Opinion Poll

[GaryP]

In case you haven't seen it, we are asking for your opinions in the MAAST announcement forum. We are asking for the opinions of both charter and web members. The thread can be found here:

http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=18868

Please follow the link to the poll itself.

[MattK]

I'm sorry, but was this thread necessary?

[don-n-sa]

I'm sorry, but was this thread necessary?

apology accepted , and yes it was ;)

[MattK]

Why? Just to show where the poll is? It's on the latest forum postings. Everyone can see it.

[carlinsa]

cause gary needs to add more numbers to his post count. that is why it is necessary

[MattK]

And Don

[GaryP]

It WAS necessary because no one seems to be participating in the poll.

I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt and assumed that was because you didn't know it was there. At the time it wasn't showing up on the most recent post list. So I started another thread.

Like I said I gave most of you the benefit of the doubt and didn't just assume it was the result of total apathy on your parts. If you had seen it and participated then it was obviously not necessary for you. A ot of people never look at anything besides general, for sale, and group order forums.

[don-n-sa]

It was obviously neccessary because some members only check the current threads that are showing up on the front page. I know that I missed it, so thats at least one.

The only thing that was not neccessary was your comment. Do you actually think that Gary (or myself)cares about post counts...lol thats funny, grow up man. We finally have gone a good amount of time without somebody starting some childish BS like this and here you go. Or is that what you wanted to do in the first place?

[MattK]

Hold up, wasn't trying to start anything and don't try to talk to me like a little kid because I'm not. I just saw it as redundant to have multiple threads to show where one thread is. I could care less about your post count. I think the reason people are not participating is because they don't care. You should try to do most of the stuff on that list anyways. Also, it's a holiday weekend and a lot of people are out of town.





It was obviously neccessary because some members only check the current threads that are showing up on the front page.

^^^Bump it.

[NaCl_H2O]

You should try to do most of the stuff on that list anyways.
What! Are you insane!!!

The second part of the original thread was to solicit participation - The BOD is a few folks with minimal spare time that needs to be spent on the business side of the club & facilitationg these activities.

Member action is needed to get even a handful of these items handled this year!

[GaryP]

The poll has been up for almost 3 days and about 17 people have taken the time to vote on the poll. I realize that its a holiday weekend and all,but I can pretty comfortably assume that more then 17 have logged in in the last 3 days.

[GaryP]

There is another issue here. Is it worth the time and effort that is necessary to organize some of these larger events and activities if only 17 people are interested enough in them to take the time to vote on the poll. Admittedly a lot of people aren't logging in this weekend but still the level of activity here isn't really inspiring.

Having been involved in the planning and execution of some of these types of events in the past I can say, speaking for myself, that my level enthusiasm wouldn't be sufficient to bust my donkey to pull them off.

[don-n-sa]

wasn't trying to start anything and don't try to talk to me like a little kid because I'm not.

I have no idea how old you are , I just know how old you are acting. If you are not trying to start anything , then what is it that you are trying to do exactly? Just trying to point out that Gary should of just bumped it ? I doubt it.

[don-n-sa]

I think the reason people are not participating is because they don't care.

Speak for yourself

[GaryP]

I just checked the view count. Almost 300 views, and 17 individuals voting. So much for the theory that everyone is out of town.

[JimD]

Admitedly, there seems to be a lot of apathy when it comes to participation from maast members when it comes to taking time to do much more than replying to posts or general discussion. Take the TOTM program for example, a lot of work went into designing it and even offered cash to generate activity but still, hardly anyone bothered to take the time needed to submit a tank and thanks to those who did. Seems most members are just casual bystanders with no real interest in routine participation, the old "leave it up to someone else" syndrome. Theres not a whole lot you can do to remedy the situation, its totaly up to the individual member to put forth the effort and be an "active" member, not just an occasional blurb on the screen. I feel that his question had a certain ammount of legitimacy due to the fact that with the pm reminders and the polls easily available, if someone ws going to vote, every opportunity was already in place. You cant force participation, it has to come willingly.

[NaCl_H2O]

Jim, very well said!!!
If anyone has noticed, the BOD has been "pushing" a few buttons to see where our members stand in regards to making this a "participatory club", or a Website with an occasional meeting ... looking pretty clear from where I stand? But, I would love to be proven wrong!

Those that do help/participate, please don't take this the wrong way - thanks for all you do!

[don-n-sa]

TOTM is quite different.
The poll that we are talking about will help the BOD decide on what to spend MAAST's time and money on. What else could be more important than that?
I took Gary's post as just another way of bumping , whoever has a problem with that obviously is mad about other things and is just using this to show it , I mean come on, it was just a reminder post.

[JimD]

TOTM is not different at all! Its a prime 'example' of the lack of interest/participation that this club so desperately needs. It IS an issue that the BOD needs to address, otherwse it woudnt be on the list.

[MattK]

I just checked the view count. Almost 300 views, and 17 individuals voting. So much for the theory that everyone is out of town.

Then I guess it must be the other option. Maybe people just want to talk about reef related topics and not have to take a poll every five minutes on what the club should be doing behind the scenes.




And Don, I asked a question and you gave a smart *** response and didn't give a reason why the post was necessary.

[don-n-sa]

I disagree

TOTM- submit your tank for a prize -

Opinion Poll - help the BOD decide on what to spend MAAST's time and money on?

Does not even come close IMO :)

[don-n-sa]

And Don, I asked a question and you gave a smart *** response and didn't give a reason why the post was necessary.

Hmm... I guess you missed my answer



It was obviously neccessary because some members only check the current threads that are showing up on the front page. I know that I missed it, so thats at least one.

[MattK]

How much time would it take to say "Hey guys TOTM isn't doing so well. Lets have a multiple tank contest. We could have one for SPS and one for softies or maybe nano tanks". Then just write a little thread about the new addition. If it works great. If it doesn't try something else next month.

[MattK]

I'm sorry, but was this thread necessary?

apology accepted , and yes it was ;)



No Don, I was referring g to this one.

[cbianco]

How much time would it take to say "Hey guys TOTM isn't doing so well. Lets have a multiple tank contest. We could have one for SPS and one for softies or maybe nano tanks". Then just write a little thread about the new addition. If it works great. If it doesn't try something else next month.

I agree with you Matt. Unfortunately, this club seems to thive on controversy.

I have seen in many places, club members saying that we should move away from the arguements (and other "crap") and talk about marine aquariums. I have been posting to my "tank redo" thread and no one is responding (except for only a few people). If people really wanted to move away from the arguements then why is my thread mainly populated by posts from myself? I have asked many open ended questions and still can't get a response.

Overall, it seems that if your tank is not 150 gallons large and you don't have to "rebuild" your house just to install it, then you are not an important contributing member.

Just my opinion!

Christopher

[cbianco]

Just an FYI, I love MAAST. I am not sure that the club is currently going in the correct direction.

Christopher

[MattK]

Well said.

[don-n-sa]

Overall, it seems that if your tank is not 150 gallons large and you don't have to "rebuild" your house just to install it, then you are not an important contributing member.
Just my opinion!
Christopher

I believe that we have had a few nano's win the TOTM here on MAAST , I know that Cmydas was one of them.

Sometimes I feel the same way about non-SPS dominated tanks, thats part of the reason that I have never submittted mine.

[carlinsa]

i think tank of the month would have more people try to submitt if there was less description needed. with tank of the month why do you not just pull a winner from the gallery. and just say suprise you are the winner.

[JimD]

So you think that just because your tank isnt sps dominated it doesnt qualify for tank of the month??? Did you happen to read the totm introduction page? You say 'part' of the reason, Id be interested in the other part(s). This is the kind of feedback Ive been looking for since the onset of the program. Don, rather than clutter this thread, could you please post your ideas in the totm forum? Im very interested.
Christopher, thats so not true, what ever gave you such an idea?

[MattK]

Sometimes I feel the same way about non-SPS dominated tanks, thats part of the reason that I have never submittted mine.



I feel this way also. I know that you encourage everyone to submit their tank for TOTM but because my tank isn't huge and doesn't have expense rare corals I feel that it is inferior. Also, I have nothing to describe. It's a stock Nano Cube with a cassette tape surface skimmer. It may not be much but I love it. Further more, I agree with Chris. This is why I'm asking for a Nano Forum. Some people (4) don't like the idea. Don't know why, but whatever.

[JimD]

You said something very important, "but I love it" that alone negates all reasons not to submit your tank. It really doesnt matter what other people may think, its what you think that matters. If you have so much passion to say you love it, how can other people not love it also? Its all about personal expression, not about keeping up with the Jonses.

[MattK]

//wait for crowd to stop cheering.
Soap box open? ok

// Steps up on soap box
Well said,Your tank is awsome! Lets have a softies TOTM. Ya know something different. Next topic...
// Climbs down off soap box

[MattK]

I read your post and I understood it. Maybe we're not on the same page. I was suggesting making an announcement stating that this months TOTM is specifically for Softies or Nanos. Just a suggestion, what harm could it do?

[gjuarez]

I love reading TOTM and I would hate to see it go away because lack of interest. I will go ahead and submit mine in a couple of months once the frags have grown a bit. I seriously doubt that having different TOTM criterias would work, its tough as it is to get people to submit with just a general TOTM.

[JimD]

To specify a certain topic or 'theme' for totm would limit the number of potential submissions to an already weak intrest forum. TOTM is non specific. It doesnt matter if its a softy tank, mushroom tank, even planted tanks or whatever, totm is about diversity and experiences. All submissions will be considered,,, peroid!

[MattK]

If what we have now is not working, why not try something different?

[MattK]

it could possibly work but then you are limiting the people who can post


Nobody post now, that's the problem. Then next month change to something different. Just try it.

[gjuarez]

Something different? I dont know if that will be the answer. It seems that people just dont care anymore about the overall wellness of the organization. MAAST is being taken for granted. The evidence is in the threads and the lack of interest in reef related threads. I have made some attempts at bumping and starting reef related threads and people dont come through. Its hard to make something like TOTM successfull when people just dont care. We need more people to be proactive.

[MattK]

So, is this how the meetings go? Y'all shoot down ideas and suggestions because what you have now is working so well? Don't even want to give it a try. Something needs to be done and I don't here y'all making any suggestions.

[NaCl_H2O]

MAAST is being taken for granted ... We need more people to be proactive.

Bravo, Bravo :) There is "ONE" that "Gets It" :D

Well said Jerry!

P.S. Sorry for not being more active in your reef related posts, I was probably reading page after page in "some other topic" ;) I promise to jump in on the next one 8)

[NaCl_H2O]

So, is this how the meetings go? Y'all shoot down ideas and suggestions because what you have now is working so well? Don't even want to give it a try. Something needs to be done and I don't here y'all making any suggestions.
Well Matt, TOTM did Ok for many months, then dropped off. We had Nanos, FO, SPS, Softies, Jim's cylinder tank, etc. Concentration in one type of tank might be good, but we haven't even received enough PMs or posts in TOTM forum to think anyone was interested. The TOTM program is all but dead ...

Here is a thought, you as a Member are free to rally other members into getting this going agian. Why don't you start a topic, challenging folks with Nano tanks to submit - if you got 2-3 entries, it would basically be a Nano TOTM Month. Then next time, do the same with Softies.

... or better yet, volunteer for the TOTM Committee and you can implement all your great ideas with JimD!

[gjuarez]

Matt, I dont know about the others but i really appreciate that you care about making things better. We are not shooting down your ideas. I am a little frustrated because of the fact that people show absolutely no interest and sometimes that can make people feel helpless.

[GaryP]

Folks, the whole purpose of the Poll was to get feedback on what could be done to improve the club and make it more worthwhile to you. We just went through a couple of threads where there were a lot of people posting about how the club was not worthwhile to them to pay $25 to support it. So what did we do? Ask for your input to see what everyone wanted to see the club working on. When we ask, not may took the few minutes to provide an answer.

Some people would take that as an indication that a lot of people could care less about the club and their previous posts were just an excuse for why they didn't want to cough up a mere $25. I would hate to think this was the case but I'm sure some people might come to that conclusion.

Before I am misquoted, let me clarify one thing. The purpose of the poll is not about increasing membership. If that happens, its a nice side benefit. The purpose of the poll is to get feedback on what you would to see happen to improve both the club and the website.

[GaryP]

If nothing else. we are over 30 voters.

[witecap4u]

i think tank of the month would have more people try to submitt if there was less description needed. with tank of the month why do you not just pull a winner from the gallery. and just say suprise you are the winner.

Im with Carl on this one!!!

Im always taking tank pics, but it took me almost a year to actually get my tank submitted, after I be came a charter member...

However, one thing about going through the gallery is that I and probably others have pics of other peoples tanks, or actual reef shots posted in our gallery. I dont mind if anyone uses any of my pics for whatever they want, but I dont want to be given credit for someone else's tank.

cs

[NaCl_H2O]

i think tank of the month would have more people try to submitt if there was less description needed. with tank of the month why do you not just pull a winner from the gallery. and just say suprise you are the winner.
I'm sorry, but y'all are missing the whole point of the TOTM!

This isn't about "Look at my tank", you have a gallery for that!

This is about "Educaton", and that is why the description is actually more important than the pctures. Yes, we offer "Prizes", but only to entice folks to enter so we get the educational content. In all reality, we shouldn't have to offer ANYTHING for TOTM entries, our members should be excited about submitting for the educational benefit to folks browsing MAAST.

[MattK]

thats what this post was in reference to in the begining when you said "what is the purpose of this thread"


No that was the purpose of the other thread. Ya know, the one that actually has the poll on it.



Here is a thought, you as a Member are free to rally other members into getting this going agian. Why don't you start a topic, challenging folks with Nano tanks to submit


Here is a thought, why don't you do it, I can't put it as a sticky. Also wouldn't it have more weight comming from the Prez or BOD?



or better yet, volunteer for the TOTM Committee and you can implement all your great ideas with JimD!


I made my suggestions and they were quickly disregarded by Jim.

[MattK]

And my name is Matt not David :P

[MattK]

If nothing else. we are over 30 voters.


Where do you see this? It shows 21 votes where I'm looking.


Sorry for posting three times in a row. ;)

[JimD]

To specify a certain topic or 'theme' for totm would limit the number of potential submissions to an already weak intrest forum. TOTM is non specific. It doesnt matter if its a softy tank, mushroom tank, even planted tanks or whatever, totm is about diversity and experiences. All submissions will be considered,,, peroid!

You consider this to be disregarding your suggestions? I dont, I call it addressing the reality of the situation. If you in fact feel so strongly about your ideas, heres my suggestion to you, join the totm committee, present you suggestions to them and see what the over all consensis is,. I dont make any decisions regarding totm procedres without the unanimus approval of the committee members.

[MattK]

You consider this to be disregarding your suggestions?

Yes



volunteer for the TOTM Committee and you can implement all your great ideas with JimD!

Implement them.

[JimD]

i think tank of the month would have more people try to submitt if there was less description needed. with tank of the month why do you not just pull a winner from the gallery. and just say suprise you are the winner.
I'm sorry, but y'all are missing the whole point of the TOTM!

This isn't about "Look at my tank", you have a gallery for that!

This is about "Educaton", and that is why the description is actually more important than the pctures. Yes, we offer "Prizes", but only to entice folks to enter so we get the educational content. In all reality, we shouldn't have to offer ANYTHING for TOTM entries, our members should be excited about submitting for the educational benefit to folks browsing MAAST.

Exatctly! This is the philosophy Pete and I designed the totm program with from the very begining. It follows along with maasts overall objective and its not going to change. Thanks Steve.

[MattK]

... or better yet, volunteer for the TOTM Committee and you can implement all your great ideas with JimD!

Implement: verb: put into effect

Did you miss this or are you not open for suggestions?

[NaCl_H2O]

Very open to suggestions, thus the opinion poll, and even more open to volunteers! The BOD can accomplish very little on their own, the business, financial, and operations of the club take up most of that time.

[MattK]

This is the philosophy Pete and I designed the totm program with from the very begining. It follows along with maasts overall objective and its not going to change.

You might be open to suggestions but you pointed me to someone who isn't.

[GaryP]

Where do you see this? It shows 21 votes where I'm looking.


I totaled up the total # of votes cast and divided by 10 to get an estimate of total voters. It could be more then this is some people didn't vote for 10. I don't know exactly what the 21 vote thing is about. I think that is people that left one of the voting choices empty. The total number of votes was over 300.

[NaCl_H2O]

I totaled up the total # of votes cast and divided by 10 to get an estimate of total voters. It could be more then this is some people didn't vote for 10. I don't know exactly what the 21 vote thing is about. I think that is people that left one of the voting choices empty. The total number of votes was over 300.
Yup, leave it to someone with a little grasp of Mathematics! ;) We are actually up to about 31 participants now.

If you leave any of the choices defaulted to the "Pick Ten" dummy item, all the ones you leave "Unselected" will cast "n" votes for that one. I did this intentionally so that errors in voting (not selecting all 10) would not stack the votes towards the first one on the list.

[falcondob]

I agree with Steve. TOTM should be an educational thing. Whether it is a seahorse tank, nano, sps, lps, softies, fish only, or a cup with a betta in it, people want to know how you did it, what mistakes you made, new techniques you discovered or read, in general, they want to hear its story. There are a million pictures of tanks and corals out there, but your story is unique.

Same old question. "Are we a club with goals, a website, both, or none?" This needs to be decided quickly by the Charter Members, end the bickering (it only tarnishes our image), and move to the next logical step, whatever that may be!

[MattK]

I agree also, it should be educational, but how is it going to educational when on one submits their tank. My suggestion was to have a Specific tank of the month (Softies, Nano). I know of at least 5 people who don't submit because they think they are going up against a multi-thousand dollar SPS system. And I havn't even asked anybody.

[NaCl_H2O]

I know of at least 5 people who don't submit because they think they are going up against a multi-thousand dollar SPS system. And I havn't even asked anybody.

That is just an excuse to justify lack of participation! I subbmitted my "Multi-Thousand Dollar" system (BTW it isn't all SPS) in early March 2005 - I thought for sure I would be the "Featured Tank", but guess who won TOTM For March 2005 (http://www.maast.org/modules.php?set_albumName=March-05&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view _album.php)?

I thought this was an OUTSTANDING statement by the TOTM committee - TOTM is open to all types & sizes of tanks, and that little Pico tank was a gem!

I did get my tank featured in April 05, after the good ones were all gone ;)

[MattK]

It's not an excuse it's a vaild reason.

[Ed]

I know of at least 5 people who don't submit because they think they are going up against a multi-thousand dollar SPS system. And I havn't even asked anybody.

It has been said before, even in this thread:

Any type of tank (nano, SPS, LPS, softy, FOWLR, Seahorse, etc.) is eligible for TOTM.

ALL TOTM submissions are considered.

We (the TOTM committee) just need you (the members) to submit. ;)

Try it. You might be pleasantly surprised. ^_^

[NaCl_H2O]

Thread with the actual poll link:
Votes = 31, Replies = 18, Views = 374

This thread with all the "Drama":
Votes = 0, Replies = 69, Views = 513

I feel like TNT ... "MAAST, We Know Drama"

Let's get back to voting (http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=18868)

Lockeroooooooo ;)