ESV B-ionic vs Kent Tech CB

[hammondegge]

I switched from using the Kent about a month ago. My PH seems to fall further with the ESV. Kent was typically 8.2/7.9. ESV usually produces 8.1/7.75. Has anyone else experienced this? also i used to dose every few days with the kent and now dose every day or more with the ESV. is ESV a weaker solution?

[GaryP]

Have you checked your alkalinity?

[hammondegge]

alk is 8-9dkh and magnesium is over 1200

[GaryP]

If your only real problem is pH, I would suggest just adding a little washing soda or Kalk to boost the pH.

[hammondegge]

thanks

[PeeperKeeper]

What's washing soda?

[Richard]

With the mild weather many people are having lower ph due to higher CO2 levels in their house. I'd open up some windows and see if you ph goes up before adding more buffers. With your dKH @ 9 you should be around 8.2 - 8.3 ph unless you have excess CO2 or have gotten things really out of whack from dosing chemicals (i.e. really high boron levels).

There's a graph showing where your ph should be at given alk at normal co2 levels. Low ph when alk is normal is almost always a co2 issue.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

[LoneStar]

Great link Richard!!

[hammondegge]

thanks richard - i will check that out.

[hammondegge]

i switched back to the Kent and i am reading 8.0/8.2 with half the dose of the ESV daily. did i get a bad set of ESV B-ionic?

[GaryP]

i switched back to the Kent and i am reading 8.0/8.2 with half the dose of the ESV daily. did i get a bad set of ESV B-ionic?
Not necessarily. These products are not necessarily a 1:1 equivalent. It may just take more ESV then the Kent product to achieve the same result. I checked on one website that I know of to see if there was a comparison. They had the data for ESV, but not the Kent product. It would be easy to run a test though. Just add equal amounts of both products and test before and after the addition to see what increase in levels you get from them. If you divide the results you get, it should give you a rough ratio of the concentration of the two products. Further, you can multiply the costs of each product to get some idea of which is most cost effective.

Richard has a good point on the CO2. With windows closed this time of year, the CO2 in the house should be going up. I know that NaCl_H2O had the same problem and came up with a partial solution by pulling air to the skimmer from the attic which should lower CO2. A large percentage of the gas exchange taking place is going to occur in the skimmer. Also, a refugium should also help even out swings in CO2, both on a daily basis, and on a seasonal basis.

[GaryP]

What's washing soda?
Chemically known as Sodium Carbonate. Otherwise known as soda ash or Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda. Its sold as a clothes washing "Booster." Available at HEB on the clothes washing aisle with the misc. products. You'll usually find it close to the Twenty Mule Team product, which interestingly enough is a minor component of the sea water buffer system (sodium borate.)

Sodium Carbonate is the higher pH component of the buffer that is present in sea water. Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) is the lower pH component. A solution of sodium carbonate has a pH of around 10.0.

The pH of salt water is determined by the ration of CO2, bicarbonate, and carbonate. What Richard was referring to is that a high CO2 content in the house may cause the balance of these components to be pushed towards the bicarb and CO2 side of the equilibrium and thus resulting in a lower pH. There is two ways to correct this. 1. By reducing the amount of CO2 with a fresh source of air, or removing the CO2 with a refugium. 2. By adding the carbonate to push the equilibrium back towards a higher bicarbonate/carbonate ratio. Products such as Kalk and washing soda neutralize CO2 (actually carbonic acid - H2CO3) and form bicarbonate.

When CO2 dissolves in water, it reacts with water to form carbonic acid.

CO2 + H2O ----> H2CO3

That's part of the reason why carbonated beverages like sodas and beer have a low pH. When Carbonate reacts with Carbonic acid, you get 2 bicarbonate molecules.

H2CO3 + CO3 -----> 2 HCO3

All a buffer does is move hydrogen atoms around between molecules in an attempt to maintain a stable pH. Its like a bungee cord that is trying to snap back into place. pH is a measure of the hydrogen concentration in water. The thing to remember is that pH is a logrthmic (sp?) scale. That means that at a PH of 7.5 you have a hydrogen concentration that is 10 times as high as it is at 8.5. That is why small changes in pH can have such a large impact and partly why we do things like acclimate new critters to the new water in a tank. The high CO2 levels of bag water may result in a pH that is quite a bit lower than that of an open, well aerated system in your tank.