your advice/critique for my tank

[saltcreepette]

You can click on my sig line link for extensive info on my tank as far as inhabs and equipment, and photos.

For those who dont know me, my name is Erin. I have been in the hobby for three years and have had several tanks (have moved a few times and played with different tank sizes and setups etc) This tank has been up for one year. some of the live rock is as old as three years. many of the fish and corals I have had for two to three years. I am just wondering what y'all would do differently if it were your tank. (not just for the problem of hair algae, but just in general)

Current problems are a hair algae bloom. Note that I have one snail and four hermits, and two cleaner shrimp in the tank so my cleanup crew is skimpy. I do have another cpr bak pak skimmer I could put on if you think its a good idea. Ive toyed with the idea of using a spray bar powered by powerheads but am not willing to install a sump or drill the tank. Feeding schedule has been heavy the last three weeks as I was trying to fatten up the foxface. Also the anthias requires three small feedings a day. Current food regimen is about one cube of mysis or formula 1 per day (sometimes a little less) and one 3x3" nori on a clip.

PS I know I am overstocked. Please dont flame me but please do make suggestions.

oh yes, paramaters are:
1.025
ph 8.3
amm 0 (aqu. pharm)
nitrite 0 (aqu. pharm)
nitrate around 20 (aqu. pharm)
mg 1120 (salifert)
ca 260 (aquarium pharmaceuticals...salifert test kit on the way)
alk 9.3 (salifert)

on and off for the past two months, I have dosed kents 2 part and used fiji gold LR supplement and red sea calcium+3 with no effect on my calcium levels.

All fish and corals seem happy (clowns regularly spawn) except I have had two leather corals fail to thrive over the past two years, not sure why.

If I think of anything else I will report.

[Flobex]

it looks good, but if it were my tank, i would add more live rock, to add more heigth to te tank, and maybe add a few bright colored corals.

[GaryP]

Erin, let me take a shot at this. Its good to see posting again.

1. Hair Algae - dues to excess phosphates. Try running a phosphate absorber. The other skimmer may help some as well. A refugium is another good idea to help reduce phosphates. This is probably the result of your feeding. Not that I'm saying what you are doing is bad. I feed heavily too, but you just have to compensate for it with a phosphate control strategy. A good ratio for clean up grew is 1-2/gal., so stocking up is definitely called for.

2. Nitrates - a bit on the high side. Again a refugium and more effective skimming will help. How deep is your sand bed? At least 4" of sugar fine sand is necessary to get effective denitrification.

3. Leather corals - Lack of growth could be due to a lack of light, low calcium, or a combination of both. Leather corals require calcium to grow too. They don't make a hard skeleton but they do create calcium carbonate spicules in their tissue. This is what makes them leathery. I once accidently overdosed calcium on my softy tank and my toadstool just exploded in size. You may want to consider switching to one of the high calcium reef salt mixes. Leather won't use calcium as fast as SPS so you may be able to address your calcium demand just with water changes.

4. I have run powerhead spray bars in the past and like them. I plan on including a spray bar as part of the closed loop on the tank I am now planning. There are a couple of problems associated with them though. The main one is maintenance. Remember that all pumps need maintenance and if you get your calcium levels back to where they need to be (at least 375 ppm) the spray apertures of the spray bar are going to scale up. I'd say go with it as long as you can address these issues.

[jc]

My hair algae problems went away when I started to use R/O water. Also I have a refugium with cheato that grows really fast. I think that it out competes the bad algae.

[blueboy]

have you been keping up withwater changes? i'd say add some rock, seriously stock up on your clean up crew, and maybe use some nitrate sponge to get the nitrates back in check, if the WC's don't take care of that. also check your phosphate, it may be high if your nitrates are that high, if so it's contributing to the algae problems.

[saltcreepette]

hi all. I use a 5 stage ro/di for water changes and topoff. (use a tds meter to be sure its working properly). I think youre right about the overfeeding and i had been slacking in the water change dept but am back on track with weekly 20% ones. I am going to switch to reef crystals or some other not insanely expensive reef salt. suggestions are welcome. I am placing an order for cleanup crew members in the recent austin group order. I do need to get a phosphate test kit. What is a nitrate sponge, I havent heard of that? I have been keeping an eye out for someone in austin selling live rock because I think I need more too. I dread the subsequent reaquascape project that will follow though. And I would like to get more corals but I am going to get the algae and nitrite and calcium issues in check before I do that.

keep the suggestions coming, thanks!

[GaryP]

Save your money on the phosphate kit. The best phophate kit is your eyeball. If you see green stuff growing all over your tank, you have a phosphate problem.

Check with Monica here. She usally has some good deals on LR.

What about your sand bed?

[saltcreepette]

I have probably less than 1/2 inch. I am not partial to using a DSB. I have read too many threads of people who have taken them out (and the gory details of how grody they were) because of the problems they had with them. I was reading richards thread about his sh tank and was thinking about using that filtration method to deal with nitrates (if I could find out where to get it). what other ways can you reduce nitrates?

[TruonkQ]

i've had this prblm too, I used something called a phosphate sponge w/ the powder package. It help'd stop the algea prblm very quickly, but you must follow the instructions. lol the other thing you can do is buy clams. All of mine are sitting in my sump now. Didn't want to risk the angel fish eating them.

[SGTDirk]

On a tank that size I like useing a biowheel HOT filter. Marineland makes the Emperor, and Penguin models. I never realized how much they biowheels worked until recently. Since I moved down here, I misplaced the bio wheels in the move and my nitrateds climed, I reinstalled them and in a matter of 2 days the nitrates draopped 10 ppm, and within 4 days they were gone.
As for your tank, I say what ever you like is great. I personally would also add more live rock, and some more colorful corals, but if you like what you've got, thats all that matters.

[GaryP]

I reinstalled them and in a matter of 2 days the nitrates draopped 10 ppm, and within 4 days they were gone.
I'm a little mystified by your experience here. Biowheels do not eliminate nitrates, they produce them. The bacteria that complete the nitrogen cycle in the step called denitrification require an environment that has low oxygen levels, such as a DSB. Biowheels are the exact opposite, the provide a very high oxygen level. I'm not saying that biowheels are bad. Quite the contrary. They are very efficient at what they do in smaller systems, which is convert organic waste and ammonia into nitrates. That's the first 3 steps in the nitrogen cycle. However, the last step is not accomplished by a biowheel. I would suggest that something else was happening in your tank that resulted in the reduction in nitrates that you observed.

[GaryP]

I have probably less than 1/2 inch. I am not partial to using a DSB. I have read too many threads of people who have taken them out (and the gory details of how grody they were) because of the problems they had with them. I was reading richards thread about his sh tank and was thinking about using that filtration method to deal with nitrates (if I could find out where to get it). what other ways can you reduce nitrates?
There are basically 6 strategies to controlling nitrates. Many people use a combination of these.

1. DSB - Yes a DSB can become "grody" but I think that's mainly the result of not having sufficient sand stirring critters like nassarius snails, hermits, and other detritus eaters. One question I will ask though is what makes you think that a shallow sand bed will become any less "grody" then a DSB. The source of the "grodiness" is detritus buildup. You end up with the same amount of detritus in a smaller volume of sand. Therefore, I would argue that a shallow sand bed can become "grody" faster then a DSB.

2. Bare bottom - This can be fairly labor intensive. The idea is to keep nitrates low by removing waste through siphoning, very large amounts of flow, and a large skimmer before it enters the nitrogen cycle. A well stocked refugium is also very helpful here.

3. The "torpedo" - This is the system being tested by Richard. The basic idea is that the denitrifying bacteria live inside carbon granules instead of in a DSB. The biology is the same and only the environment and amount of flow provided for them is different.

4. Sulfur reactors - See GreenMako's excellent thread on this system.

5. Refugiums - Macro algaes remove large amounts of nitrates and other nitrogen wastes as they grow. This macro can then in turn be harvested and used as fish food for herbivores such as Tangs and Foxface. The refugium can also incorporate a DSB which in turn aids in nitrate removal and also serves as a protected breeding ground for things like copepods.

6. Plenums - A plenum is basically an open space underneath a DSB that provides an area for denitrifying bacteria to live. Several people have had excellent results with this system.

[saltcreepette]

with a shallow sand bed there is less sand for detritus to become trapped in. you can siphon it or manually stir it with less effort thus either removing waste directly or through the hang on filter and/or skimmer. plus the cleanup crew doesnt have to dig to get to the detritus, just stir it a little bit.

I have used bare bottom method before but like sand on my bottom :D
I can show you pics if you like ;) (such a naughty girl, likes sand on her bottom and will show pics!)

[GaryP]

Uuuuuhhhhhhh!!!!! Your offer has left me speechless!!!

I know, me speechless? A MAAST first.

[SGTDirk]

Gary, another way to eliminate nirates is through a large surface area which allows nitrates to be dispelled into the air. Biowheels help by yes adding to the area that bacteria can grow to help with the nitrate cycle. But they also allow more air to come in contact with the water which greatly helps with the disipation of nitrates into the air. I have used many different types of HOT filters over the years, and the bio wheels make a HUGE difference in my opinion.

[saltcreepette]

hmmm that is something i have never heard of. I will have to check that out (the nitrate air thing).

ha ha gary! by the way, thanks, monica pmed me. I might just have to go LR shopping here soon. Also I would like to have a clam but need to get my calcium levels up to par definitely first.

[GaryP]

Gary, another way to eliminate nirates is through a large surface area which allows nitrates to be dispelled into the air.
I think you must be a little confused here. I think you are referring to gas exchange. Nitrate is not a gas, nitrogen is. Nitrate is a water soluble ion. That's sort like saying salt is removed because you have more surface area. Gas exchange is important with a biowheel because you are picking up oxygen that feeds the aerobic bacteria on the biowheel and getting rid of waste CO2 being produced by the bacteria.

[alton]

The way I control nitrates is water changes. If you are going to feed you are going to add phosphates to your tank, you will need to add something to take them out. I would rather have a little algae with fat fish than a perfect tank with skinny fish. Add some type of phosphate remover, do your water changes, add some cleaners(No Blue legs) and in months things will go back to normal. Just remember your troubles did not start over night it will take longer than a couple of days to fix it, good luck.

[GaryP]

Alton,

While I agree that water changes are an important part of the overall strategy for controlling nitrates, its not a very efficient way. Let me show you why. Say you do a 20% water change every two weeks and your nitrate level is 20 ppm. Your resulting nitrate concentration after the water change can be calculated by the following equation:

(80% X 20 ppm) + (20% X 0 ppm) = 16 ppm

If your increase in nitrates over the 2 week period between water changes is 4 ppm, then you have not made any headway in reducing your nitrates. You'll be back to 20 ppm again after 2 weeks. That's a zero net sum loss.

I'm certainly not arguing against water changes, but unless you are going to do some pretty drastic water changes to address a severe problem, its not a very efficient way to handle high nutrient levels. Upgrading your filtration system or installing a refugium is a lot more cost effective then constantly buying more salt and replacement filters for your RO unit.

That said, I would certainly recommend a series of large water changes if there was some sort of major upset in the system such as a die off or a tank that was recently moved. My comments here are directed towards your more common day in, day out chronic nitrate issue.

[alton]

Okay I am going against God again but here it goes, 20% water change every week until you get it down. And along with that you also get all your calcium, mag. and other minerals/suppliments back in check. Now if you are doing the water changes every week and still having Nitrate problems then you have a bigger problem? See Gary's(God) idea's. But it sounds like to me like you got laxed on your water changes and they (Nitrates) creeped up slowly but surely? Off the subject isn't it your turn to buy at Jacala's Gary?

[GaryP]

As a matter of fact I thought of that the other day (Jacala). I'll give you a call.

[saltcreepette]

ya i slacked off. I was doing maybe monthly 20% ones for about a year there.
I was reading some stuff and it looked to me like maybe a less frequent but larger water change schedule would be more effective at removing nitrates because you are removing more of them at a time rather than just diluting them a little bit. So, what I will do is, add the other skimmer, run carbon two weeks out of four, reduce feeding a bit (still 3x daily but less quantity) do weekly 15 gallon water changes for a couple months (which amounts to about half my water volume), and I am ordering some cleanup crew, but I did request blue legs. WHATS WRONG WITH BLUE LEGS? tell me now before the order's placed! Suggest an alternative please!? thanks so much for all you guys' help.

[GaryP]

Blue legs are good for hair algae. The problem comes when they run out of algae. They have a tendency to turn on each other, which is OK until the next algae problem comes along. On the other hand, if you are feeding as often as you say, they will be OK just cleaning up the detritus and left over food.

[JeremyGlen]

I would suggest getting an overflow and running a simple little 10-15 gallon tank under the stand as a refugium. It won't cost you much, and it will greatly improve the quality of your tank. Growing the macro algae in the fuge would be a great source of food for your foxface and tang. It is actually more healthy for them to eat that(macro that helps guard against HLLD) over them eating the sheets of algae.

I have been a little lax lately about my water change, especially since my friend borrowed my buckets and hasn't brought them back. On my little system, feeding every other day on average, it has been almost 4 weeks since a change and my nitrates are just barely reading 5ppm. The cheato(which wouldn't be good for you cause the fish won't eat it) grows pretty fast and I pull out a nice bag full every month or so.

Another benefit to the refugium is an added surface area away from those MH. Do you have a problem with heat? You must have a great fan system on there to keep it cool with that hood on it. The fuge would help stabalize the temp a little better.

[TexasTodd]

Suggestion.

Instead of 20% water change per week, go to 50% water change every two weeks. Works better;)

Clean up crew: 1 astrea per gallon, 2 Cerith per gallon, 1 Red leg hermit (scarlet) per 2 gallons, 1 emerald crab per 10 gallons, 1 sally Lightfoot crab per 20 gallons.

Todd

[saltcreepette]

nah i dont have a heat problem. Pete built me a great hood, it has a long oval shaped hole in the top for the heat to rise out, plus I had him install a fan on each end (one sucks cool air in and the one on the opposite end blows the hot air out) and I dont have heat problems at all.

I toyed with the idea of putting a fuge in but space is a real issue for me. I could fit one under the stand, but then I would have to drill my tank and get a return pump and that means a whole lot of trouble and potential chaos. I also thought of putting the fuge (10g tank with one hole drilled) above the water level of my tank, getting a powerhead to pump tank water from the 55g to the 10g and the hole in the 10g would drain back into the main tank. that however means having to build a high stand and have another tank next to my main tank and I simply dont have the room. I run a small daycare out of my home and my home is only 1200 sq. ft as it is.

the only option I see would be to get one of those hang on the back fuges with a small light over it. will have to see if I can find a good deal on one.

I do have one small hunk of chaeto in my tank that has not grown to speak of in the last 8 months or so. I cant explain why that would be.

Hey, since I have two bak pak skimmers, couldnt I just put the macro algae in the non-bubble side of the skimmer, and put a small light over it and use THAT as my fuge?? I am so smart it kills me.

[Brett Wilson]

saltc, I am thinking about going to a refugium under my tank instead of the hang on refugium I have now. When you pick up your critters on friday you can look at it to see if it's something you'd like before I list it for sale. it's the medium sized CPR fuge, I think 12" wide.

[GaryP]

Foxface will eat Chaeto....

Foxface will eat anything.

[saltcreepette]

well if foxface eat anything i wish mine would go to work on my darn nuisance algae. :(

ok brett, i will take a look.

[saltcreepette]

aw man, my husband picked up the critters and I didnt get to take a look at the hang on fuge. I actually went and got an indoor/outdoor spot lamp to put over the bak pak like I mentioned earlier and stuck the chaeto in there. so I will see if it starts to grow. I also did add the second skimmer, used a blade attatched to siphon tube and scraped/sucked all the hair algae and some cyano off the back glass during my 20% water change, added the cleanup crew (about 25 blue legs, an emerald, 5 more snails, 12 nassarius....but I think I need more.) this weekend I will get a phosphate absorber, look into a nitrate sponge, whatever that is, get another bag of sand, and put in an order for a couple more powerheads so I can install a spraybar near the bottom of the tank flowing forward so the detritus settles near the front of the tank where I can siphon. question though: My rockwork is pretty open, and I can see behind most of the rocks, and I dont SEE any detritus. Does that mean it isnt there, or is it just hard for me to see? Also, does a bit of old snail/crab poop (I left out fish because supposedly poop on the reef gets eaten several times in the food chain by detritus eaters) really continually negatively affect things/drive up the nitrate? I guess what I am saying is, would installing a spraybar (and the resultant tearing up of the rockwork) be of negligible value when compared to stressing out the inhabitants, or do you think it would be worth it (esp when you think of the maintenance of cleaning the pumps/spraybar)? Thank you all for reading and responding, I really appreciate it. And I AM trying to find a home for my anthias if anyone wants him, see the picture in for sale/trade!

[saltcreepette]

Oh yeah, my calcium is low and I havent gotten a handle on it yet. I need to get the name of a GOOD reef salt that has sufficient levels of CA from the get go! my IO is testing at 260 freshly mixed! So please make suggestions. So far am thinking reef crystals, but what do y'all use that you KNOW has good CA levels? I would LOVE to have a clam when the levels are up.
Because I know I want to get some more corals in there, I need to know which soft or LPS you'd recommend for color (bright pink or green or blue).

[GaryP]

Reef Crystals or the new Seachem Reef salt.

[saltcreepette]

thanks. I was also hearing some great things about Tropic Marin.

As far as corals, I think a red branching gorgonian would look wonderful on the left side of my tank. I just need to fine a photosynthetic one that does well in captivity. I have a pterogorgia (purple sea whip) that I've had for about two years that has done very well despite it being supposedly difficult to keep. So maybe I could do a pseudopterogorgia or something. Supposedly ones with thick branches, brown polyps and are from the Atlantic tend to do better.

Also, I would love to have a nice coco worm. and some bright ricordia, some green skirt zoas with the orange centers, some tonga blue mushrooms, or some bright porites or fungia. Anybody got frags of these I can buy? Maybe I need to be posting in the 'wanted' section ;)

by the way I went and got some kalk mix but I am hearing that is good for maintaining calcium levels, not raising them. Has anyone tackled a low calcium problem and if so, how did you raise it??? I want to be a little more proactive than waiting for water changes with a new salt to bring it up, esp since I have 150 gallons of IO left still.