To close loop or not to close loop...that is the question

[cobraden]

Hi all,

First I'd like to do a quick intro of myself. My name is Dennis and I live in Houston. I just stumbled on to this board a couple of weeks ago from a post on Marshreef.com. I've been in the fish hobby for over 30 yrs and in the late 80's I was a part owner and manager of a LFS in the CS/Bryan area.

I have enjoyed the board and the natives seem friendly enough so I decided to jump in. If you frequent both boards you will see this question on Marshreef as well.

Anyway, I am about to move and now that I will have the room to do it, I plan to start a new reef project and wanted to get some opinions.

The tank will most likely be 96"x30"x25" but I may go to 30" on height. It will be a built in installation so only the front will be viewable.

I do not have any experience using or designing a closed loop system and wonder if all the extra plumbing is worth it. With the current that the Tunze pumps produce, why would someone go with a closed loop system instead of just hiding the Tunze's.

I know there are pros and cons to both so I'm not saying either is better because like I said I do not have any experience with a closed loop system. Just looking for input to help me decide if I'm going to order the tank drilled or for closed loop or not.

Thanks in advance.

[LoneStar]

hmmmm this debate can almost rage as long as a salt debate or any other in this hobby.

Like you said both have pros and cons and most of the time it comes down to money. Initial cost of setup vs overall cost of opperating and maintenance. Sometimes you just have to throw money out the window as a variable and look at the situation then.

Closed Loop:
A little harder to plumb...but not always if you plan ahead when designing the tank from scratch. Ocean Motions is the way to go for a closed loop. Either a 4 way, (2) 4 ways, or I do believe they have an 8 way. Add some edductors on the ends of the lines and they can create some awesome flow....if matched up with a effecient yet powerfull external pump.

Powerheads:
Tunzes are still the at the top of their market niche. Powerfull...Controllable...very efficient. The Streams are worth getting, even if you can't hide them as much. For a tank that size, you may consider the wavebox in addtion to a few streams.

In my opinion the Vortech pump is too new. I was considering those for my new tank but they have too many issue. The concept of that pump is a great idea but you have a bearing that has to be replaced periodically. They are still working on their wireless controller. Latest I heard was it will come out sometime in the summer of 2007. And if you do own a Vortech pump now and want to run it with the controller, you have to take out and mail in your old 'circuit board' that controlls the pump now. The older pumps will not be compatible with the newer, undeveloped controllers. That right there turned me off from buying their technology. Their biggest selling feature was the wireless controller and they have not disclosed that information on vendors sites.


Now as for cost, closed loops can be cheaper to setup than expensive powerheads like Tunze's. Tunzes are expenisve from the powerheads to the controllers. Closed loops can be cheaper on the plumbing but you still have to pay for drilled holes(since you said you were on a new tank), pump, Ocean Motions(just a consideration), bulkheads, ball valves and other plumbing parts. But as we all know in the long run, the Tunze style pumps will be more cost effective on the overall 'electrical cost.'

Another thing to consider is the resale value. Now I know most do not look at themselves selling off their equipment, but sometimes it happens. Tunzes hold their value very well. If, and I mean IF you have to part out down the road, you will get EASILY 75% or more of the price back after selling Tunze products. People jump on that in no time once posted 'for sale'.


So it just comes down to......whats your budget like? :)

[hobogato]

i just added the seio2600s with controllers to my tank and am very happy with the result. they are large pumps, a little bigger than the tunze, but all together cost much less.

[Ross]

I'd say go for the CL. Just not seeing any pumps in the tank makes it look so much better IMO.

[blueboy]

in a tank that size the tunzes wouldn't be too obtrusive. with a little effort to hide them, or some of those rock-look covers, i think that would be the simplest, most cost effective solution.

[caferacermike]

I've heard several complaints about the OM products not working at all. I was looking into them for hte 400g project but I'm not satisfied with what I found.

[cobraden]

Thanks for the information so far. I think I'm leaning towards not going CL. I'm pretty sure I can hide the bumps in a tank that size.

[pickle311]

I'm running a closed loop ith 2 eductors and imo the flow is too directional. I'm about to pull out the eductors and change it up some, I will probably add 2 Tunze streams also.

[Ping]

Another part of the equation to consider is that pumps in the water increase the tanks temp. CL's do not add near as much heat.

[blueboy]

tunzes produce very little heat due to their high efficiency motors. in comparison to other PHs anyway.

[Ping]

I did not know that about Tunzes. Can the same be said about the Seio's?

[Ram_Puppy]

I have to say my oceansmotions experience was awesome, and any problems I had were quickly and PROMPTLY resolved w/ excellent customer service, even though the lady that runs the joint (I forget their names but the guy makes the stuff and she keeps the business going) had cancer at the time.

[cobraden]

I would be more concered about heat transfer from a few PH's if the water volume wasn't so large. I have had that be a problem with a smaller tank in the past.