Little Star fish and PH questions...

[betiuminside]

Hello all,

Fisrt question is: THere's little white star growing in my tank, some times they will have only 3 arms, sometimes 4 or 5, but they are very little and I never put in a star fish on my tank, is this safe? why they are growing out of no where?


Second, I just installed a phosban reactor, would this guy decrease the PH?

I have never been able to bring the ph higher than 8.0, I have used Different products but never... any other parameters I need to check on?

Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0 (Finally!!! )
Ph 7.8 - 8.0
Using RO/DI water from Walmart reading 7ppm
Aqua C EV-200 Skimmer
Fuge w/chaeto
6 fish

Thanks

[hobogato]

alberto - the starfish is probably and asterina of some kind. they drop off legs which grow into new starfish, and they are hitchikers in the liverock. there is some debate as to whether they are bad, i err on the safe side and take out all of them i see, because some people think they can inadvertantly cause STN in acros. others i have talked to believe that they dine on zoanthids, and still others say they are harmless.

as far as your pH, if you are having trouble getting it where it should be, you probably have low alkalinity. check it, and if it is low, you will need to add some buffer, or maybe switch salt. i had low alkalinity when i was using oceanic salt, but it came up when i switched to instant ocean.

[betiuminside]

Ace,

U DA MAN!

Thanks for your reply.

I research them by asterina and YES u are right!! that's whay I got!
I don't have SPS in my tank, but I will take them out anyways....

I am using Instant ocean salt already, but I will check the alkalinity on my tank.... Do you know what cause low alkalinity?

Thanks

[hobogato]

for me, it was the salt. some tanks jus run low on alkalinity for some reason. you may also try adding an air pump with an air stone in the sump/fuge, so the bubbles dont get into the display. that helped the pH on an old fowlr tank i used to have.

[betiuminside]

ok, thanks.... well actually the ph on my tank has never been higher that 8... ever.
Thanks!!! :D

[SGTDirk]

This is very interesting, because I'm having the same prob with all 3 of my tanks. PH is always 7.8. I add buffer and get it up to 8.2 before I go to bed and by morning it is back down to 7.8. I also use Instant Ocean salt, and do weekly water changes. I tell you what, this is been very frustrating trying to figure it out.

[Richard]

PH will always drop during the night. I always check ph later in the day after the lights have been on and use that reading as what I call my ph.

[SGTDirk]

thats what I do, I can put the buffer in at noon, and by noon the next day it's back at 7.8. I have no clue why. And it's all three tanks which is confusing me. I have a Nano with Corals and 1 green chromis. I have a 10 gallon quarenteen tank with a couple ghost shrimp and a HOT filter and I have my 50 gallon with a 20 long sump that has my 2 baby sharks, a yellow tang, and a clown. Everything on all tanks is at zero, except my ph which is at 7.8 on all three tanks. Let me know if anyone can figure out what I should look at.

[betiuminside]

Same thing here.... it doesn't matter at what time ... it always go back. Check the alkalinity... I'll do it tonight....

[matt]

Ph swings and somewhat low ph are not by themselves much of an issue, but they tend to be an indication of other chemical/water quality issues. If you have a low ph, the first thing to check is your alkalinity and calcium levels. None of you guys have posted those, although you're adding buffer. Check those levels and make sure your calcium is around 400 and your alkalinity is above 2.5 meq/l. You might find that the alkalinity drops much faster than the calcium. Once that's done, you should see some improvement in your ph, provided you don't have O2 levels depleted. For that, you can use a good skimmer or some other means of getting alot of air into your water, and (this is important) make sure that the air you're putting into the water is not elevated in CO2. In a tightly sealed house with several occupants, it's amazing how much CO2 can build up in our houses. Lots of reefkeepers have seen big ph raises by attaching a hose to their skimmer air intake and running it outside. Another thing is that DOM (dissolved organic matter) can really sap O2 levels and cause an increase in carbonic acid, which causes the ph to drop. If you don't have a good skimmer, you can either get one, or run some carbon, or both, to lower the DOM.

One last thing that will definitely help is to drip kalkwasser as a replacement for evaporated water. In my system I'm using IO, I have a skimmer, and I drip KW. My ph is about 8.3 in the morning and 8.5 or so in the afternoon. Since my tank is new, there are only a few coral frags so there's not too much photosynthesis going on, which tends to raise the ph when the lights are on.

[Bill S]

Kill 'em. Every single one.

[hobogato]

as far as your pH, if you are having trouble getting it where it should be, you probably have low alkalinity. check it, and if it is low, you will need to add some buffer, or maybe switch salt. i had low alkalinity when i was using oceanic salt, but it came up when i switched to instant ocean.

i agree matt ;)

[SGTDirk]

I could see some of what your telling somewhat, but I do have a protien skimmer running on my 50 and I'm running air into a powerhead on my 10. While I don't have a alkalinity and calcium level test, I'm still confused. I don't have corals in either my 50 or my 10, and I don't have any inverts in the 50. All three tanks I have are running differently. The Nano is a JBJ 24 gallon. With standard filtration. All three are set up differently with different types of loads. I don't even feed the shrimp in my 10 gallon so I'm not sure what DOM is in that tank, but it can't be much. All three tanks do have live rock, but the 10 has no sand. That is what is confusing me, all three tanks are run differently with nofactors that I can think of that they all run except the R/O water and the salt. But if it was the salt, I use Instant Ocean which is what you said you do better with. So what does that leave the R/O water?? It is a farely new unit that has run about 200 gallons through it. Any more ideas?

[Isis]

You should through the asternias into your fuge. They are great film algae eaters.

[matt]

I could see some of what your telling somewhat, but I do have a protien skimmer running on my 50 and I'm running air into a powerhead on my 10. While I don't have a alkalinity and calcium level test, I'm still confused.

There's your answer right there; you don't know what your calcium and alkalinity levels are. I think I said the first thing to do was to get those right. Once you've done that, if you still have a ph problem, just go down the list of thing I suggested and see if that helps. If you've tried all of those things and you still have low ph, including the KW, then I'll be confused right along with you!

[GaryP]

Alkalinity is depleted by things as simple as bacterial metabolism.

Bacteria produce CO2 and organic acids that deplete the alkalinity and cause a drop in pH. The natural trend in any aquarium is for alkalinity and pH to drop because of these factors. Even if you don't have corals in your tank, there is going to be some depletion by things like snails and coraline algae in addition to the what the bacteria use up.

You said you were adding buffer. My question is whether you were adding enough? How were you adding it? Was it being precipitated (a white cloud formed) because of the way you were adding it? How did you come up with a dosing rate without test data, the recommended amount on the label?

None of these answers can be answered without testing. There is a an old rule of thumb that I subscribe to. It is, "Don't add it unless you can test for it."

I don't intend to be overly critical, but you are asking us to help solve a problem without any information to base a recommendation upon. My best guess is that you are only adding enough buffer to cause a small bump in pH. As soon as that small amount is depleted the pH goes back to where it was before the addition without a net increase in alkalinity.

What I suggest doing to do enough testing so that you know what your daily and/or weekly alkalinity demand (depletion rate) is. Then you should match the rate that you are supplementing with buffer to this demand. By doing this, you keep a constant concentration and get away from a concentration roller coaster that can be harmful to some critters. This is especially true with alkalinity. Some critters are very sensitive to large swings in alkalinity.

[cbianco]

...I have never been able to bring the ph higher than 8.0, I have used Different products but never... any other parameters I need to check on?...

AND


...ok, thanks.... well actually the ph on my tank has never been higher that 8... ever...

If all else fails, check that your test kit is working properly. If you can, use a different (i.e. borrowed) test kit.

HTH! :)

Christopher

[hobogato]

ok, i am certain that some of those little buggers are causing problems. i just foun a 5 legged one munching on a zoa. it dissovled the top of the polyp before i found it stuck there having dinner. i will be more vigilent(sp?) now at taking them out.

[Isis]

ok, i am certain that some of those little buggers are causing problems. i just foun a 5 legged one munching on a zoa. it dissovled the top of the polyp before i found it stuck there having dinner. i will be more vigilent(sp?) now at taking them out.How do you know it wasn't munching on a zoa that was already dying?

[hobogato]

^^because it is now trying to open back up, and the entire colony is open and happy except for this one polyp right in the center of the colony.

[GaryP]

I have hundreds of Asterina in my tanks and the zoas are overgorwing the tank. So, go figure. All I ever see them eating is the film algae on the glass at night. They're all out when the lights come on.

Instar told me that they don't actually eat corals but that the slime trail they leave when they crawl across them can cause some damage.