custom HIATT/HDL carbon filtration system

[jesserettele]

I have started a project that I thought was going to be simple but it has not proven so. I am going to try the HIATT system on my tank and wanted to save some money and space under my tank. The torpedos are about $175 each and I would need six of them for a 125 gal. This is what I have come up with so far. More pics are in my gallery.

[Bill S]

6 for a 125? You should need only 2...????

[jesserettele]

for every one carbon you need two ph rock, especially for sps from what i hear.

[wtrujillo]

I was told 2 torpedo's for my 125.

[TheOtherGuy]

Jesse - Here is a little information.

For the proper amount of carbon you need .167 x Tank Size in Gallons.
For 125 you need 20.8 lbs carbon.
1 Red Torpedo filter will hold about 12 lbs carbon.
So 125g would need 2 Red Torpedos.

For PH Rock you need .7 x Tank Size In Gallons
For a 125 you would need 88 lbs PH Rock
1 Red Torpedo will hold about 35 lbs of PH Rock

Pressure Rating on a Red Torpedo is about 150 psi

[jesserettele]

I dumped 21 lbs. of tri based carbon into a 5 gallon bucket and it topped off, so I converted gallons to cubic inches and used the volume of a cylinder formula to get the right height for an 8" cylinder to equal 5 gallons. Then I just duplicated the heights of two additional tubes so I could maintain some consistency. After adding up with the numbers from Mark it looks like I over sized the tubes for the ph rock by 52 lbs.( or it would normally require three torpedos and my tubes equal two torpedos volume wise). All I have to do is just put the right amount of ph rock in my tubes, I don't have to fill them up all the way, and my flow will not be affected. I wanted equal tubes beacause I want my systems pieces to be interchangable with unions at every tube and the pump. This way I can service the tubes independently and inspect for disolved ph rock. I had the end cap plastic rated for PSI and the poly carbonate passed at even 150 psi so hopefully I won't have any floods. I am also going to install a pressure gauge between the pump and the first carbon tube to help me estimate time for back flushing. I am guessing when the pressure starts to go above the original operating psi then the resistence has increased, hopefully back flushing the carbon tube will free up the psi and flow. I am installing two branze hose bibs on either side of the carbon tube in line to allow me to back flush it, anybody ahve any experience with bronze (or whatever those hose bibs are made out of at Home Depot) reacting and corroding with salt water?

[Richard]

I don't think you'll have any problems from metal from the hose bibs (probably brass) but they will corrode over time. Pretty much any metal will with saltwater except maybe titanium. You should return them and get the plastic ones (boiler drains I think they are called).

[Bill S]

Do not put any brass fittings in line TO YOUR TANK. If it's isolated COMPLETELY from the salt water loop, you MIGHT be OK (if there is a valve between it and the loop). Brass is primarly copper, alloyed with zinc.

[jesserettele]

Thanks. I will return them right away. What about a pressure gauge? I want one in line but haven't been successful at finding one that is all plastic or nylon. Does anybody know of one that is? The one I have is brass or whatever they are usually made out off. I will have to return it as well. I would also like an accurate flow meter to check water flow at the output, I understand that no one makes anything like that. I drilled my caps and installed my bulk heads last night. I also put together my spray bar. I wanted to finish it this weekend. I'll send pics to my gallery tomorrow. I would appreciate any suggestions to help me eliminate problems before they happen.

[Bill S]

A pressure gauge really won't tell you much - and finding one without brass fittings will be tough. I went thru that process as well, and decided that it's just plain easier to flush them once a month. And, you are right, no one makes a flow meter that high.

[jesserettele]

I thought that the pressure gauge when first installed would be optimum flow (low psi, low resistence). Then as resistence in the carbon tube builds (caused by that black crud Richard told me about) the pressure should start to go up at least slightly psi wise. Hopefully this could tell me when to flush the tubes. Why didn't you end up using a pressure gauge Bill? Not available in plastic the reason?

[Bill S]

Not available in plastic, didn't know WHAT pressure to use - the circulation pumps don't put out much pressure anyway (not like house water pressure), etc.

[emilbus]

so you spent over 1000.00 on these torpedos right? what are they used for? is it worth spending that much? sorry just some newbie questions

[jesserettele]

I am a newbie too but the torpedos are not pictured here. They are fiber wrapped cylinders that are fitted with all the right plumbing connections to install in line. These torpedos are used to hold large quantities of media. Tribased pellatized carbon, ph rock, and metal gone. Here is the web page link http://www.hdltd.com/ . These medias are suppose to replace the usual skimmers and live sand in refugiums. The project that I have is trying to create a make at home cheaper version of the torpedos. So far I am really close to the same price. My advantange is being able to see inside the canisters to check the dissolving ph rock. I'm not sure it is worth it though. I was able to customize these canisters to make the smallest footprint as possible to save under-tank cabinet space. I finished most of it today, I will hopefully post more pics tomorrow to see the monsters. I need to stop by and get some bacteria now to help get things started in the right direction. Richard and Mark at CB pets have some good info about these systems.

[jesserettele]

emilbus, here is a link to Richards pics that has torpedos.

http://www.maast.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Richard&op=modload&name= gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=2

[emilbus]

thats cool

[jesserettele]

I installed everything last night. About midnight I cranked it on and the plumbing was o.k. but the counter sunk O-rings leaked. I need to take off all the caps and put some silicone sealer in the counter sunk grove to try and eliminate the leaking. I also didn't wash my carbon good enough so I got a black cloud in my tank. Looked like Mt. St. Helens.

[jesserettele]

here are pics of the tubes that I finished.

[StoneTower]

Have you thought about adding a Ocean Clear 325 Filter or something similar after your pump, before the carbon tubes to keep "that black crud Richard told ....you.... about" out of the carbon tubes?

StoneTower

[matt]

Looks really good. I assume your flanges/end caps are some sort of PVC, right? So you were able to use PVC cement to make a good strong joint between the flanges and the tubes?

About the o-rings, unless you have a really accurate groove that's the right shape, they're likely to leak. You might try using flanges gaskets instead; they're a little more of a pain to work with as you need to punch holes in them for the bolts, and they make taking off the lid a bit of a chore. But, they'll really seal. For my skimmer lids and cups, I use 3/16" o-rings for 6" tube, and only because I have a nice "bull nose" bit that's the right shape for cutting the groove and a jig on the router table to make them accurately. For reactors I'll use either o-rings or gaskets; you don't have to take reactor lids off very often, but skimmer collection cups come off all the time. In this case I would go with the gaskets, especially if your groove for the o-rings is square, meaning cut with a normal straight router bit.

Anyhow, looks good and good luck with the project!

[jesserettele]

Have you thought about adding a Ocean Clear 325 Filter or something similar after your pump, before the carbon tubes to keep "that black crud Richard told ....you.... about" out of the carbon tubes?

StoneTower

The black crud is the by product from the bacteria living in the carbon, that is where it is made, I have two prefilters to keep all the large junk out of my pump and filtering system.

[jesserettele]

I got it in and no leaks, the problem was that the O-ring diameter was too small for the flange, I just sealed it with silicone and then pressed the lids with the O-rings on. Matt, the grove was cut with a round nose router bit that is 1/16" smaller than the O-ring, it was a press fit and doesn't leak between the )-ring and the lids, but leaked through the )-ring and the flange. Problem fixed now though, thanks for the help. This thing is really pushing some flow, once the white cloud of ph rock dust clears I will check and regulate my flow. The picture attatched is before I cranked it on, so no white cloud. Check my gallery for more pics.

[hobogato]

nicely done!

[Richard]

This thing is really pushing some flow


That's not good enough. You need to actually measure the flow. Get a 1 gallon container and time how many seconds it takes to fill from the output. Then calculate the gph.

The black crud is detritus broken down as far as it can be. Like compost/humus it will be dark brown to black if the system is working properly. If you keep the sponge prefilter clean you should not have much issue with buildup inside the canisters.

Looks really good Jesse. Very clean looking plumbing job!

[Richard]

One thing Mark and I have found when setting up a tank on this system is that your phosphate level will be high initially. This is because of two reasons. First, the carbon contians some phosphate (like all non acid washed carbons) which will be released into the water. Normally not enough to matter but since you are using so much it will be enough to cause an algae bloom. Second, the bacteria reduce nitrate and phosphate at a ratio of 4:1 respectively. And new setups don't seem to generate enough nitrate initially to lower the additional phosphate from the carbon.

So you can either do what I did and use a phosphate remover (phosguard, phosban etc.) for a couple of weeks or you can do what Mark did and just add more nitrate. He used water from his cichlid tank (super high nitrates) as topoff water for a few days and his phosphate levels dropped to undetectable.

Then your system should be balanced in regards to nitrate/phosphate reduction and you shouldn't have any major algae problems.

[cpreefguy]

Looks like a sweet setup!

[jesserettele]

This thing is really pushing some flow


That's not good enough. You need to actually measure the flow. Get a 1 gallon container and time how many seconds it takes to fill from the output. Then calculate the gph.

The black crud is detritus broken down as far as it can be. Like compost/humus it will be dark brown to black if the system is working properly. If you keep the sponge prefilter clean you should not have much issue with buildup inside the canisters.

Looks really good Jesse. Very clean looking plumbing job!

Thanks, it took about a month but it is finally finished. My wife had a lot of patients. The only reason I haven't checked my flow is because I am trying to clear out the white cloud from the ph rock. I will check it tonight. Mark and I figured one gallon in three seconds is roughly 10X flow for a 125 gallon? Does this sound right? What about the live rock water displacement, do I deduct water volume for that?

[jesserettele]

One thing Mark and I have found when setting up a tank on this system is that your phosphate level will be high initially. This is because of two reasons. First, the carbon contians some phosphate (like all non acid washed carbons) which will be released into the water. Normally not enough to matter but since you are using so much it will be enough to cause an algae bloom. Second, the bacteria reduce nitrate and phosphate at a ratio of 4:1 respectively. And new setups don't seem to generate enough nitrate initially to lower the additional phosphate from the carbon.

So you can either do what I did and use a phosphate remover (phosguard, phosban etc.) for a couple of weeks or you can do what Mark did and just add more nitrate. He used water from his cichlid tank (super high nitrates) as topoff water for a few days and his phosphate levels dropped to undetectable.

Then your system should be balanced in regards to nitrate/phosphate reduction and you shouldn't have any major algae problems.

Great, thanks Richard and Mark, you guys have been a big help and I appreciate all the free time that you give me for all my questions.

[Bill S]

1 gallon in 3 seconds is 1200gph. Pretty close to 10x.

[Richard]

What about the live rock water displacement, do I deduct water volume for that?


No. It is just based on the tank size. Guess he already factored in some amount of displacement.

If you close all but one of your outputs then that may affect the flow rate since they are only 3/4". What I did was just measure from each output and then add up the gph. Does that make sense?

[jesserettele]

Richard you were right, and yes it did make a difference. I measured one gallon in ten seconds (exactly), out of one of four outputs, then I multiplied that times four for a total of 24 gallons in a minute, and 1,440 gph. I am glad I recalibrated. Now I need to adjust my expensive gate valve to lower my flow. I owe that little pan world pump an apology I guess. I am figuring it out as we speak to get the correct flow.

[StoneTower]

"I owe that little pan world pump an apology I guess."

What model Pan World are you using?

Thanks,

StoneTower

[jesserettele]

Pan world 200ps. It is one step down from the 250ps. The 200ps is rated at 1750 max gph with a max head pressure rated at 39ft. The 250ps is 1900gph max flow with a max head pressure of 45ft. (Here is a decent short read on head pressure ( http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles%20PDF/headpress.pdf#search=%22head%20pressure%22 ) Richard and Mark got the pump for me so I don't know where to get one from, I think I paid under $250. It is nice a quiet compared to the Iwaki ones that I have heard and it also comes with a heavy duty 6ft. power cable.