water problem

[wrxtuner]

Hi everyone, my name is jared and im a novice aquariumist. I just started my 55g tank with refugium last night. I added water then the salt and my tank is circulating the water from tank to sump. Then I added the live sand, and thats where my problem started. The tank has had 8 hours to settle and it hasnt yet, although it is a little clearer, its still looks horrible. What should I do?....does it need more time?....should i do a water change? Thanks for your info, and im glad to be apart of this site.

Jared

[JimD]

Atually, you did it backwords, should have been done like this... Mix the saltwater in seperate containers to the desired specific gravity, add the sand, then add the saltwater. Although the way you did it will work, its just going to take much longer to clear. Possibly as long as a week. Keep the flow to a minimum and have patience.

[wrxtuner]

how exciting......oh well you live and you learn......can i do a water change or will that be bad news...

[JimD]

In wouldnt, just give it time to settle on its own and do not use any kind of filtration device to remove the particles from the water, its those really fine grains that make the sandbed work. Just kick back for a few days and it'll clear, trust me. This hobby requires tons of patience, nothing good happens quickly.

[caferacermike]

Just wait. In fact I'd turn off your pumps for about 2 days to allow the sand to settle. A freind once bought the sugar fine sand, yeah well it never settle in. You weren't planning ot stock this tank right away were you?

[wrxtuner]

ok i will do that....sucks that it has to be that way but oh well. I added the recommended dose of TCL to it last night also. Will that help it, make the situation worse or will it do nothing? Thanks for all of your help.

[JimD]

Shutting off all the pumps will cause the water to stagnate, not good, leave one small pump running towards the surface and you'll be fine.

[wrxtuner]

I did do a 5g water change last night after a couple of hours of waiting

[caferacermike]

I'm not familiar with this TCL. Are you saying you added a carbon to remove waste, a supplement, a tank clearing product?

[wrxtuner]

I have two maxijet 1200s should i turn them on too. I just turned on my return pump

[wrxtuner]

sorry i meant tlc which is another brand of bio-spire (i think thats how you spell it) I cycles your tank in a matter of 3 days.

[wrxtuner]

and no i wasnt planning on stocking it right away...just little by little... I was planning on adding 80lbs of live rock first then getting crabs and hermits, then to 2-3 reef damsels. Later on im getting a lionfish and a snowflake eel, then working on making it a reef tank

[JimD]

and no i wasnt planning on stocking it right away...just little by little... I was planning on adding 80lbs of live rock first then getting crabs and hermits, then to 2-3 reef damsels. Later on im getting a lionfish and a snowflake eel, then working on making it a reef tank

Why are you adding the damsels?

[hobogato]

Later on im getting a lionfish and a snowflake eel, then working on making it a reef tank

this may cause you problems later. large predator fish make lots of ammonia, which can be hard to deal with in a coral reef tank. the typical problem with these fish is they cause nitrates to be difficult to controll - and most corals dont like nitrates.

[betiuminside]

Hello tuner and welcome,

All I have to say is that listen to those guys, they are the best.
2.- lots of patience
3.- read a lot, or post thread if you don't know, or not sure. For every actions there's a concecuence.
3 .- just let one pump running until everything clears out.
4.- if you buy uncured rock, best way to do it is cure it in the tank, but no fish or cleaning crue yet. ( read on curing rock)
5 no waste your money w/ biospira... let the tank do his thing... wait until it cycles.... ( read on cycling a tank )
5. add cleaning crew... and wait wait wiat... until everything is perfect... get the best skimmer you can afford!! there's a lot of ppl seeling used stuff w/ good deals.
6. do not add damsels... they are a pain in the but to take them out later on.... you will be fine just curing the rock in the tank.. or even if it is cured.. wait... until the tank cycle...
7.. Read on dif. fishes.. and then... check compability and then space... and then... put them in..

Good luck...

Just try not to make the same mistakes we all did..

[caferacermike]

Jim and Ace are absolutely correct. Lions, Morays (unless a huge tank)and damsels are not great ideas for a future reef. Damsels are best left in the shop for me to buy and feed to my angler frog, my sargassum frog, my panther grouper, and oh yeah my new toad fish.

Back on topic though. It was mentioned to turn off your pumps for acouple of days therby allowing the sediments to settle out of the water. Why would you reply that you turned on more powerheads instead? turning on more pumps will just leave it mixed inteh water column longer. Part of the reason for adding a lot of flow to the tank is so that detritus and wastes are constantly in the water column so that they can be removed by the skimmer and filters. Turn it all off for a few days. In fact I bet you if you turn them off for about 3 hours you'll see results.

[hobogato]

Jim and Ace are absolutely correct. Lions, Morays (unless a huge tank)and damsels are not great ideas for a future reef. Damsels are best left in the shop for me to buy and feed to my angler frog, my sargassum frog, my panther grouper, and oh yeah my new toad fish.



im confused, dont YOU have those fish in a tank/system with corals??? :P :lol :lol

[wrxtuner]

thanks everyone for all of your help......the only thing with the bio-spira is that i know two people that have used bio-spira and within 4 days they added fish and corals and have never had a problem. What is bad about it?

[wrxtuner]

i typed that after seeing jimd's comment about the water becoming stagnate, I missed your reply.

[wrxtuner]

i like damsels thats why i was looking at getting them, mostly b/c they are a school fish and i think that they look sick like that although they arent anything special

[JimD]

Id look into Chromis instead of Damsels for schooling fish as Damsels tend to be extremely aggresive and could affect your fish options on down the road.

[LoneStar]

I agree with Jim. Steer clear from the Damsels. The Cromis are awesome schooling fish that will not bother anyone in the tank. I had a school of 6 and they looked awesome!

[wrxtuner]

oh i know what your talking about like the green chromis dasmel?

[LoneStar]

yeah

[wrxtuner]

******....well i guess i just have to wait for the tank to clear. I will keep yall posted on the progress of my reef tank. Thank you for your speedy help, it really helps out newbies like myself.

[JimD]

You need to wait till your tank cycles! Make sure you dont add any livestock until your perameters are all at zero! You do have the proper test kits right? Just because its clear doesnt mean its ready, especially if you intend to add live rock, even if you add "cured" rock youll still most likely see some kind of an ammonia spike which could prove deadly to whatever livestock that might be in the system. Go slow man, go slow.

[wrxtuner]

I definitely will....thanks for your help

[caferacermike]

Jim and Ace are absolutely correct. Lions, Morays (unless a huge tank)and damsels are not great ideas for a future reef. Damsels are best left in the shop for me to buy and feed to my angler frog, my sargassum frog, my panther grouper, and oh yeah my new toad fish.



im confused, dont YOU have those fish in a tank/system with corals??? :P :lol :lol

Welllllll,,,, I don't own any morays, lions or damsels.

My frog fishes lived in my refugium. My panther USED to live in the display until yesterday. I got him when he was 1/2" long and knew I would have to yank him someday. I got my 24g finally set up and my 5" panther and 2 frogs were moved in there. Then I came a across a sweet orange toadfish. Of course with the theme of my nano being frog fishes I couldn't pass up a toadfish.

Who wants pics?

[LoneStar]

post em' :pics

[wrxtuner]

post post post post :D

[JimD]

Can ya post them in the "photography" forum so we can keep this topic on track?

[Bill S]

Um, I echo the above.

[caferacermike]

Um hey I may appear to be a moron but I'm not. I was going to do just that but include a link here. Thanks.

Edited to add, http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=205212#20 5212

[matt]

I'd leave all your pumps on; the bacteria will help settle the sand. You could throw (don't actually throw them, you might miss!) a couple piece of live rock in there as well; cured is better than uncured, but if all you can get is uncured, that's okay. This will help get the bacteria culture going which really settles the sand. If you used all live sand, I guess you mean the wet stuff in the bags, it will settle pretty quickly. 8 hours is nothing, it'll take a couple of days. Once it's settled and you have some rock in there, start running the lights.

Once you get all your rock in (try to get cured rock; it will save you a headache) remember that the cyclng process goes far beyond the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate bit. It includes redevelopment of a mature bioffilter and sand fauna community, as well as some initial algae blooms. Your best bet is to leave the tank for a few months with just live rock, live sand, and some hermits and snails, plus a handful of real live sand that's got bristleworms and other beneficial critters. You'll be amazed at the development of your tank over those first few months.

It sounds like you're excited about stocking your new tank, just like we all are with a new system. But, it also sounds like you have a few things to learn about what's appropriate for a given size tank; 55 gallons is actually a very small marine tank. Damsels in a new tank are a really bad idea, unless it's your goal to have a tank totally depleted in amphipods, copepods, and other nice little scavengers, not to mention a social environment like south central LA for any new fish you might want to add. The "damsels for cycling" BS is usually recommended by LFS employees that don't know any better.

[GaryP]

Very well said. I concur with what Matt said.

Tit for tat Matt.

[wrxtuner]

no i like the blue-green chromis...thats why i said that...yeah ive heard both to leave on pumps and to turn them off. Its hard to choose which is best.

[jtxstate]

hey j its jason, just shut off the powerheads and let the return pump run, give it some time to let everything settle.

[wrxtuner]

ok thanks bro

[jtxstate]

i dont see a problem with getting chromis except when they get big they are kind of ugly and dont school as well unless there are a few semi aggressive tankmates, and i never had a problem with my four stripe i had in my 20 gallon with 2 clowns. It also depends on which type of damsel you want to get, after all chromis and clowns are types of damsels from what ive learned, and even most clowns get really aggressive as they get older, youve seen my tom. clown hes a beast and wont even let me put my hand in the tank with out biting it. But i do think if you are getting a lion then the fuzzy dwarf might be the best thing, and i think 55 gallons is a great tank to start with taking into account its small enough to move without alot of trouble, and large enough to put most begginer fish in. But you will still need to keep the livestock down as far as fish, i would say 3 to 5 is a good number, one med. a few smaller, but keep in mind the lion will eat any fish or shrmp it can fit in its mouth as will the eel fo sho. sometimes the best way to learn is trial and error. But take it slow, and do your homework. later bro

[matt]

Your tank is too small for chromis to school for any length of time; they do that as a defensive behavior, and they'll soon figure out that there are no predators in your small tank. Then, the "school" will start to fight among itself. You'll have 5 chromis, then 4, then 3, well you get the picture.

Really truly it's best to leave your tank fish free for as long as you can stand. Here's an idea, there's a guy in San Antonio that breeds clownfish, his username is Instar, and in a few months when your tank is stable he can sell you a pair of very small ocellaris clowns that will grow into your tank.

[wrxtuner]

yeah but i only want 1 clownfish, if that.....thanks though. Basically what i have found out through what people have been telling me is dont put in fish that will definitely not workout (b/c one will eat the other). Although, you put in with what you are willing to deal with and sometimes part with throughout the life of your tank. I have also found out though some info is detrimental for you to know, the best way to learn about your tank is trial and error.