sand bed

[txstateunivreefer]

so now i have this dsb and need some critters to stir it i already have a sandsifting star and a goby what other reccomendations can yall offer its a 72 bow w/ 4" all around i also put my rocks pretty close to on the glass due to the goby's tendency to make alot of tunnels

[txstateunivreefer]

hmm i thought you needed ctitters to stir the sand around is that false?

[demodiki]

The sand sifting star eats some of the beneficial critters in the sandbed. They can quickly deplete the sandbed of these good critters. I would get a serpent star instead. I have a tongan fighting conch. Neat little guy and moves the sand. You could probably use a couple of those.

[txstateunivreefer]

alrighty i guess i will do away with him back to the dome they buy all the stuff i dont want/need anymore ill take him in and my monster maroon clown

[cbianco]

Nassarius snails will help to move your sand bed!

Christopher

[txstateunivreefer]

ill try to find some somewhere
maybe the dome has some that they will trade for the star howmany should i get

[cbianco]

ill try to find some somewhere
maybe the dome has some that they will trade for the star howmany should i get

It depends on the size. There are two common types of nassarius snails, Vibex (small) and the Super (large). For your 72, I would start off with 12 small or 6 large and work my way up from there, whats another trip to LFS :P .

Christopher

[txstateunivreefer]

well is that all i should put in there is vibex and a fighting conch

[cbianco]

well is that all i should put in there is vibex and a fighting conch

As far as the sandbed goes, your choices are a good start. You could still add a sea star, you just would have to research your choices a bit.

Linkias (i.e. blue/red) - I personally like the linkias but they are risky. They have a very high mortality rate.

Serpents - The serpents come in various colors. Unfortunately, they are noctornal creatures and may hide during the day.

Brittles - They are good at eating detritus but again they are noctornal for the most part.

Stay away from the chocolate chip/knobby/sand sifting sea stars. The seem to be detrimental to a reef aquarium.

Christopher

[jroescher]

I've never seen my Linkias, Serpents or Brittles on the sand. The live up in the rocks. The linkias will occasionally climb the glass, and sometimes the serpents and brittles will send a tentacle out to pick up a piece of food from the sand, but it's usually only a larger piece of food.

I have 3 tiger tail cucumbers that move a lot of sand, but usually only at night. They make huge piles of ... how do I say this... clean sand.

[cbianco]

When I still had my Linkia, he spent plenty of time on the sand as well as the glass.

I wasn't sure if txstate had his heart set on a sea star, so I was trying to provide a few safe options for him.

Christopher

[matt]

What you want in your sand is a colony of animals, some visible, some microscopic, that will eat bacteria off the sand, thus "moving" the sand around and creating area for new bacteria to grow. What you don't want is an animal that eats the smaller sand bed animals you're relying on. Certain species of starfish are legendary for destroying sand bed fauna; you'll have to do some research on which ones are the worst. Fighting conches and nassarius snails are examples of "good" sand bed animals that eat bacteria (maybe cyanobacteria too) but not other animals. Bristleworms are great for a sand bed.

Josh's link to IPSF is really valuable, and there's another place call inland aquatics that sells excellent "invert sand" that is loaded with beneficial fauna. You could start with some of that, and get extra bristleworms, a few nassarius snails, and you'll probably have a good sand bed population.

[txstateunivreefer]

ok so i understand the need of tiny critters but i thought that aragonite will slowly get bonded together by bacteria unless you had large organisms moving thru the sand

[txstateunivreefer]

ok so after all of those suggestions i am extremely confused ive read that aragonite will bond together with the help of bacteria and that critters big or small were needed to stir the bed what would be the best solution and the best for the job i have seen joroeschers tank and he has a sand star and his bed is very alive and denitrifying however i would like to get some pods going in there it wont be my only source since i am adding on a fuge to feed the scooter manderin and sand sifting goby i also dont want to have a brick in the bottom of my tank

[Ping]

Matt and Joshua are correct. Not that they needed me to say this ;) . For long term success with a deep sand bed (DSB), large sand sifters will work, e.g. Gobies, Starfish, and Hermit crabs. They work quickly at cleaning and keeping the sand bed clean and loose. However, they will decimate the micro life forms in a sand bed. The types of sand sifters / cleaners put into a tank are dependent on what the final goal of the tank is. If SPS are the goal or even a possibility, "I" would aim at keeping the micro life in the sand bed alive and recharged annually. Recharged, because the life forms will lose diversity with time.

Another way to help establish and recharge a sand bed is to place freshly cured / cooked liverock on your sand. A deep sand bed can be very effective if properly maintained. Patience is the key. The cycles our tanks go through will be more obvious, “stuff on our sand”. Given time, the micro life will clean the sand, keep if friable and provide Zooplankton for Coral consumption.

DSB’s are set up for our Corals, not for the Fish. The goals of a DSB are feeding the Polyps, denitrification, and the dissolution of aragonite to help maintain calcium and alkalinity. Large life forms interfering with the micro sand bed life will negate some of these benefits. The larger life forms, however appealing they may be as both pets and quick cleaners are not necessarily a good thing for a reef type setup. Their consumption of micro life and possible disturbance of the anaerobic layering may be detrimental.

[cbianco]

...ok so after all of those suggestions i am extremely confused...

Welcome to the world of reefkeeping, lol. Everyone has their own philosophy, many ideas overlap and some don't.

Is there anything specific that you need clearification on? We are here to help buddy!

Did you take a look at IPSF? They have quite a few neat critters for the sandbed. I'm thinking about ordering now!

Christopher :)

[Ping]

AAARRRRR Joshua, I forgot you are true Berlin guy :lol

Even true Berliners are going with fuges, and many have a remote DSB. :angel

[don-n-sa]

LOL...here we go again :roll

how about this....

Instead of having a DSB that you can't touch, stir, clean or put certain critters in it, how about having SHALLOW sand bed???

This way you can do what ever you want and keep it clean and white. You can stir it, clean it, change it out, put WHATEVER star you want in it...IMO a tank without any sand just doesn't look good...just does not reflect the light back up. Of course there will always be folks that say their way is the only way, its just not true, there is no only way to have a successful reef. Just read the "the 50 ultimate reef aquaruims" and you will see there are many ways.

I have always had sand beds in my tanks and they are always clean, white and when I upgrade and move the sandbed to another tank it always smells like fresh seawater.

[txstateunivreefer]

well since i dont have or plan on having an huge fish load i think i am gonna go ahead and get rid of the sand star because if he is eating all of the food for my coral then that could pose problems however i have zoos shrooms xenia kenya tree toadstool monti cap rics and thats close to about it i dont know if that is a big deal for the corals or not but i think im gonna go with some snails instead i already have the serpent star and most of the million bristle worms that were in the sand when i bought it were ripped to shreds by my CB shrimp and SL wrasse i will also most likely wait to charge the system with some of the products mentioned til i have my fuge built and installed so that they can florish in many places but with just those snails and possibly a conch in the tank that should be enough with my serpent star to keep it stirred somewhat and also keep the surface clean

[jroescher]

tx, I'll agree that the sand star in my tank is probably not a really good idea, along with a few other items. I have to balance what goes in my tank with what the wife and daughter bring home, what I want in my tank, what I know is good in my tank, and a few things that I just like, whether they are good or bad.

That huge hermit crab in the fuge is another example. My daughter bought that for me because she liked it, the LFS told her it was an excellent reef animal, and then I watched it feast on everything as long as I could stand it. Then he was banished to the fuge.

As long as the family stays so interested and involved in it, I get to spend money on it.

I like my sand sifting star though, and he'll stay until it becomes a problem and then he too will have to find a new home.