Will I survive Acro Eating Flat Worms? [Archive]

fishypets

Mon, 9th Oct 2006, 10:08 PM

Well I have the little pest and will begin an out of tank treatment next week. I am hoping someone here can chime in and tell their survival story. I plan on setting up a 80 gal tank 36x33x16 and hook my CA reactor, one 400W 12K Reeflux, chiller and adding a few streams for flow. I have already removed and dipped the acros affected the most by the worms and was amazed at how many flat worms were in the bottom of the bucket after treating only 9 colonies. I estimate there were over 300 AEFW and at least 200 eggs off the colonies I dipped tonight. It wouldn't surprise me if I have 10,000 or more of these pest in my 125. Any advice is welcome as I begin the most trying times I've had as a reefer.

Clint

cpreefguy

Mon, 9th Oct 2006, 10:11 PM

Ouch man, you seem to have bad luck with pests!
I have read a few threads on RC about them and it seems like with treatment that you can save your stuff. GL!

BIGBIRD123

Mon, 9th Oct 2006, 10:24 PM

Clint, Contact Marc (melev)on DFWMAS, he's is trying to recover from them as we speak. Here's the link:

http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=22148

HTH,
Steve

thedude

Mon, 9th Oct 2006, 11:37 PM

Already been talking to Melev actually. He's taking an approach not hardcore enough for us.

JeffCo

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 12:51 PM

I had a battle with them and unfortunately lost. I setup a separate tank like you, but made the mistake of dosing the entire quarentine tank. I thought it would be easier this way, but it was harder on the corals. I recommend still taking the coral out of the tank, then dipping it, then returning it back to the quarentine tank. Still do frequent water changes in the quarentine tank, but take water out of your main tank - into the quarentine tank - then put the new saltwater into your main tank.

It is a very trying time and will frustrate you to no end, I almost gave up and sold my entire stock and tank, but after a few weeks I decided to keep the tank and what I had left. Hope this helps a little.

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 09:42 PM

Thanks Jeff for chiming in. I was considering treating in the tank but after reading you input I've changed my mind.

Well the treatment process has begun and so far I have set up the QT tank built by none other Ace aka Hobogoto. Here is a few pics of the QT tank next to my display. Hopefully in 10 weeks I will be AEFW free! I will update this thread when I can. Wish me luck ;)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6401.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6402.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6403.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6404.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6405.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6406.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6407.jpg

Richard

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 09:53 PM

I wish I had some advice but I've never dealt with them. Do you know what genus the AEFW's are? I'm just wondering if praziquantel would be effective since it should be very safe for the acros.

C.Mydas

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 10:08 PM

ummm...there is a tank in the way of your pics. Next time, when you look through the eyepiece on your camera, make sure Minnie is centered in it.
-JK...this sux Clint. Keep us updated.

apedroza

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 10:08 PM

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 10:08 PM

You got me man. All I know is they like eating acros. I will post some pics of the little guys once the treatment begins. You will be amazed at how many are in my tank.

Richard

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 10:24 PM

Well I just did a really quick search but it sounds like people have not had success with prazi pro. Seems like people are thinking these are becoming more of a problem because of all the red bug treatments. Theory being, less acro crabs that might protect the acros from these flatworms.

What treatment did you use? How long will you need to keep the main tank acro free?

cpreefguy

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 11:35 PM

sweet QT tank, and good luck!

btw, what are its dimensions?

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 11:41 PM

What treatment did you use? How long will you need to keep the main tank acro free?

We will be diping the corals in a "Fluke Tab" bath for 30 minutes and scrubing all the eggs off and placing back in the QT tank once a week for 10 weeks. During this time I will "cook" my rock and replace all the sand.

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 11:41 PM

sweet QT tank, and good luck!

btw, what are its dimensions?

Thanks! The dimensions are 36x33x16

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 11:43 PM

ummm...there is a tank in the way of your pics. Next time, when you look through the eyepiece on your camera, make sure Minnie is centered in it.
-JK...this sux Clint. Keep us updated.

Here ya go!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_5632.jpg

fishypets

Thu, 12th Oct 2006, 11:50 PM

How do you know if you have these dreaded worms what signs do you look for. Iam really starting to get paranoid about these things. My corals look fine right now, I do lugol's dips on everything before it goes in my tank, but I'm still a little nervous.

You are ahead of the game if you DIP EVERY CORAL EVERY TIME....

What I noticed was little white blotches on the under arms of my acros (sorry no pictures yet.) I suspected AEFW so I fraged a branch and gave it a fresh water bath and squirted the frag with a turkey baster. As soon as I did this they visible.

thedude

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 12:58 AM

One thing to note, they're freaking big. Once they let go of the coral, they're easy to see.

TexasTodd

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 10:31 AM

This has me so freaked out, I was scared just to DRIVE through Austin last night!

Good luck guys.

Todd

C.Mydas

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 10:45 AM

See now thats a cute pic. Is she grounded or in there by choice?! :lol

Bill S

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 10:58 AM

How long does a tank have to be SPS free for them to die out completely?

thedude

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 11:21 AM

We're letting Clint's tank run fallow for 10 weeks a think to be safe. The estimated time for them all to die and hatch and die is 5 weeks.

The huge PITA today is going to be getting every single acro base off of the rock. One little base, and these guys can live for substantially longer.

mojo

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 10:09 PM

For those of you who don't know what they look like, check out this evil. This is a mille frag that I suspected had the AEFW. I removed it and placed it in a white bowl with tank water. Look at the bottom, beside the purple putty, and you can see a small cluster of eggs.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/mjosephs/30g%20cube/AEFW1.jpg

I then put 5 drops of Lugol's solution in the bowl and the worms began dropping out.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/mjosephs/30g%20cube/AEFW4.jpg

These things are NASTY, but we're gonna beat'em, Clint!

cpreefguy

Fri, 13th Oct 2006, 11:17 PM

Man, I need some serious help too. All of my sps are dying one by one and I have inspected every dead colony/frag and see no signs
of any pests

Richard

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:32 AM

So I take it these guys are pretty hard to see on the acros? I notice they are pretty much the exact color as the frag. Are they more visible on a different color acro or do they just blend in with the color of the acro, like a chameleon?

fishypets

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:35 AM

First off I would like to give a special thanks to John aka "the dude" Without your help man I'd be up a creek with out a paddle. It's people like you and Ace that make this hobby so much more ;)

Now on to business.....Today was the day that all my coral came from the display and into the QT. John removed most of the corals and I was scraping eggs. Every coral that went into the sps tank received a 30 minute dip in Tropic Marin dip. During this process we would blast the acros with a turkey baster and watch the little AEFW go everywhere. Before placing the corals into the QT tank they got one final wash in fresh SW. The process took a little over three hours from start to finish.

Due to a prior engagment I had to meet my G/F down town for a few hours and when I returned the QT tank water was warm and some corals showed signs of RTN. I quickly hooked up the chiller and the temp was 83. Now the temp is slowly coming down the corals look a little better but tonight will be a big night. I also added fresh Hydro carbon and buffed the water slightly.

Oh yeah I also took some pics....Here ya go

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6412.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6413.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6414.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6415.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6416.jpg

Here are some eggs. I like mine with ham sunny side up
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6418.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6419.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6421.jpg

fishypets

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:39 AM

More pics of eggs at the base of the milli.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6422.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6423.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6424.jpg

Here is the QT tank filling up with sps.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6425.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6427.jpg

Top down with movement.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6428.jpg

And some trash.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6426.jpg

mojo

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 10:29 AM

Clint, great pics and nice demonstration of the appearance of the eggs. Ditto to your comments about thedude.

Richard, the flatworms will blend in and appear nearly translucent on the corals, and it's nearly impossible to see them on the corals when they're in the tank. If you suspect you may have them, I suggest you follow the procedure I outlined above. Hope you don't have them!

Ross

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 10:35 AM

There seems to be alot of good looking 'trash'.

Richard

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:01 PM

Richard, the flatworms will blend in and appear nearly translucent on the corals, and it's nearly impossible to see them on the corals when they're in the tank. If you suspect you may have them, I suggest you follow the procedure I outlined above. Hope you don't have them!

No, I'm not having any problems. I'm just getting info for future reference in case I ever do. What were the very first signs of problems that you saw before you realized you had them? Was it just lack of coloration on some acro's, some tissue recession, or certain acro's suddenly dieing off completely, etc.?

fishypets

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:08 PM

For me it was color fade and the obvious bite marks on some of the branches. I never found any eggs looking through the glass. It is almost like they know where to hide.

JimD

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 12:54 PM

Dang man, that really blows! I guess my first question would be, where did they come from??

gcantu

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 01:27 PM

Aside from blasting them with a turkey baster, what do you use to brush the eggs off without disturbing the polyps on the acros?

BIGBIRD123

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 01:35 PM

Clint,
I wouldn't wish this on anyone...even a longhorn. Man, If there is anything I can do to help , let me know. When things resolve for you, if you need any frags...you're welcome to any from my tank. Just let me know and please keep us updated. Man, this really Hoovers!

Just so you know I still like you...Gig 'Em!

Steve

SueT

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 04:34 PM

Clint, OMG, I am so sorry for this.. I had AEFW's back before we redid my tank, but they were only on 1 or 2 frags. I'd dip them and the color would come back strong and intense and then I'd see the color fade and know it was time to dip again. I think since my tank was fallow for so long when we redid it, that has to be why I'm ok now.

I agree I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Just hang in there and keep the faith, you'll get through this too..

mojo

Sat, 14th Oct 2006, 06:53 PM

[quote]What were the very first signs of problems that you saw before you realized you had them? Was it just lack of coloration on some acro's, some tissue recession, or certain acro's suddenly dieing off completely, etc.? I had received some beautiful frags with bright colors, and over a period of weeks the colors faded. I thought there was something wrong with my flow/light/chemistries, but everything seemed OK. I then noticed that the PE, particularly on the mille's, was becoming worse. I took some macro shots and saw red bugs on my corals. After treating for red bugs with Interceptor, I expected the PE to improve immediately, but it didn't. That's when I looked for the AEFW and found them.

SueT

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 08:08 AM

hobogato

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 08:46 AM

thedude

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 01:22 PM

Commenting on where Clint got these bugs... SniperSPS on reefcentral.

Highly respected reefer, completely ripped Clint off. No matter who you get your corals from you should dip or QT.

SueT

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 03:59 PM

That only proves that when these AEFW's first came on the scene, it was said they do not get on millepora type corals. I guess now that they seem to be so widespread the AEFW's have adapted to attaching to most any acropora..now thats scarey..

or, maybe they were just harder to see on mille's so people didnt think they were there. i have heard the same thing about redbugs, but when i treated my tank a while back, they came off of the mille's too.

For me I am using my own experience in saying this too. I did have quite a few millepora or acropora with very shaggy polyps and not a single one every had any AEFW's on them. What were 100% affected were the valida's, tri-colors and anything purple. My tortuosa's never affected either. This all may be due to a lite infestation too. After dips I rarely saw more than a half dozen of the large AEFW's.

hobogato

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 04:12 PM

tricky little buggers - no matter how you look at it :angry

fishypets

Sun, 15th Oct 2006, 10:36 PM

Well I can't say I didn't worry about my SPS all weekend long. I was out of town and just got home and the corals are still hanging on. My ph fell a little and the skimmer cup was full of nasty stuff, but other than that all is in order. Here are a few more pics of the corals I took tonight.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6431.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6432.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6433.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6435.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6436.jpg

And here are a few pics of the sump Raymond (wrep) was kind enough to let me borrow. Thanks Raymond!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6438.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6437.jpg

SueT

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 08:36 AM

I'm sure you did worry about your corals. You have taken the time and care to grow them out and to have this happen is just sickening. Things look good from the pics and I know your doing all you possibly can to save them and thats what is the important thing.

Keep hanging in..

JeffCo

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 10:16 AM

Looking good Clint, how often are you dipping them? Weekly? Do you see the flatworms coming off with the Fluke tab dip? I used betadine, but it can be deadly to the corals if not administered right. Keep us posted.

fishypets

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 07:55 PM

Sue thanks...I'll keep biting my nails.

Jeff the tabs did not make it in last week so I diped using TMPCC. It worked but the plan is to dip the corals once a week using fluke tabs for a total of 10 weeks. Hey at that rate I should have some nice stuff by Christmas!

hobogato

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 09:55 PM

maybe it is just me clint, but they seem to have regained a little of their color from when i saw them the other day?

fishypets

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 10:07 PM

Ace they have actually lost a ton of color. I think I need to start taking pictures with the flash on to show how white they really are. I would say most of the sps are still in ICU. Due to a delay in the fluke tabs we will start the real treatment on Monday which is good. I hope a to see improvment by then.

hobogato

Mon, 16th Oct 2006, 10:09 PM

darn. the pics made them look like they had more color than before you started.

fishypets

Thu, 19th Oct 2006, 04:23 PM

Well it is day 6 and the corals seem to be doing fine. Mike and I plan on doing the first dip with Fluke tabs this Sunday so stay tuned for a new round of pics.

fishypets

Mon, 23rd Oct 2006, 09:53 PM

Sunday Mike (Mojo) brought his sps over and we completed the first treatment with the Fluke tab. We didn't notice many dead flatworms in the buckets afterward but Mike did scrape a ton of eggs. I wonder if the Tropic Marin dip killed most of the flat worms and there were only a few scragglers left over?

I am happy with the progress made and look forward to seeing my tank better than ever. Only three months before it is up and running again.

I managed to take only one pic but it is a good one. Here is the Doc scraping eggs and looking very cool at the same time.:lol

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6566.jpg :lol

fishypets

Mon, 23rd Oct 2006, 10:04 PM

Oh yeah and here is the current pic of my 125 :sick

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6567.jpg

lido

Tue, 24th Oct 2006, 11:21 AM

Wow! Your living my nightmare... Hang in there it looks like your doing a great job.

SueT

Tue, 24th Oct 2006, 04:56 PM

love that look with the surgeon glasses.. I'm glad that things are looking better in atleast there didn't seem to be any AEFW's in this go round of dipping. Hoping thats a great sign..

fishypets

Thu, 26th Oct 2006, 08:43 PM

Bill thanks man, this is really testing my love for this hobby.

Sue...You guessed it! Mike is a pediatric surgeon and one of the finest Austin has to offer.

For anyone still following our little thread here is a quick update. Sps are still alive and kicking! ^_^ I was thinking about feeding the QT tank but not sure what to feed other than oyster eggs. I tested the water tonight and here are the results:

P.H. 8.1

KH 8.0

CA 380

Have I mentioned yet that treating for AEFW is very expensive! I have gone through 300 gallons of Tropic Marin Pro salt mix in less than 2 weeks. (John I think I'll take two more buckets) Not to mention the extra time wasted on the weekends and hearing the girlfriend nag. I suggest to everyone make sure to dip every new frag every time no matter the source.

Only one new pic this week and it shows the wave box I added for extra flow.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6568.jpg

hobogato

Thu, 26th Oct 2006, 08:46 PM

good news :) thanks for the update clint.

mojo

Fri, 27th Oct 2006, 12:17 AM

Things are looking great, Clint! Params are good, and I'm sure the corals appreciate the extra flow from the wavebox.

And considering that there are only 6 pediatric surgeons in Austin, it's not too tough being "one of the finest." :P

SueT

Fri, 27th Oct 2006, 08:18 AM

Clint, the update sounds very good. I know it has to be a relief, yet not knowing if it's ok to take a deep breath just yet either.

fishypets

Sun, 29th Oct 2006, 09:05 PM

After my Fluke tab treatment today I noticed this 1.5 inch bright red flatworm moving around. Anyone know what kind he is? I don't think the Fluke tabs slowed down this guy one bit.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6584.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6583.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6582.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6581.jpg

SueT

Mon, 30th Oct 2006, 09:16 AM

omg, that is one nasty looking thing. It has such a bright color and I've never seen one like that before. Scarey to think the fluke tabs didn't hinder it in any way..

mojo

Mon, 30th Oct 2006, 11:19 AM

It wasn't hindered by Fluke-Tabs OR Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure! There's no way that monster came from one of my small frags, it had to have been buried within one of Clint's massive colonies. You oughta post those pics and start a new thread on RC to see if anyone can identify it, like maybe in the "Other Invertebrates" or even the "SPS" forum. I hope you don't see any more of those!

fishypets

Thu, 2nd Nov 2006, 09:59 PM

I don't think it was eating acros but I thought about dipping it in batter and eating it myself.

All is doing well in the QT tank for now.......... Did I mention I was also a rock chef?? The term "cooking rock" basically means you remove the rock from light and filtration and let the rock "break down" and become pure and clean of unwanted algae and other unsightly things. During the cooking process I will be removing the rock from the storage can (located in my garage) and scrubbing the rock, rinsing the rock in 5 clean containers and finally adding the rock back to the storage can and adding fresh saltwater.

Here are a few pics from last weeks fun.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6573.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6574.jpg

Here are the buckets of clean saltwater before the rinse.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6570.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6569.jpg

Fresh saltwater ready for the water change in the "cooking can"

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6571.jpg

This is what the buckets looked like after the first rock went through the rinsing process.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6576.jpg

After the second rock

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6575.jpg

About the time the rinsing water was nice and nasty I decided not to touch my camera for the rest of the day. I will say that this is one of the most disgusting things I've ever smelled. Next rock rinse I promise to take more photos during the process to show how much crud comes out of the rock. I hope by week 10 the rock is nice and white.

thedude

Fri, 3rd Nov 2006, 12:33 AM

I'm going to chime in and say Clint isn't kidding about the smell. I've worked in fish stores for some time now and the smell that wafts from that trash can is by far, the worst thing I've ever smelled marine wise. DOA anemones don't even come close.

What was it that your girlfriend said, "Ah geeze. the smell is burning my nose?"

TexasTodd

Fri, 10th Nov 2006, 08:39 AM

Hey Clint, any updates?

Todd

don-n-sa

Fri, 10th Nov 2006, 11:50 AM

Hey Todd...I guess you missed this post....very sad. :(

http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=22155

TexasTodd

Fri, 10th Nov 2006, 12:12 PM

Thanks Donny, I'd heard a rumor, but didn't know there was a new thread.

Todd

fishypets

Wed, 13th Dec 2006, 10:11 PM

Well, I'd say I didn't survive the little guys. Here is a pic of the QT a few days after it was set up.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6431.jpg

And here we are today :(

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/fishypets/IMG_6694.jpg

I can't wait till my new tank comes in and I can start stocking with acro frags. I'll be like a little kid in a candy store. :P

Bill S

Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 08:30 AM

Wow. That is just sooo sad.

mojo

Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 11:44 AM

Great attitude shift since the beginning of this thread. You'll be back, Clint, stronger than ever and with a wicked new tank filled with primo SPS!

Isis

Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 11:59 AM

FYI... Eric B is looking for some AEFW, so please PM on the MARSH site if you have them.

mojo

Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:08 PM

Kim, it's a little too late to recover any, as all of the little bastards have been slain and there are no remaining eggs, at least that's what I heard from Clint when we last spoke.

Isis

Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

Kim, it's a little too late to recover any, as all of the little bastards have been slain and there are no remaining eggs, at least that's what I heard from Clint when we last spoke.Oh okay... well if any of you come across any, please Eric B know. I am not sure how he wants them preserved, or if he wants them alive. Usually the best way to preserve them is in 95% ethanol, or come Everclear if you don't have the ethanol on hand.