Closed Toadstool Leather w-Red Algae and White Spots

[meixner55]

I’m looking for some MAASTer advice about my closed Toadstool Leather. It’s been closed for about 8 days now. :( It’s about 3” in size when closed, but would normally open to about 6 – 7”. I am attaching a picture, which I hope will show the red algae that has started to appear along its edges in the past 3 days . I also see a couple of very small white spots on it, but I can’t tell if the spots are on the surface, or indentations into the leather.

I’ve had the leather for about 6 weeks. During that time, I’ve noticed 2 sloughing events (discard of the top clear layer). Its polyps would normally extend with lights on and would retract at night. It has 2 very long sweeper tentacles (approximately 18” long). These tentacles still extend every night, even though the leather is closed.

The water parameters are:
.... Temp 80
.... Salinity 1.023
.... pH 8.2 – 8.3
.... Nitrate 2.5
.... Ammonia 0
.... Nitrite 0
.... Calcium 500
.... Phosphates near zero, but my test kit isn’t very easy to read

I make my own RO/DI water. I add salt, buffer and Essential Elements before changing water. I use buffered RO/DI to top off. I also dose with B-Ionic, Iron, and Coral-Vite. Based on LFS recommendation, I added Iodine yesterday.

My setup includes the 125g tank with a nearly 30g sump (including refugium). I use mostly T5 lighting (450w). I have about 160+ pounds of LR.

Other tank occupants include:

........ FISH............................... CORAL (all well separated):
3” Regal Tang.................... .Toadstool Leather
2” Powder Blue Tang...........Several Zoanthids
2” Dwarf Bi-Color Angel.......Button Polyps
2” Lyretail Anthias (x3)........Mushrooms
.............................................Frogs pawn
Cleanup Crew: Snails, Hermit crabs, and 2 cleaner shrimp

I hope this is enough info to give a clear picture of the tank environment as it relates to the leather. I’m a newbie, so any advice is welcome. Thanks.

[reefingood]

I never experienced red looking algae on my leather before but once they closed up for almost 2 weeks. Drooling with liquidy white stuff. But i managed to clean it with my powerheads. After a while tentacles came back and it's been healthy since.

- Frank

[erikharrison]

my question is why nitrates are in there at all. how deep is your sandbed? do you feed alot?

[meixner55]

Sandbed is at least 2-3" deep, more in some portions of the tank. I feed small amounts of flake food 2x day, plus frozen food once a day. I thought the Nitrates were pretty good. ??

[josephatmbimortgage]

My next question is why keep salinity so low, Me and alot of other keep it at 1.025-1.026 and things bloom bigger. Use Turkey baster to push water right at it to get it off then do a water change to be safe.

-Joseph

[DaBird47]

I agree with the turkey baster, keep it blown off and keep up with water changes and it will be fine an awhile...

[meixner55]

I've been using a turkey baster regularly to keep it blown off. So, you think it's just a matter of time? I can be patient if that's the answer.

[josephatmbimortgage]

How much current do you have in your tank? Enought to push med water flow from left to right in a circular motion?

-J

[DaBird47]

I have med water flow and I aim my returns directly at each other for a nice random flow pattern...

[meixner55]

1200gph return, plus 1800gph closed loop -- both should be reduced for about 4-5 feet of head pressure.
It's not as much as I thought I would have with these 2 pumps. How much is really enough?

[josephatmbimortgage]

I know what you mean when you said you expect more from them. Same issue so I got me a Seio 2600 and set it up like tunze, and two hydor koralise #4. Still waiting on the hydor but my tunze 6025 is shooting at the acros and the seio is on the opposite side blasting across the tank. GREAT current but I want more lol . When the hydor comes in then I'll be very happy. Current maybe the issue for you. I have 135 gallon.

-J

[Texreefer]

i agree with most of what was said however you did not state you alkalinity and with calcium at 500 i bet your system is way out of balance and your leather is not liking the fact that you alk is so low test for alk and see what you get

[Texreefer]

"I added Iodine yesterday."
be careful how much of this you add,, IMO all you need is regular water changes to replace iodine i have never had to add iodine to my systems

[apedroza]

I agree with TEX. Test your alk. Your salinity is OK and isnt high IMO. I keep mine at 1.022. Water changes will help reduce your nitrates and help replenish lost elements.

[Headless_donkey]

We have several toadstools and they are sensitive to change. The good news is they will stay alive and come back around. I would clean off the red slime with your hand or move it to a place with higher flow. If the flesh is still firm you are ok, but if it is limp then I would take it out of the tank. I also don't think your salinity is isn't high especially if you are focusing on fish and water changes are the best way to replace missing elements. Our other leathers "perk-up" the day after a water change. My understanding is it is easy to over does iodine.

[meixner55]

I just installed two MaxiJet 1200 powerheads into the display tank. Flow is much improved. Unfortunately, that was the one thing I wanted to avoid -- equipment in the display area. Oh well. If the added flow improves the environment, I'll be happy. The leather is still firm and isn't dropping over, but there were more red spots on it than yesterday. I used a soft toothbrush in an attempt to lightly remove them. Unfortunately, it didn't do too much good. Thanks for all the suggestions. I won't dose the iodine again for a good while. I'm counting on the hardiness of leathers ! ! I'll post again when the leather's condition changes.

[aggie4231]

1st. Unless you have an extremely high amount of macros or other saltwater plants, you dont really need to dose Iron.

2. I would test your alk, before using buffers. When I used buffers, my alk would test extremely high.

3. Recommend bumping your salinity to 1.025-1.026. This is about as close to natural seawater. 1.025-1.026 equals about 36ppt. This is the salinity of seawater just about everywhere in the world except marshs, some bays, and nearshore non-reef areas.

4. your phosphates are fine. just about every phosphate test kit can get you in the ballpark with your phosphate levels. Hobbyist kits can't test for all types of phosphates.

5. what are you using for your nitrate test kit? as long as you keep your nitrates below 10 ppm, you'll be fine.

it is fine to have some phosphate and nitrate(both at low levels). the zooxanthelle in your corals use both of these for photosynthesis.

6 flow. for most softie and some lps, 10-20x of your tank volume turnover is fine. sps you want higher(some people shot for 60x turnover). the more flow and more random the better. this will help keep algae from showing up in areas where there isn't flow.

[meixner55]

Justin,
1. I have a refugium with chaetomorpha. No other macros are in my setup.
2. I'll have to get an alkalinity test kit. I don't even know what the level should be, but I'm sure the kit will list it. Would an out of whack alkalinity level upset just the leather, while the rest of the corals are thriving? My other corals include xenia, zoas, polyps, frogspawn, and mushrooms.
3. I may raise my salinity to near 1.025, but I don't want to make that change too quickly. I appreciate the ocean comparison.
4. OK.
5. I used to test with an Aquarium Pharaceuticals kit, but I just bought a kit made by Nutrfin. The first color-code shows a Nitrate level of 5, but I don't think my test results were even that dark, so I estimated it to be 1/2 of 5, or 2.5. I know there's some estimating in there, but the point is that my Nitrate levels are very low.
6. After adding 2 new powerheads today, I now have over 5000gph turnover of water for my 125g tank. So... that gives me about 40x my tank volume. That should be good enough for my softies.
Thanks for your overall advice.

[meixner55]

Yesterday I said I needed to buy an Alkalinity test kit. Well... I just realized that my kH test is an alkalinity test. :o The bad news is that the kH levels are high -- about 219 ppm. If I understand correctly, the kH affects the pH and the Calcium. And, as best as I can read the color coded chart, the pH has been stable at 8.2 - 8.3.

The calcium levels have remained high... over 500.

So -- besides water changes, what should I do to lower the kH? And, if I lower the kH, will I be risking a bad pH?

Also, should I worry about high Calcium levels?

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. :unsure

My leather still looks the same. It's closed 24x7, but with sweeper tentacles extended every night. I'm taking that as a good sign.

[aggie4231]

does the kH test read out in other units? normally you want to shoot for around 9-10 dkh for alkalinity. also, test for magnesium(sp?). you it to be around 1300 ppm. Mag will help stablize all other levels. I would retest your alk and CA tomorrow or Thursday. This will help you figure out what your normal usage is. When you figure this out, you can then use a two-part additive for Ca&alk. I know that when you have a hard time maintaing stable pH, some people use kalk in their top-off water. This helps stablize pH which will then help stablize other levels. Also, when you alk is stable at proper levels, phosphates will become easier to filter out.

[josephatmbimortgage]

Just relax and let everything settle and don't add anymore supplements. Maybe the tank is trying to fix it's self so wait a week and do all the testing.

-Joseph

[meixner55]

Thanks.
I rechecked my alkalinity today. dKH is 11, which translates into 196.9 ppm KH.
Can't test magnesium -- will have to get a test kit for that.
I'll retest everything in a few days to see if anything changes.

[meixner55]

Update:
Toadstool mushroom slumped over on Friday night, but then it started shedding its clear, top layer (including the red algae looking stuff) and most of its little extensions have come out. I'm worried because it is slumped over, but hopeful with the tiny polyp-like extensions out. Is the leather likely to recover after slumping over? I can send pictures later if that will help.

My alkalinity is going down slowly because I'm not adding any more supplements -- even during top-off. The dKH has dropped a couple of points since last week -- down from 12 to 10. At some point, I'll have to resume supplements (right?), so it appears I'll need to adjust the dosing amount.

Any new suggestions or recommendations for my leather?
Thanks again!

[DaBird47]

How are things today?

[meixner55]

The leather is finally back to normal :D , standing tall with its polyps extended. It's been looking better and better since I last wrote -- and it finally looks good. Thanks for everyone's help! !