bugs - TREATED

[hobogato]

ok, well i found the "dreaded" red bugs in my tank last week, and have been reading alot since. seems there is alot of conflicting information, so i have decided to try a slightly different approach.

i just picked up tim marvin's old tank from jason (pilot bell), and after fixing the leak today, i am planning on setting it up as a frag/propagation tank. i already have some duplicates in my tank, and will be fragging some other corals which the bugs seem particularly interested in. i will be moving those over to the new frag setup after dipping to rid them of the bugs.

in my display, i am going to try the rumored red bug predator - a dragonface pipefish. i know it will not erradicate them, but it will hopefully keep their numbers under control.

here's a pic of one coral i will be keeping in both tanks with as many conditions the same as possible. i have almost the same lighting for the frag tank (just on a smaller scale than my display), and will use the same methods (ie, additives, salt, water changes, etc.) on both setups.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/bugs1.jpg

the scientist in me wants to make this as close to a controlled experiment as possible, but if the corals start to turn south bc of the bugs, i will have no option but to treat and end this little test.

i will keep posting as often as possible with comparison pics from both tanks.

[GaryP]

Are you going to dip with Borneman's Lugol method? If so, let us know how that turns out.

[hobogato]

well, i was planning on talking to brian j. about the best way to dip the things i want to move over to the frag
tank to make sure i dont get them in there.

[hobogato]

anyone else that has ideas about dipping and would like to help me come up with the best method, please chime in

i did read alot about Borneman's Lugol method, but some people even had mixed results with that. i was thinking
about trying the interceptor soak for 6 hours that brian has talked about before.

[TexasTodd]

Don't dip.

6.5 hour treatment at about 2x the "standard dose" of Interceptor. Ie standard dose is 1 pill from the 51-100lb pill pack treats 380 gallons. Double this.

For a "treatment" on new corals and frags I put about 1/4 pill in my Eclipse 6 gallon for 6.5 hours. With LOTS of flow.

I've never lost a coral during/from a RB treatment.

My system is maximum 300 gallons without subtracting for rock etc...I used 2 whole pills last treatment.

The corals also seem to "get use to" the treatment the more you do it. The first time I treated many got slimey...but less every time. I also think you get less die off of little critters with a bare bottom system....and thus less of an amonia spike.


2x treatment, 6.5 hours in tank, I run my skimmers so they circulate but don't skim during treatment, do a 30-50% water change, use a bunch of carbon, and skim super "wet" for about 24 hours.

That's what I do anyway.

Todd

[hobogato]

that is what i will do if i notice a problem from the bugs. im not convinced. i have probably had them for quite a while and just didn't know, all the while my acros (even the one in the pic) have been showing good/great PE, growth and coloring up. the one in the pic was pretty much brown three months ago and never put out its polyps. i know there is a raging debate about this, but we dont need to go thru all of that here too.

[hobogato]

i know there is a raging debate about this, but we dont need to go thru all of that here too.

sorry todd - didnt mean to sound snappy, just read lots of point/counterpoint on this whole issue lately. thanks for the input, and that may be the method i use to make sure i dont get them in my prop tank.

[TexasTodd]

No prob Ace, none taken!

For whatever reason, every time I've had an infestation of the bugs...for a while, and then treated, I've always seen a noticable improvement in color.

TT

[Jeff]

i sugested something along the same lines to richard when he said that he has red bugs in his tank. i think that there is a new solution that i had heard about on reef central that will kill red bugs but for the life of my i cant remember it right now, i'll get back to you when i remember it.

[Instar]

You have a lot of the bugs on there. By the time your corals start to fade and go south from the bugs, you may loose some or even many. If you can handle that risk and loss, then hold off but otherwise, treat the entire system soon and be done with it. I lost a lot of large colonies to the bugs even though I treated. It was just too late when they had started to loose color. The QT/dip treatment for new arrivals, no matter what the source is the best method to keep them from reocurring.

[NaCl_H2O]

... i think that there is a new solution that i had heard about on reef central that will kill red bugs but for the life of my i cant remember it right now

Ok, I have been meaning to ask this question. Interceptor (Milbemycin) is also a common treatment in dogs for Demodectic (Red) Mange. However, for more serious cases (we have experience with this) a dip of Amitraz (Mitaban) is used. Mange is caused by a mite in the hair folicles and is often common in puppies that heaven't yet developed a mature imune system.

Mitiban is nasty stuff, smells like lighter fluid, but doesn't seem to effect the puppies if dipped correctly.

Has anyone experimented with treating Acro Mites with Mitiban? It is a liquid, and would be WAY easier to dose and maybe more effective?

[Richard]

I used that on my dog when she was a puppy. Nasty stuff, I would think the acros wouldn't like it too much.

When I went and asked the vet for some interceptor he said he didn't carry it and asked "Is anybody still using that?". He had to call another vet to get me some. Apparently there are safer heartworm meds now since interceptor will kill a dog if it is given as a preventative for heartworms and the dog already has them. So it might just be a matter of time before it becomes hard to get interceptor.

[hobogato]

You have a lot of the bugs on there. By the time your corals start to fade and go south from the bugs, you may loose some or even many. If you can handle that risk and loss, then hold off but otherwise, treat the entire system soon and be done with it. I lost a lot of large colonies to the bugs even though I treated. It was just too late when they had started to loose color. The QT/dip treatment for new arrivals, no matter what the source is the best method to keep them from reocurring.

this is the only one with this kind of infestation. they really seem to like this one in particular. most of my acros have none, and a few of them have a few bugs. this one and one other that they seem to like more are very similar acros.

[Jeff]

hey ace,
i got the nameof the dip i was talking about but it is for flat worms, anyway here it is tropic marine pro coral cure and you can get it at frag farmer. sorry its the wrong thing but all i could remember is that there was a new dip that someone was talking about on reef central.

[hobogato]

thanks jeff

[hobogato]

added one pipefish last night (thanks Sarah and Felipe), and hpefully two more today. Finished redoing the 90 gallon tank this morning, so tomorrow I will water test it and then set it up. I want to get it going ASAP, so if my corals start to decline or the bugs show a big increase in numbers, I can remove my acros to that tank and treat them in there so I dont have to treat my display. Hopefully it wont come to that. pics coming soon.

[hobogato]

just added a second pipefish (thanks Richard), but it was also from the coral sea. Waiting to get at least one from the Indo - Pacific also.

no change in the corals in may tank as of now.

should be setting up the prop tank on Sunday using the Hiatt method, so may transfer some things over next week sometime if it cycles quickly like it is supposed to.

[hobogato]

only one pipefish still around :( (unless the other one is really good at hiding), but i finished the prop tank and have it water testing until sunday.

full tank pic
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/fullprop.jpg
sump with carbon bed and skimmer (havent put the carbon in yet)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/sumpprop.jpg
my helper
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/helper.jpg

some time Sunday, i will move it insid and start filling it and add salt. hopefully add the RN bacteria and some live rock the next day.

[hobogato]

no sign of either pipe fish for a couple of days, so i guess they didnt make it. no change in the corals in the display - no loss of color and all are still growing. only the one in the picture at the beginning is "infested", a few bugs scattered here and there on a few others.

added live and base rock, 5 chromis, and the RN bacteria today. now i just have to paint the stand and wait for it to clear up.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/proprocks.jpg

BTW, this is just a single 250 watt DE Hamilton 10k light.

[Jeff]

do red bugs swarm in the spring and land in everybodies tanks? this is crazy, now i have red bugsand possibly nudis. this goes along with the cyno, dinoflagelets, a busted circuit breaker that provides pwr to my fresh water tank so that when i got home today four of my fish were dead. and like ace only one coral is infested with the red bugs and a few others have a couple on them.

[hobogato]

the weird thing jeff, the frag of that seaworld coral you have that is infested in your tank - not one bug on it today.

[hobogato]

well, i think im gonna have to treat em. they are increasing greatly in numbers and i dont want them to get out of hand, so i will move as many of my hermits as i can over to the prop tank and start the first treatment tomorrow. the sps dont really seem to be effected yet, but i dont want to chance it any longer.

wish me luck.

[hobogato]

well, i treated the tank with interceptor this morning. i was able to get out alot of hermits, and two fire shrimp (about half way thru the 6.5 hours, so i dont know if they will make it). i also took out alot of liverock rubble loaded with pods so i can get those to repopulate pretty quickly in about two weeks - as long as none of the bugs made it.

just finished the big water change, now it is a waiting game.

[TexasTodd]

Great, you'll be happy you did it Ace.

I've never lost a fire shrimp in a treatment.

Red leg/scarlet hermits usually don't die.....small blue ones die quickly!

Don't put anything you pulled out...back in your tank for at least 2 weeks.

Todd

[hobogato]

i may be crazy, but today - some of the corals seem to look better - already? maybe it is just psychological?

[TexasTodd]

NOPE, you're not crazy.

;)

TT

[hobogato]

ok, for comparison, i am putting up the coral from earlier - before and after

before
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/bugs1.jpg

after
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/nobugs.jpg