ASM G4 plus?

[GeoB]

I'm looking for a skimmer for my 180. Does anyone have any input on the ASM G4 plus? It uses a Sedra 9000, and cost with mods is ~$400. For another $400 I could get a Euroreef which uses a SP4 pump, or for $800 more I could get a H&S or Deltec which use a Eheim 1260. These skimmers are all recirc and rated for 250 to 300 gallons.

I seem to recall some bad things said about the G4, but I don't know if ASM has remedied the problems?

I'm looking at needlewheels for the energy efficiency and lower noise levels. Any input on this?

H&S has a skimmer rated for 225 gallons with an AquaBee 2001 (38 watts) for $650. Think this would out perform an ASM G4?

[brewercm]

I haven't used the G4 series but I love the my G3.

[cpreefguy]

I love my G3 too, solid skimmer.

[hammondegge]

veedub was looking for a buyer for a MRC-2 and GRI pump $225 total (rated to 300g)

[GeoB]

I've heard a lot good things about the G3, but I haven't heard much about the G-4.

I haven't looked much at the MRCs, sounds like a good deal, I'll have to check those out.

[hammondegge]

pm me for his phone if you are interested. he hasnt been on maast for a while

[matt]

In terms of performance, probably the ASM would be comparable to a euroreef of the same size with the same pump; the design is very similar, it's just that ASM uses much cheaper materials (extruded acrylic). It's likely that the euroreef would take abuse without cracking over the long run better. With the needlewheel skimmers, it's all about the pump and venturi in terms of performance. The stock sedra venturi that's used on both the ASM and ER is just okay IMO; I've now made a few needlewheel skimmers that use the sedra 5000, 30" tall, 6" tube. I notice almost no difference between recirculating and just running straight with this pump and tube size combo, which I did not expect but that's the way it seems to be working. If I were to build a NW skimmer with a bigger pump, I'd want to experiment with a much better venturi; first choice would be a mazzie injector that could screw right into the pump input.

I'd probably give a pretty close look at the skimmers using the aquabee pump, because everything I've heard is that it's much better than the sedra or gen-x pumps used on the euroreef. I personally have never seen one in action so I can't comment. I do know this much, though, deltec uses extruded acrylic...when I heard that one I had a pretty good laugh. Supposedly it's some sort of special german plastic that is made to much higher standards than the extruded acrylic sold here in the U.S., and I guess that's possible.

What would not surprise me, and I'm just guessing here, is that the aquabee pump is somewhat better than the others, but the venturi is way better and that's why supposedly the performance of the deltecs and similar is better. Never underestimate the importance of hype in this hobby, though!

Regarding power and noise levels, I don't think the difference is as great as many people say. I know for a fact that the smaller beckett skimmers I used to make (34" total height) work great on a 180 and are best matched with an iwaki 40rlt (or pan world100px) which is 120 watts, while the gen-x pump on the ER you'd be considering is 60 watts. 60 watts difference is not that big a deal in terms of electricity, and for sure the pan world is not significantly louder than the sedra 5000 I'm currently using on my small NW skimmer.

I'd offer to build you a nice needlewheel skimmer with 8" tube, but I'm really slammed into mid July so it will be at least that long before I could do it, and since I use 1/4" wall cast acrylic tube, it's pricey; the 8" is about $60/ft if I remember. One thing I've done with the smaller NW skimmers I've made is to make a small box under the tube so that all the plumbing goes through flat cast acrylic, and there are no holes in the tube, which is the prime leak and crack place for ER.

[GeoB]

Thanks for the good info, Matt! Your findings on the recirculating are interesting. Recirculating sounds good in theory, but I can't say I have read any strong evidence that supports it. The fact that the cream of the crop BubbleKing skimmers are not recirculating makes me wonder as well. What you said about the aquabee reafirms my interest in going with something besides a sedra powered skimmer. I'd like to go with the H&S A200, but it is a big price drop to the next size down A150. I just realized I'm focused on the recirc skimmers, H&S has an in-sump equivalent to the A200 that is closer to my price range, but it is also 6" shorter. :wacko Thanks for the build offer, I've heard your stuff is great.