Anybody trying the Blue Coral feeding method?

[acrofreak]

Anybody here trying the Blue Coral Method of feeding coral?

I'm doing it now, 4wks, once a week. Fantastic results.

[discuspro]

Can you explain the Blue Coral Method?

[caferacermike]

Um yeah please.

[SoLiD]

ditto...

[Shark_Bait]

Blue Coral isn't that car wax?

[hobogato]

are you talking about the method that they mention in the italian tank thread on RC?

[Texreefer]

Yea Ace, and fairly expensive as well,, basically adding amino acids to enhance growth and color...Kind of like a body builder on steroids... can get to the same results with time but the steroids speed up the process.. not trying to start an argument or say one way is wrong ,, just my opinion

[blueboy]

yeah, i stumbled across something about this the other night. they use Human Growth Hormone. sounds kind of weird, but they sure had some great looking tanks.

[caferacermike]

Now I do add Seachem Plus which is an amino acid based supplement. It makes my skimmer go nuts. I've seen those reef roids that some shops sell for REAL LIVE money but do to the expense I haven't tried them.

[hobogato]

i was keeping up with that thread for quite a while - some of those italian tanks are using the blue method with HGH and some without. most of them are very well established tanks that have been together for a long time. if you look at some other threads there, someone talks about the actual amino acids and the type of HGH they are using and where/how to get them legally here. that is just a little across the line for me :)

[JeffCo]

Ive been reading that thread too. Pretty interesting. But, I think now they are focusing on a specific feeding regime and keeping specific tank params: calcium, alk, mag.

Some are using it without the HGH stuff and having great results.

[lido]

Here you go...



This recipe here was physically given to me by Bisck of ReefItalia when visited his tank in Florence last month. This is the backbone of the Blu Coral method--and it is not necessary to use the HGH. Only a few tanks over there are even using HGH and the second anyone mentions some type of steroid or growth enhancement, it of course gets dwelled upon (think Barry Bonds, McGwire, etc.)

“Pappone” Recipe – Italian Coral Food (Updated 1/14/2007)

Materials:
5 Oysters
5 Mussels
5 Clams
5 Shrimp (NOT cocktail shrimp, the big scampi type w/o the head and the shell)
1 Tablespoon of Sugar (not corn syrup, etc.)
200 mL of RO/DI water
10 g of Red Algae (Palmaria palmata; Bisck uses Julian Sprung's brand)
and/or 10 g of Spirulina, 10 g of Nori (spirulina is what Bisck prefers)

Methods: Make SURE that all ingredients are the freshest possible and DO NOT use frozen foods (unless it is impossible for you). Make sure everything "live" is rinsed and cleaned before putting it into the blender. Put all the ingredients into the blender and blend for 5 min, wait 2 min for it to cool, 5 more min blending, 2 min of waiting again, then finally another 5 min of blending (the pausing is so that the solution doesn't get too hot and "cook" from the heat of the blender/blades). Pour into cube forms (approx 10 mL each). Then freeze it all—you want to minimize how long everything is at room temperature.

Procedure: One hour prior to turning off your lights, you have the option of adding Amino acids to the tank*. (For example, 11pm Halides off, add AA’s, 12am, actinics off, then add pappone). Take off the cup of your skimmer, but leave the skimmer running (so you don’t have a massive drop in O2 levels overnight). After the lights are off, start with only a ¼ of a cube per WEEK for every 400 L of tank water (approx 100 gallons). Be sure to measure NO3 and PO4 the next morning so that these parameters don't spike after feeding. You can reduce the amount fed if you are having nutrient problems. Also don’t forget to put the skimmer cup back on the next morning before the lights go back on.

*If everything is going well. It is good to wait and see how the tank is doing for awhile before trying this. The whole point here is that you don't want to change anything too fast, because nothing good happens quickly in this hobby. (Another method to grind up amino acid pills in the next batch of food; however Bisck found that it sometimes causes diatom outbreaks in his tank).

[SueT]

I have just started this feeding regime. In fact Robert came down to visit and brought me a pack to try. I have only fed 2 times now but the results are simply amazing. It has the clam, oyster, mussel and shrimp, glutamine and sugar. I don't believe this batch has any of the veggies. It is minced and poured into a fish food tray and frozen. I am amazed at the results. Increased growth and colors have been good but the growth is what has me shocked. I am using Reef Plus for the amino acid 1-2 hours before feeding. Skimmer cup off for the night...

[acrofreak]

I've have now been doing this for 5 weeks. WOW is all I can say. The colors are great and the growth is outstanding. The Italians (very few) that used the HGH used it because it breaks down into usable amino acids. I am using L Glutamine which is a free form amino acid. That's what helps the corals to use CA. and ALk. more efficiently. The steroids themselves have nothing to do with the growth. You can use L Glutamin, Aspratic Acid, Reefplus or any other type of AA's. As long the they don't have a bunch of other crap in it.
You can also do it without gln. They have found out that the recipe itself will give you good results. Using "fresh" shell fish in the amounts as stated above, NO SUBSTITUTIONS PERIOD. No frozen foods, unless you cannot get fresh.
I feed 10ml a week and use ReefPlus once a week in between. Just keep an eye on n03 and p04 levels. Feed at lights out, add AA's an hour before lights out. Either take your skimmer cup off or adjust it so it can't skim into the cup. Leave it off all night and put it back on before lights come back on or in morning.
Keep your perimeters up to natural sea water levels. If your a able to raise the to saturation levels that would be good to. CA. 500, ALK. 11-12 and MG. 1500 but not necessary.

This feeding method is not about the HGH. The recipe is high in protiens and far cheaper than any coral foods or fish foods you can buy at the lfs.
I spent about 20.00 for everything including the gln.
Start out slowly and allow your corals and system to adjust to the feedings.

If you follow the recipe, don't over feed, you will have good results. People with lps tanks are saying they are getting great results also.

I started this thread and have never recieved any replies. Didn't know anyone had responded to it.

[Bill S]

Let me tell you what I have a problem with. This insane insistance that everything be "fresh". The quality of properly FROZEN seafood is far, far superior to that sold as "fresh". ESPECIALLY since part of the prep for this is FREEZING - if part of this process is some kind of importance in preserving the cell wall of the foods, that would be one thing, but if you are going to freeze it anyway... Ever wonder why sushi resturants nearly NEVER serve "fresh" seafood? It's because the QC on the fish, when frozen, is so much higher. Just my $0.02.

[acrofreak]

Let me tell you what I have a problem with. This insane insistance that everything be "fresh". The quality of properly FROZEN seafood is far, far superior to that sold as "fresh". ESPECIALLY since part of the prep for this is FREEZING - if part of this process is some kind of importance in preserving the cell wall of the foods, that would be one thing, but if you are going to freeze it anyway... Ever wonder why sushi resturants nearly NEVER serve "fresh" seafood? It's because the QC on the fish, when frozen, is so much higher. Just my $0.02.

In this recipe, it is in this case "LIVE" shell fish. Clams, mussel, oysters, the only thing not live is the shrimp and it needs to be as FRESH AS POSSIBLE. Everything I bought other than the shrimp was live. That is what they are meaning as fresh in this case. There is no fish such as tuna or grouper or what have you. You want it to be a fresh as possible due to the fact that the protiens start to break down over time and the protiens are where its at in this case. IF you follow the recipe as the Italians have stated it works. They highly urge anyone doing this method not to veer from the recipe. They've been doing this for several years with great success and their tank show it. Most of them have been up and running for 4-5 yrs and they are probably the most incredible tank I've seen.....

Check it out.....http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=971190&goto=newpost

[Bill S]

"You want it to be a fresh as possible due to the fact that the protiens start to break down over time and the protiens are where its at in this case."

I'm sorry, but this is just plain 100% untrue.

If this were the aim, you would be so, so much better using frozen. If you think those HEB clams, mussels and oysters are "fresh", you are mistaken. Mussels have a shellf life of 48-72 hours. Have you ever eaten mussels you pulled off of the jetty yourself and compared them? Store and resturant mussels are nasty. And, before you continue to argue with me on this point, you might want to know that I'm a molecular biologist...

[acrofreak]

Let me tell you what I have a problem with. This insane insistance that everything be "fresh". The quality of properly FROZEN seafood is far, far superior to that sold as "fresh". ESPECIALLY since part of the prep for this is FREEZING - if part of this process is some kind of importance in preserving the cell wall of the foods, that would be one thing, but if you are going to freeze it anyway... Ever wonder why sushi resturants nearly NEVER serve "fresh" seafood? It's because the QC on the fish, when frozen, is so much higher. Just my $0.02.

In this case fresh means "live" shellfish, clam, oyters, mussels and the freshest shrimp you can buy. Everything I bought was live except the shrimp. There is no fish such as tuna or grouper or what have ya. The preserving of the cell wall is exactly what they stating. If it is frozen the protiens start to break down and that is what you are trying to prevent. I'm no scientist so I can't explain how all this works. Some of the people who are doing this are marine biologist and chemical engineer ect. They have been doing this method of feeding for several years and are getting to release a study on all the ends and outs. What amino acids work the best, what dosages and why.
They have probably the nicest acro/sps tank I've seen.

check it out.. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=971190&perpage=25&pagen umber=1

[acrofreak]

"You want it to be a fresh as possible due to the fact that the protiens start to break down over time and the protiens are where its at in this case."

I'm sorry, but this is just plain 100% untrue.

If this were the aim, you would be so, so much better using frozen. If you think those HEB clams, mussels and oysters are "fresh", you are mistaken. Mussels have a shellf life of 48-72 hours. Have you ever eaten mussels you pulled off of the jetty yourself and compared them? Store and resturant mussels are nasty. And, before you continue to argue with me on this point, you might want to know that I'm a molecular biologist...

Argue!! Who's arguing here. I'm just stating what the Blue Coral method is according to what the Italians are duing here. That's IT. The shellfish I bought had been shipped in from the day before and were still alive. That's all I know. I'm not a molecular biologist I'm just an ol blue collar boy. Machinist and welder. I'm not even going to try to pretend I know anything about biology, science or anything else. I just know it works for me and many others so you need to climb down off your high horse here cause I'm not trying to debate or argue with you or anyone else here.

[cpreefguy]

Those Italian tanks are amazing! It always seems like Europeans are years ahead in technology and pretty advanced in their methods. I like browsing the zeovit forum's gallery page, some amazing tanks there...

[Bill S]

"Pour into cube forms (approx 10 mL each). Then freeze it all—you want to minimize how long everything is at room temperature."

"If it is frozen the protiens start to break down"

I'm not on a "high horse" - if you think so, it because you're being defensive. YOU were the one that spouted the "protiens (sic) start to break down", which ISN'T in what you quoted from RC - it was your take on what you read or thought you read.

It's obvious that's I'm wasting my time with you, because you can't keep your story straight. Next time you try and quote something "scientific", have your "facts" straight. How would you react if I started telling you how to weld? Think about that. I'll drop off of this thread.

Oh yeah, and one of the smartest guys I know uses the "...I'm just a dumb welder..." line all the time.

[cpreefguy]

Nobody is wrong. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Lets move on with the thread or it will be locked

[acrofreak]

Nobody is wrong. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Lets move on with the thread or it will be locked

Sorry about that, just trying to pass on some info. for coral feeding. Don't really want to argue here.

[cpreefguy]

No worries.
I think its a pretty interesting method. That one post where it showed a before and after after only a 10 month period was amazing. Ive always wanted to try zeovit but its expensive and seems like it requires alot of dedication.

What method(s) do you use if any?

[acrofreak]

No worries.
I think its a pretty interesting method. That one post where it showed a before and after after only a 10 month period was amazing. Ive always wanted to try zeovit but its expensive and seems like it requires alot of dedication.

What method(s) do you use if any?

I'm doing the recipe above without the spirulina and nori. Just the shellfish. I used one 500mg capsule of L Glutamine in with the recipe. Poured it in some fish food trays which are about 10ml. I dose with Reefplus an hour or so before lights out remove the skimmer cup, lower the water level in the skimmer so it can't overflow. Feed when lights go out. Put the cup on next morning.

I'll post a few pics of about a week before I started up till now. It works far better than anything I've used in the past. I've been using one cube per feeding once a week but think I'm going to lower the size of the cube to half and start feeding twice a week. I've had great results.

Several of the guys in Italy were using Zeovit and stopped, said they are getting better colors without. And a whole lot cheaper, cheaper is better...

[Texreefer]

That recipe is strangely similar to the Homade coral ration in Eric Bornemans book 'Aquarium Corals'.. there is nothing new or mystical about it.. its simple feeding your corals lots of protein and amino acids

[acrofreak]

That recipe is strangely similar to the Homade coral ration in Eric Bornemans book 'Aquarium Corals'.. there is nothing new or mystical about it.. its simple feeding your corals lots of protein and amino acids
True, the main difference is what kind of AA's. There will be a study paper out soon from ReefItalia which will give the results of what AA's work the best, how much and why. They've been doing research on it for around 8 yrs. Magic bullet maybe not, super growth syrum maybe. Does it work? Does for me.....

Until the paper is published they won't give any real specifics, just hints.

[Richard]

I will be interested to see what the paper says and if it is a scientific paper/research in any way.

According to the article below, corals are more capable of synthesizing amino acids than we are. Most of the amino acids that are essential (must be obtained from diet) for us and most other animals can be synthesized by corals, that is they can make them themselves. Basically, just give them some protein and they'll do the rest is the way I read it. So it doesn't seem likely to me that specific amino acids are going to be the reason for the growth.

I'm not saying their recipe doesn't work, just that I am skeptical of that rational.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1218179&blobtype=pdf

[SueT]

for as long as I have kept sps corals, using one method or another, this is by fast the best response I've seen in my corals. I've tried the ecosystem when it was just starting out, miracle mud, I've done the no skimmer and now I have given this a try and by far in only 2 weeks of useage, this is by far the best I've ever seen. Totally noticeable, appreciable growth.

[JeffCo]

Anybody have a good source for this Fresh seafood in the SA area?

[acrofreak]

Anybody have a good source for this Fresh seafood in the SA area?

Do you guys have a Market Street in SA area? That's where I got mine, in the DFW area. The seafood counter is awesome. All the shell fish was alive, had just been shipped in the day before from Virginia.

[Texreefer]

So what source of amino acids are you using?

[acrofreak]

So what source of amino acids are you using?

L Glutamine free form AA's with B6 by Country Life.

[bureau13]

So, this weekly coral feeding is in addition to the regular fish feeding and/or coral target feeding? Or does this replace all tank feeding (doesn't seem likely at once per week).

jds

[SueT]

yes, this is in addition to your regular fish feedings.

[acrofreak]

yes, this is in addition to your regular fish feedings.

What she said, ^^^^^

[acrofreak]

So, this weekly coral feeding is in addition to the regular fish feeding and/or coral target feeding? Or does this replace all tank feeding (doesn't seem likely at once per week).

jds

If you feed this recipe, "papone" you may not want to do any coral target feeding. It is very high in protiens.

[hobogato]

L Glutamine free form AA's with B6 by Country Life.

where are you buying this, and how much are using when you dose the tank (your tank size also for comparison)

[bureau13]

Even for animals like sun corals? I've always heard that they need "meaty" foods...if this would work without any extra effort I'm definitely in!

jds



So, this weekly coral feeding is in addition to the regular fish feeding and/or coral target feeding? Or does this replace all tank feeding (doesn't seem likely at once per week).

jds

If you feed this recipe, "papone" you may not want to do any coral target feeding. It is very high in protiens.

[SueT]

The blended mixture might be too pureed to do any good for sun corals. I know they love cyclop-eeze, mysis shrimp but this is mostly liquid form.

[acrofreak]

L Glutamine free form AA's with B6 by Country Life.

where are you buying this, and how much are using when you dose the tank (your tank size also for comparison)

Health food store, here in Denton called the Cup Board.

[acrofreak]

L Glutamine free form AA's with B6 by Country Life.

where are you buying this, and how much are using when you dose the tank (your tank size also for comparison)

Health food store, here in Denton called the Cup Board.

Mixing one 500mg capsule in with the food when it's perpared. Otherwise I dose with ReefPlus AA's twice a week, once about 2 hours before feeding the recipe and once during the middle of week per instructions.

[acrofreak]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought I'd post a little article of the Blue Coral Method of feeding. The HGH is NOT needed for this to be successful. Just a good source of Amino Acids..




The Blu Coral Method

Many people have been stunned looking at the magnificent tanks managed with this method and many others have been interested to know it. The craftsman of the method was Maurizio Manili, in collaborations with others reefkeepers. Today the BC has been inherited by Valerio Pacetti, actual owner of the Blue Coral shop in Rome. He has brought some modifications to the old method.
In this article it we will try to explain how it works and how it can increase the corals’ growth.
We can manage our tanks in two ways: the first, with the simple ‘pappone’ without GH, and the full BC Method.
The basis of both systems are the same: Berliner classic; great attention for the water chemistry; “pappone”.

Berliner classic:

The Berliner classic is characterized by strong lighting system, great water movement , efficient skimmer and live rocks.

Water Chemistry:

A great attention must be put on this aspect, that has many positive implications in all of the BC method. The water parameters are kept in higher concentrations than in natural seawater. Typical and desired values are: Magnesium 1500 mg/l, Calcium 500 mg/l, Strontium 16-30 mg/l, Kh 12-14 mg/l, Iodine 0,06 mg/l, PO4 and NO3 near to zero. These values form a “reservoir” of chemical elements always available for coral calcification and growth.
“Pappone”:

The term “pappone” stands for a blending of fresh seafood mixed with a carbon source (fructose or simple sugar).
The recipe is this:
5 mussels, 5 shrimps, 5 oysters, 5 clams , (all of these must be fresh!!) 1 fructose or saccarose teaspoon, 250 ml of R.O. Water.
Blend energetically until it takes a creamy consistence. At this point, you can add the GH and achieve the full BC method, or leave it without hormone and have a ‘light’ BC method. You can use the 4 units (1,33 mg) vial. Then, blend again and put the pappone in a freezer container as ice cubes, then freeze it. Pay attention on the cold chain. It’s better use very cold RO water so that the temperature doesn’t become too warm when blending.

The GH, what is it?

The GH or somatotrope hormone, is a protein of small dimensions, with a structure considerably different varying the species. There is an high biological specificity, in the sense that the GH of one species is generally completely inactive in others; in that human, the only that is effective is the GH of the monkey. Viceversa, the human one acts only on the monkeys and on no others.

The sequence of the 191 amino acids are on linear chain, and fundamentally has two important actions in the human organism: the increase of the body mass and the regulation of the cellular metabolism, specially the proteic one.

After all, therefore, GH does not act on other mammals and obviously it does not act on invertebrates. This can simply be demonstrated by the need of specific receptors on the cellular membrane of the cell on wich the hormone acts. Obviously, the corals do not have receivers of this type.

The growth increases...

How can we explain the increased growth, the increase of the coral’s metabolism in relation with the increase of the calcification?

This is what it really happens. Many reefers that use this method, got a growth of A.formosa, cervicornis, nobilis, and various montiporas, of almost 40 cm per year. Also the foliose, the LPSs, and the softies increase their growth in impressive way.

I have made myself an idea on what can succeed in water. I state that that the short explanation that will follow is only fruit of my experiences and mine observations, but it does not mean that it’s the absolute truth!

The explanation must be searched in the typical characteristics, structural and molecular therefore, of the GH. Being a very small protein, it’s very probably, if not sure, that the GH put in the “pappone” is broken off. This is the fulcrum of the argument. It is not the integral GH that acts directly on corals, also because for the reasons said before it is very improbable, but it’s the broken GH that influences the growth and the increase of the metabolism.
When we feed our corals with the “pappone”, in reality we add in water many amino acids. In fact when the protein is broken off it comes exactly cracked in many pieces, everyone of which constituted by amino acids. It will be therefore the abundance of determined and very specific amino acids that involves the increased rate of growth.
This is the sole explanation to which I’ve comed after various observations. In this way it’s effectively possible to explain, from a biological point of view, how the GH can influence corals.

These amino acids that are supplied with the GH are added to the amino acids that we supply, generally, approximately 2 hours before the “pappone”, in order to favor the assimilation of this last one.

The remaining of the components of the “pappone” (mussels, clams and so on) will go to feeding bacterial cultivations, the sponges and all the benthic organisms, that in this way will go to feed corals. In this way we can have a situation of maximum saturation from the alimentary point of view of the coral, and therefore they have the possibility to calcify, given the abundance of the nutrients and chemical substances.

All this speech obviously does not regard the fishes that are not minimally influenced by the abundance of amino acids in water; in fact the fishes have absolutely normal rates of growth.
Generally one of aspects that characterize the Blue Method Coral is that after a short period of arrangement of the system, we can see a drastic reduction of nutrients, that remain stable generally towards the zero; it is for the phosphates as far as the nitrates. All the system benefits of the amino acid contribution.
Special attention must be given at the beginnig of the method, everyone must find the own doses of “pappone” to feed the tank. A fundamental aspect is in watching our animals and understanding how much food they need.

I hope I have cleared some aspects on this method, that I think one of the best methods of conduction of a reef tank, as if the GH is used, as if we take cue from the method also without the use of the hormone.

Thank you for attention, best regards and see you soon on Reefitalia Magazine!
Fabio Oggiano aka SiR
Neither the author of the article, the reefkeepers mentioned herein, nor reefitalia.net they are responsible of an improper use of the hormone; from the legislative point of view, it is from the use that everyone just makes of it. They are not moreover responsible

These guys have been using this method of feeding for 8+ years

These are a couple pics that show before and after. They are six weeks apart.

Before six weeks earlier
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/ropatt/000_0005.jpg

after, taken a couple days ago.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/ropatt/100_0180.jpg

I also changed from 400w xm 10k to Reeflux 10k, reason for color diff.