new dynamic duo

[hobogato]

well, i finally decided to take the kalk and calcium reactor plunge. built these over the last couple of days, recirculating pump for kalk reactor should be here tomorrow, all i am waiting on now is a float valve for the RO reservoir for it.

MATT THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP ON THAT!!

all of the expensive stuff for the calcium reactor should be here on monday, so i should be putting both reactors on next week

those with experience - would it be better to do them at the same time, or one at a time (a few days apart) any past experience or help is welcome - thanks

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/dynamicduo.jpg

[gjuarez]

Wow, very nice Ace. They both look very neat and proffesional. I need a dynamic duo too. Excellent work.

[Ping]

Nice, keep us updated on the progress.

[matt]

Looks good Ace, you're going to love the kalk reactor. I can't figure out the flow in your calcium reactor, are both tubes plumbed together? Usually you have one tube with circulation; that keeps the ph uniformly low throughout the tube, and then the efffluent exits that tube and goes into the bottom of a static tube, where it flows up through media with no circulation; in this tube there's a ph gradient; low at the bottom, higher at the top. I have mixed feelings about these dual tube reactors; it is true that the 2nd tube allows for higher ph effluent to enter your tank, but at some point the effluent can rise in ph to the point where calcium and cabonate ions come out of solution. I did a few tests on an old reactor I made a while back, and what I found was that initially there was a big improvement with the 2nd tube; effluent ph went from 6.6 to over 7.0 without an appreciable loss of effluent alkalinity. But, after a few months running, the ph did not rise as much (expected, as the static tube gets "saturated" with low ph effluent) and the alkalinity dropped somewhat. This I did not expect, until I found out that alkalinity test kits use an acid to test the sample's resistance to ph swings. Okay, so try testing a sample of water sometime with a little aragonite dust in it, and it tests off the scale, even though the aragonite dust does nothing for the ionic balance. It's just that the test kit will use up acid trying to "melt" the calcium cabonate, and this really throws off the test result. In the case of the reactor, my hunch is that when the media in the second tube was new, there was enough dust in it to throw off the alkalinity test a liitle.

[hobogato]

i have it set up right now to recirculate thru both tubes with the inflow from the tank into the bottom of the first tube along with the co2 injection and the effluent at the top of the second tube so it is farthest away from the injection of the co2. the thought is that the two tubes shoud both have a uniform ph. i figure that since i am running the kalk reactor also, they should work together pretty well to controll the alkalinity and pH in the tank.

[matt]

Okay, but I'm sure you know that you circulate water through the reactor with a pump and only feed tank water in at a drip.

[Richard]

I don't measure anything on the effluent, rather I measure my tank water to adjust the CO2 rate. For my 215 it's around a bubble per second to keep things around where I want them. After a couple of years I don't bother to test anymore. You might want to start off slower than that because of the way you have the two chambers setup. Mine are setup the way Matt describes.

If you do a good job keeping up with the kalk reactor you might use less co2 also.

The most important thing I have found is to change out the Ca reactor media at least every 6 months. When you change it you'll see that it has a mud like consistency so it is not delivering as much ca/carbonates etc. even though it looks like you have plenty of media left.

Currently I am using ph rock as a media but before that I used A.R.M. and also special grade aragamax. All have worked well for me but like I said my tank is older and I just eyeball it to see if things are going well so I couldn't tell you actual parameters with the different media. The special grade aragamax was the cheapest but becuase of the smaller grain size you have to either change it more frequently or take it out and rinse it every 2-3 months or it wil start channeling and you won't get much performance out of it.

[hobogato]

Okay, but I'm sure you know that you circulate water through the reactor with a pump and only feed tank water in at a drip.

yes, but thanks for the reminder.

[hobogato]

well, the kalk reactor is all hooked up and functional. no leaks, so im going to start tapering up the amount i drip per day. once i get the regulater, etc. for the calc. reactor on monday, i will get that going, and then i will be able to taper off of the B-ionic.

btw matt and richard, going on your expertise, i will configure the calc reactor the way you suggested, with only the first tube recirculating and the second one fed by the effluent of the first, with the effluent of the second dripping back into the sump.

any suggestions on a feed pump for the calc reactor that will do ok being cut back so much since it should be a slow drip?

[matt]

The best way to feed a calcium reactor that I know is to tee off a pressure line, like the output of your return pump, and use bushings to get the tee down to 1/4" female threads, then use a john guest ball valve fitting. On the reactor output you can use a pinch valve or even an air line valve. This way you can control the flow in and out of the reactor. If you send a little more in than you want out, it puts a little pressure in the reactor which seems to allow for better control of the drip out.

[hobogato]

thanks matt. have had the kalk reactor running for a few days now at about 1.5 gallons a day (slow drip of course), and i just tested alkalinity and pH last night, and all is good (9.8dkh, 8.3pH). once i get the calcium reactor up and running, ill push the kalk reactor up a bit.

[matt]

Running a kalk reactor is great; I"ve had mine going now for a month or so and I love it. For the calcium reactor I can offer one last bit of unsolicited advice, get a Dwyer flowmeter. (I think it's # RMA151 SS) You want the one that registers the smallest amount of gas flow, stainless steel. It was about $35 when I bought mine. You can use the flowmeter to regulate CO2 flow much more accurately and reliably than with most needlevalves in CO2 regulators. Just get tiny brass hose barbs (Lowes or HD) for the flowmeter and you can put it inline between the regulator and reactor.

To me the trick with trouble and hassle free calcium reactor use is to have a very reliable and consistent control over CO2 flow and effluent flow. Most people don't have that, that's when you get the ph swings, CO2 build up, etc.

[hobogato]

turned on the CO2 this morning. i have it set to 1 bubble per second and i have the pH controller set to 7.4 on the effluent of the second chamber. once it stabilizes at that pH, i will test the effluent of the first chamber to make sure it is at 6.5.

i have the water going thru the reactor at about 5 drips per second - to fast? too slow? anyone have an idea?

[matt]

Effluent flow through is all about effluent ph and alkalinity. Once you get your 1st chamber ph stable at 6.5-6.7 (depending on media, I used ARM and it seemed best at 6.6) test for effluent alkalinity; you can use the salifert test on the low resolution. It should be at least 25dkh. Then as it goes through the 2nd chamber the ph will rise of course, but the alk should stay about the same. Beware of false high alk readings, though, as any calcium carbonate dust in the effluent will through off the test result. For sure you're going to have dust for several days, especially in the 2nd tube. When I first set up my reactor, I got the ph right and was happy to see an alk reading of over 50dkh. and assumed I'd built the greatest calcium reactor in the world. A few weeks later it had dropped to near 30 at the same ph!

[hobogato]

thanks matt.

[hobogato]

well, got the reactor going, i have it plumbed so the first chamber is circulating and the second chamber is static. the effluent on the first and second chambers are the same :unsure i have the pH of them both at 6.9, and am slowly decreasing to 6.6 since im using ARM media. pH in my tank is a stable 8.2 in the morning and 8.3 at night. havent tested alkalinity yet - will do that this afternoon.

[hobogato]

ok, just tested everything and these are the results

tank:

pH = 8.3
alk = 9.8 Dkh
calc = 560

calcium reactor
1st chamber effluent:

pH = 7.0
alk = 28 Dkh

calcium reactor
2nd chamber effluent
pH = 6.7
alk = 25 Dkh

the calcium reactor results seem a little weird - i thought the 1st chamber (circulating) should have a lower pH than the 2nd chamber (static)

[matt]

I don't have an answer about lower effluent ph in the 2nd chamber. Can you describe exactly how the flow goes, including where the CO2 gets added? There is no flow between the chambers, other than the effluent output of 1st chamber (at the top) going into the bottom of the 2nd chamber, right? IOW it's exactly the same as if the two chambers were different reactors?

You have some really high calcium. You might let it come down a bit before you fire up the calcium reactor.

[hobogato]

I don't have an answer about lower effluent ph in the 2nd chamber. Can you describe exactly how the flow goes, including where the CO2 gets added? There is no flow between the chambers, other than the effluent output of 1st chamber (at the top) going into the bottom of the 2nd chamber, right? IOW it's exactly the same as if the two chambers were different reactors?

yes. the circulating pump input comes from the top of the first chamber and returns to the bottom of the first. the tank water is added after the pump output and then the CO2 is added before the bottom of the chamber. the effluent off of the top of the first goes to the bottom of the second chamber, and then the effluent to the tank comes from the second chamber.

i think the calcium is so high because i just started up the kalk reactor about 4 days ago, with new kalk in it. i am probably gonna dial them both (reactors) back just a bit.

on further thought, im not sure the calcium is really that high, we know how accurate those kits can be <_<

[hobogato]

just re-tested, pH in first chamber effluent is 6.8 and second chamber effluent is 7.0 maybe it just had to run a bit longer to start working right :huh i just started it this morning.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/dynamicdone.jpg

[hobogato]

well, this morning, all seems to be balanced out in the calcium reacor. pH in the first chamber is 6.6 and the effluent from the second is 6.9