a great place for a shop, but Blanco & 1604 would be better, or in Stone Oak maybe... that heubner area is just hard to get to and get out of becuase there are very few shops that generate foot traffic there. at least on blanco or stone oak pkwy you would have an insane amount of traffic around every day.

If I was opening a store, iwould try for one of those locations.

Also, when I said big store, I did not mean big al's big... I would always want a store like CB pets, where richard or mark is always available to me for questions. Course... if I opened a store I would have to invest in CB pets, and merge the companies, and that would mean I had won the lotto, so you guys would have to wait while I cruised around the world and went to fantastic places for about a year or so. :)

[Bill S]

I tried to get Louis to move to 281 & Encino Rio...

[caferacermike]

Cool I just said Huebner cause it was all I could think of. Stone Oaks does sound like a better more up to date area, honestly after driving an hour and a half to get there in the first place (hint Austin) 10 minutes from Huebner to Stone Oaks, they might as well be the same place. I understand those that live there probably think they are counties apart. And to be honest, that was the area I was thinking of, just got it mixed up cause I'm not from round there.

[Richard]

Have you checked on what the rent is in stone oak? :innocent

[alteredego]

stone oak is $$$$$$$$$

[brewercm]

Have you checked on what the rent is in stone oak? :innocent

Yep and everything there is rediculously priced compared to the same item somewhere else in town. I've gone into the Cigar shop there and they are even higher than the Club Humidor at The Quary (and I didn't think that was possible).

Mike,
Are you talking about the new Bike shop on 1604 I think between Bitters and Huebner. Very nice looking place and lots of other very high $$ places around it. I know they opened a new Paesanos (sp) and Silo right in that area also.

[AMulwani]

The RIM is always packed with cars too. Rent there might be insane, but the income braket in the area is over 100k. Alhough I have been visiting the LFS and they all have their own special charm.

[alton]

THE RIM FISH STORE NOW OPEN FEATURING: Small Yellow Tangs $60, Purple $100. Special on Salt Oceanic $60, Reef Crystals $100. I think everyone can see where this is going, your high rent would mean high prices.

[Bill S]

The space at 281 & Encino Rio has been empty since it was built 4 years ago. And now that there's a Salvation Army store in front of it...

[Ram_Puppy]

Stone oak is expensive, without a doubt.

oh, mike, as an austinite, something you may not know, is that huebner kind of 'dissapears' bymerging w/ blanco road south of 1604, but NORTH of 1604, huebner re-appears, right behind stone oak. lol.. so - technically, youre not far off, maybe a minute or so! ;)

You know, I don't think location is everything, i mean, it's a lot, obviously if i opened a shop nestled at the back of oh... say danburry, then maybe 1 or 2 people on the forum would know where it is.

BUT, if i opened a shop off 1604, even if it was hard to get to, and invested in some high quality signage that grabbed peoples attention while languishing in rush hour traffic... it might still be worth it. heck, I would happily get off the road and go to a fish store on my way home every single frickin day if it gave me an excuse not to stop/go for 30 minutes.

[alteredego]

I looked at a location over by alamo drafthouse. the rent is cheap, big parking lot, lots of traffic. I dont know about the rim, that's way out of the price range of a newly opened store. Thats the kinda place you strive to move an established buisness to. So far livestock could be sold near the price ranges of saltwaterfish.com prices, but like it has been said it's dry goods that pay the bills. I'm working at getting some suppliers of sorts. Thank you all for your comments and ideas. list any other ideas you have. I've lived in this city for near 30years and like everyone else that lives here for a long time has a favorite part of it, I have a hard time seperating that from a sound judgement for location.

[brewercm]

I don't know what the regular public is geographically that you can go off of. If you were to base it off of the locations that most members here list as their geographic location I'd say stay in the NC part of town if at all possible. There tends to be a lot of NE and NW people on this site. Then of course a few of us NC people who'd have a really close fish store, although CB is only about a 10 to 15 minute drive for me anyways.

[AMulwani]

The RIM fish store, where is it?by target? or in the pro shop?

[erikharrison]

Scott, that would be a good area, but being there you would definitely need alot of dry goods and probably a theme styled place, something with originality. You have to keep them coming there because it is only a matter of time before a chain store comes in. Polly's Pets holds it's own due to this reason. The forum came though, and I am sure it hurt! If you can maintain for the short while, that area will become more developed and you would have a great shot at it. I'll come visit! Oh yeah, the lion died, so I need another one, open up shop bud!

[wesheltonj]

Stone oak forget it, its a parking lot. IH 10 is there to be, you might try in leon springs behind the HEB there a old shopping center (maybe low rents) I have been look to build a building for my law office on IH 10, but with land price starting at $20 per SF, it tuff.