How much LR?

[jc]

The nitrate level in my fowlr tank is about 50ppm. I think it may be from my wet/dry. I did add a fuge that is about the size of a 20 gallon high tank. The fuge has about 6" of sugar size sand and a thick mat of cheato. I thought the fuge would help but it just can't keep up even though the cheato grew from a handful to covering the whole fuge. I want to try to take the bio balls out, but I only have about 75 pounds of LR. Is this enough rock to support zero levels of ammonia and nitrite in a 180 gallon tank? I have a juvenile emperor angel, powder blue tang, semilarvatus butterfly, purple tang, and a coral beauty. I hope I don't have to add more rock because I want the fish to have lots of room to swim. Also, can I run the fuge light 24hrs?

[JimD]

FOwLR tanks generaly require much more filtration other than bio-filtration. Mechanical filtration is whats needed here in the form of a giant, over sized skimmer. Removing the bio-balls slowly will help, but in the long run, youre most likely going to need to upgrade your skimmer and do more frequent water changes.

[alton]

I am missing the bio balls thing? If I take it out I will have less nitrates? Nitrates are only present because something is feeding them? I have been using first bio bale and now bio balls for 15 years. I guess I am slow to change? My 155 has bio balls and been set up for a couple of years and my nitrates are below five. I have a changing blue face angel, sohal tang, and a copper band in this tank with about 75lbs of live rock and corals. I maintain this doing 5 gallon water changes a week with RO for the top off. There is really no reason to have a fish with live rock only tank. First thing add green star polyps, xenia, and a frogspawn to your tank. I have yet to see anything eat these three. Except for the Frogspawn the other two do not require a lot of light. Somebody here on MAAST or a fish store will sell you a frag of each. Do water changes and in six months your nitrates will come down.

[Richard]

Nitrates are only present because something is feeding them?


I think the bioballs can become a problem only if they become very dirty. Then they just become a big nutrient sink. Actually, when I used bioballs on my old 120 I didn't have real high nitrates (around 10). When I removed them the nitrates did go down though. I noticed that when I removed them my ORP went up abut 40mv so what I think happened is that since my ORP went up more organics were oxidized resulting in less nitrates being produced. Either way, I'm sure it was all the detritus build up on the bioballs that were the problem and not the bioballs themselves.

[jc]

I have been using tapwater for topoff, maybe this caused a nitrate spike? For months my nitrate was about 10-20 ppm. As for the protein skimmer, I have a G2 that is pretty strong. I don't think it is lacking in power.
I am going to try switching to r/o for top offs and water changes on the fowlr. Has anyone here tried dosing with sugar or vodka to bring down nitrates?

[JeremyGlen]

Ok. Here goes my words o wisdom on the subject.

First, if you are using a wet/dry system you probably have a filter floss pad over the bio balls. If so, you need to change/clean this pad at least weekly or your going to have nitrates all the time.

Second, there has been a bit of a **** towards replacing bio balls with LR rubble to make things more natural and to actually provide more surface area than the bio balls can for the nitrifying bacteria.

Third, how long has your fuge been up and running? Your trying to reduce the nitrates of 50 ppm in 180g tank with the cheato that is growing in about a 20g tank area. If you look at it from that stand point, your never going to get enough to grow.

Having a protein skimmer that is rated for at least double your tank size is going to be the minimum I would recommend for your tank.

Essentially, you can take the bio balls out of your wet/dry and replace them with the LR rubble and put a light on it. This would promote the growth of coralline algae and help control other algaes in your tank as well as the nitrates. If you are going to replace them, I believe I saw a ton of LR rubble over at Wolf Reef, so ask Ed if he has any. It would already have the bacteria growing on it so you really aren't going to risk hurting the tank.

I wouldn't run the fuge light 24/7 but I would run it on an opposite cycle as the main tank, but you can run it 24/7 if you would like.

As with any FOWLR, your going to fight nitrates all the time because you don't have any higher lifeforms using up the nitrates as in a reef.

[jc]

Is the blue filter floss good enough to keep the detrius off the bioballs?

[jc]

What higher lifeforms use nitrates, besides clams? The fuge has been running since back when my nitrates were 10-20 ppm. Also I have never had a problem with any type of algae. The only thing I get is that thin slime on the glass that the snails eat. If I use a magnet cleaner on the glass, I only have to use it once a week to keep the glass clean. I have plenty of coralline that is actually spreading slowly.

[alton]

Works for me, whats funny is when I had my 75, I had to leave it out every other month or my corals would stop growing. In other words my water was getting too clean. And I only ran my skimmer on weekends. I always say that there is no way you can have two tanks that look and act the same. I once had five. That is why most everyone always has a different opinion on what works, because if it was so easy we would all get bored and go back to fresh water raising guppies. Sorry I didn't mean to slam guppy raisers.

[RNall]

a bit off topic but...

I'm the family 'fish' expert. My mother has a 20 gallon guppy tank. She always asks me for help when something strange happens to her tank. All of her guppies dissappeared. Every last one, the males, the females...those cute little babies....she was heartbroken... Turns out, pretty cichlids don't coexist with guppies very long (she had put him in and in one day the tank was guppy free).... >_<

[RNall]

Back on topic: A few years ago I ran a very healthy setup with nothing more than a dsb, lots of LR and 2 part additives....10% water changes every 6-8 weeks. It was a 72 bow, up for 2 years (had to sell because of a move). I have a skimmer now, more for insurance than anything though. I run it 24/7 but it's tuned way down. my nitrates are higher now but they are dropping.

[JeremyGlen]

Yes, tap water as top off is going to raise your nitrates and dissolved solids. Information like that should be included in your first post cause that is probably the cause of your troubles.

As for the filter floss, any kind that you use should be cleaned at least weekly to prevent any build-up of detritus.

Any time you have a problem that pops up, think back to anything you have done differntly in the past few months and that is a good place to start to find the cause.

[RNall]

AAbsolutely - tap water! I missed that with my jabbering.