Fogged over eyes?

[Euclid]

My Volitan Lionfish's eyes were very cloudy/foggy when I woke up this morning and he isn't being very active. I did dose the tank with kick-ick yesterday because the tang has ick. What could this be? What should I do? More medicine? Water change? Help! :(

[Euclid]

I just called aquadome and asked for advice - I did a water change and lowered the salinity to 1.018

[hammondegge]

this is one opinion from www.wetwebmedia.com



Question about Kick-Ick product (If it quacks like a duck)
Robert,
Can you please tell me exactly what ingredients are in the Kick-Ick product
and if any of these ingredients are harmful to any marine fish more
specifically ocellaris clown fish?
I have not received an answer yet from
Ruby Reef and I trust your opinion about the product.
<Mmm, am not surprised at the lack of response... a "proprietary" formula... that can best found out likely by posting your query on the various bulletin boards, chatrooms in the interest...>
I began treating my
72 gallon tank last Friday and after day 3 my clown fish turned white in
color and then died. My tank is well established running for 8 months and I
have had the clown fish for 2 months and he was very healthy up until
yesterday... dead. I have made no changes to my tank , salinity always at
1.018, PH 8.3 and Ammonia at 0, Nitrites at 0 and Nitrates at 10. The only
fish with Ick was the Gold Rim Tang and that's why I began the treatment. I
was originally going to quarantine him by removing him and placing him in a
treatment tank but I could not catch him because I have a lot of live rock.
Was treating my main tank a bad idea???
<Yes... almost always necessary to treat elsewhere... Please read through the many parts of our principal site having to do with marine parasite disease... starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
and following the links...>
Is this product to strong for some
fish like clowns?
<I don't use, endorse this product, this companies products.>
My damsels are also looking very white in color now too.
Please help.
<Search, study, read over the WWM site... Bob Fenner>

[Euclid]

So should I stop treatment?

[hammondegge]

I know very little about fish illness. Richard @ CB Pets is the 'Doctor'. you could give him a call. what kind of tang. IME i have found it best to let ick run its course esp with tangs. hippo or regal blue tangs are esp. susceptible. because one fish has it, doesnt necessarily mean the others will get it. the parasite is opportunistic and will jump on when the defensives are low. i think feeding well with garlic is the best remedy in most cases.

[hammondegge]

you could also post the questionn to wetwebmedia, esp. re: the lion. i think they give excellent advice.

[hammondegge]

and good luck with the tang and the lion

[Euclid]

It's a Blue Hippo Tang. Thanks for your help, I really hope these guys are all ok.

[hammondegge]

sorry, i meant to say that they are real susceptible, but most often they recover just fine.

[hammondegge]

try keeping some nori (soaked in garilic juice) hanging in the tank for the tang and soak all other foods in the garlic juice before feeding. the garlic juice that you can buy at HEB in the spice section is just as good as the gold plated garlic juice at the fish store.

[Euclid]

Turns out these are common beginning stages of Ick for Lions. They develop a mucus over thier eyes first and thier behavior matches that of mine. I'll just continue the Kick-Ick processes and I think everything should be fine! Yay! *crosses fingers*

[hammondegge]

sorry to hear that. good luck man.

[demodiki]

Kick-Ick is nothing but voodoo and black magic.

[Euclid]

Then why did 3 different stores tell me to use it over copper or cupramine or any other treatment?

[JeremyGlen]

Kick-Ick sorta works, but IME you have to double dose the tank. I have not had a problem with it killing anything in my tank. I would just do the garlic thing. Any time I see a fish of mine flashing or looking like they are getting ick, I start up the garlic for a few weeks or so and it always turns out fine for me.

[Euclid]

I've heard people talking about garlic but don't really know how to do it.
Do I get actual pieces of garlic, or crushed garlic, or garlic juice or what?
And I feed my fish frozen krill and these frozen algae cubes... how do I put the garlic in them?

[JeremyGlen]

I just have the Kent Garlic Extreme. You add like 2 drops of concentrated garlic juice to their food while its thawing out. As the food thaws, it absorbs some of the garlic, the rest just gets put in the tank when you feed the food. Everything goes nuts when you add garlic to the tank.

[Euclid]

Where could I pick up this stuff?
And by goes nuts you mean in a good way, right?

[hammondegge]

HEB, spice isle, McCormicks Garlic Juice. 2oz for -$2.
Kent Garlic Extreme 1oz -$12.95
same stuff inside

[JeremyGlen]

Yeah, thats true.

By go nuts I mean everything in the tank that moves, ie. crabs, fish, starfish, shrimp...., goes into hyper mode and tries to find food. The garlic is an appetite stimulant.

[jake]

I had a couple fish that ended up w/ the cloudy eyes. Eventually ended up swelling causing the fish to go blind and lose sight through that eye. The fish would end up losing their appitite and dying. It ended up being an infection called pop-eye, not sure about the spelling. I'm sure some lfs have heard of it, but not all have a treatment for it. I never treated the fish because it died within 2-3days. All I can say is good luck and hopefully the medicine you're treating them works.

[Euclid]

I just talked to Richard at CB pets and now it's sounding like Kick-Ick has somehow given my fish velvet... the lion is not doing very well at all.

I'm adding carbon, heating the tank a lot (84* or so) and doing big water changes... hopefully I'll be able to save these little buggers! :'(

[hammondegge]

i hope it turns out ok man.

[Euclid]

He is still alive.
His eyes are still very fogged over and he has a few small white dots on him, not sure if it's ick or velvet.
He has not eaten for 3 or 4 days.
Does anyone in the Austin area have a quartine tank that we could maybe put him in? I'd really hate to lose this guy! :(

[Euclid]

His fins are literally dissentegrating...
His activity level varies greatly from not moving at all to swimming about seemingly happily.
His color changes a lot too. He'll either be very dark red or very pale white.

[Euclid]

Any advice/suggestions/tips/help... ANYTHING?!

[hammondegge]

sorry man, i have no experience with that. just sold my QT setup, but i have everything for another minus the tank. if you want to grab a 10-20g at petsmart you can borrow everything else from me. oh, no light either but ypu dpnt really need that.

[Euclid]

I've got a 10g... you think I could borrow your stuff?
What should I do to get the tank up and running?
Throw some liverock/bed/water from the main tank in there?
Once set up, what could I do? Copper?

[hammondegge]

sent pm

[Richard]

I just talked to Richard at CB pets and now it's sounding like Kick-Ick has somehow given my fish velvet


No, it's not that it gave your fish velvet. Velvet is just another type of parasite that is similar (but worse usually) than ick. Velvet usually looks like you sprinkled powdered sugar over the fish where as icks look more like you sprinkled salt on the fish. Does that make sense? From your description on the phone it sounded like velvet and perhaps ick along with it. Although they are very hardy, lionfish are fairly sensitive to many medications. Kick-Ich is one of Ruby Reef's magic potions which they don't give the ingredients on so that why I said that it may have done more harm than good for your lionfish.

I wish you would have told me you had a 10 gallon tank. If you can change 75% - 100% of the water daily then all you need is an airstone to use it as a treatment tank. No need for fancy filters, liverock etc. Actually you do not want liverock since the meds will likely kill off some or all of the life on/in the rock.

Sounds like he has gotten a secondary bacterial infection (fin rot) now. I would put him in hyposalinity (1.010) and use antibiotics on him. Something like Furan II would be good.

Since your say he just has a few white dots on him now then your probably just dealing with an ick infection along with the secondary bacterial infection. So I would not recommend you use copper and just stick with the hyposalinity/antibiotic treatment. Lionfish are fairly sensitive to copper so you could kill him pretty easily if you get the copper level too high and without an accurate test kit that is easy to do.

If this was a butterfly I'd tell you to just put him down but lionfish are pretty resilient so there's a chance he could recover. Good luck! Send me a pm if you need a quick answer from me.

HTH

[Euclid]

Thanks so much Richard, you're amazing!

How slowly should I lower the salinity in this quarintine tank? I've got it at 1.017 right now. I plan on replacing 1 gallon of a time of salt water with fresh water, but how frequently should I do that? Every 1 hour? 3 hours? 10 hours?

[Euclid]

I went ahead and treated the water in the QT and now everything's blue! weeee!
I also put in 5 ghost shrimp and not only is he not eating them, they're crawling on him while he's swimming around! Should I go ahead and take these guys out now? How long after treating the water should I wait to do a partial water change? I don't want to waste the treatment but I also want to keep the water clean.

[Richard]

Yes, you should take them out. May be cute but ghost shrimp are carnivoruos so if they are riding around on him I don't think that's going to be too good.

Start the water changes tomorrow. Then retreat.

[Euclid]

Went ahead and put the ghosts in the tank with the eel and the tang... hopefully they'll be a nice treat for one of them.
I'll do a 50% change tomorrow morning before work and another after work. I'll treat again after the second change.

[Euclid]

His eyes are a lot less fogged over now and he's got less mucus on his body but he still isn't eating...

[Euclid]

A bit of an update, he looks as if he's back to health now! He's still very sluggish, though.
He seems to have developed a bti of an appetite again, although he still isn't eating.
I put some frozen krill in the tank and he went crazy! He swam up to the top and tried to eat but he kept missing, then he looked like he just ran out of energy and could no longer muster up the strength to swim up to the top.

I plan on picking up some live ghost shrimp today, hopefully they will get him excited enough to eat.

[hammondegge]

excellent news, hope he makes it

[Euclid]

He still isn't eating... He looks hungry because he keeps flapping his jaws when I put food in but he doesn't have the energy to actually get/eat the food. I've tried live food and garlic-soaked frozen krill. He's running out of energy fast. I know a lot of you people here know a lot about this kind of thing, please give me some advice!

[Euclid]

I've got to force him to eat somehow! help! Save this guy's life!

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cd699/pics/Picture%20781.jpg

[Instar]

He looks a little large for ghost shrimp to me. Try something a bit larger and fish like, like feeder fish of some kind.
If he is as large as the picture makes him look, he graduated from the baby food (ghost shrimp) a long time ago.
He may take them again later, but more than likely he is looking for something real meaty. I used to feed mine fat
finger mullet and gold fish.

[Richard]

Why don't you try 2 or 3 black mollies. Just get some big fat healthy ones and then acclimate them over to saltwater. That way they can just stay in the tank with him until he decide to make a meal of them.

[Euclid]

What's the best way to acclimate the black mollies over to saltwater?
Don't they have too much ammonia to be healthy for him?

[Euclid]

He's looking a lot better and has developed an appetite but he isn't eating. I'm not sure why, maybe because he cant see well with the Blue40, or maybe he just feels cramped in this little 10g. I am slowly bringing the salinity back up now and I plan on putting him back in the main tank soon. Hopefully being put back into his home will make it easier for him to eat. This is just my uneducated plan. Would anybody reccomend against putting him back into the main tank?

[Euclid]

He's Alive!
He's back in the main tank!
He's looking healthier than ever!
He's eating like a piglett!
Hoorayyyyyy!

[hammondegge]

Victory!

[Richard]

Yippee! What a long battle but you pulled him through. Congrats!

[Euclid]

Thanks so much, Richard! I couldn't have done it without you.
I thought this guy was a goner for sure! He didn't have a single bite to eat for more than 3 weeks!!!!
Wowza, what a trooper! Applause for the indestructible fish! :D


...So who's up for a class action law suit against Kick-Ick? :angry >_<