Hello all, I'm new here

[PeeperKeeper]

I just thought I'd introduce myself. I've got a 75g FOWLR in the waiting room of my office that I'm in the process of upgrading with new skimmer, T5 lights, larger return pump to add a SCWD to, maybe a fuge, etc. I want to start keeping more reef type stuff.

About 10 years ago, we had a reef tank at home and my hubby and I were both into the hobby. Kids came along and we lost interest for a while, but I still kept the one at my office, although I just did as much as I had to to keep it looking halfway decent. Last year, my inattentiveness caught up with me and the tank went through a semi-crash.

Now I've got it back in good shape, but in the process I found all these great SWF forums (this one, ReefCentral, Saltwaterfish.com, Talking Reef, etc.) and I'm back to being interested in the reef hobby. Unfortunately, my husband only remembers how expensive it was and how much trouble. Oh well.

Anyway, that's my story in a nutshell. I'd love to find others into the hobby and go to some meetings somewhere nearby. So is there an active reef club here in Austin? What's the scoop? I read in one of the other threads that MAAST has meetings everywhere from Austin to Corpus, but is there a chapter of it that's just local to Austin and meets more often? I wish I could make it to the frag swap this Saturday, but my daughter's having a 6th birthday sleepover party that I have to get ready for that day.

[weizer896]

Welcome to MAAST :D

[Ram_Puppy]

welcome PeeperKeeper!

MAAST officially doesn't have chapters, though we do have a group of guys in the valley that meet on their own I think as they are so geographically distant from the rest of us.

MAAST does not have San Antonio and Austin Chapters though these seem to be the major hubs, with great experienced people and noobs alike in both areas. We typically TRY to alternate our meetings between San Antonio and Austin every other month, but that can be an issue if no one in that particular city volunteers. If memory serves we have had times when most of the meetings were being held in San Antonio.

I don't think it's been posted yet, but I think the official March meeting will probably be in Austin, I could be wrong though.

Please tell us more about your tank!? :)

[MattK]

Welcome to MAAST!

[PeeperKeeper]

[quote=Please tell us more about your tank!? :)[/quote]

Well, there's not that much to tell about the tank as it is right now, but I can tell you about some of the problems I've been through with it in the recent past. Most of last year I was dealing with problem after problem and had almost decided to take it down. It started with the few zoas I had dying off, then I started getting hair algae, then the fish started dying, then I couldn't even get enough clean up crew to live long enough to make a dent in the HA and gunk.

I would figure out something I'd been doing wrong, fix it, then buy something to put in the tank (I spent over $100 on snails and hermit crabs several different times) it would die (or at least a high percentage did) and I would figure out something else, and go through the whole thing again, battling HA the whole time. Do you know how frustrating it is to come home from the LFS having spent over $100 and 4 hours drip acclimating and not have anything but a bunch of ugly snails and hermies to look at in the tank?

It finally started to turn around when as a last ditch, I took out each and every piece of LR and scrubbed all the HA I could get off it and did a 100% water change before putting it all back. The HA still continued to grow for a while after that, but as we all know, nothing good happens fast in a tank, so I believe that's when it turned around.

Some of the the things I remember I was doing wrong were:

1. When it needed top off and I was out of RO, I would sometimes shut off the pump for over a day at a time until I could get some because I refused to use tap water.

2. I didn't have any sort of heater on the tank, so it would swing from probably 76 to 80, maybe more from morning to night.

3. Water changes were sporadic.

4. Bulbs (2 - 96Watt PC's) needed changing.

5. Had a little phosphate. Not horrible, but it didn't help things.

6. Other signs of low water quality (maybe just low calcium) included die off of coralline algae.

7. I really don't know why so many fish and inverts died. The hermies were never bothered. Water tests were always perfect, except when I had that little bit of phosphate. Maybe stress from the temp swings (doubtful but that's what I thought when I realized they were happening) or low oxygen in the tank (didn't have a test for that) or some mysterious chemical I couldn't test for but which came out with the 100% WC.



Of course there had to be one more little jab a few weeks after my problems seemed to be on the mend. I had put a longnose hawk in and it had been living happily for over 3 weeks. Then one day one of the staff noticed he was acting funny and told me. I took one look at the tank, saw that there were about 5 snails upside down but still in their shells, and knew before I even felt the water that the heater had failed stuck on. Sure enough, the temp was 92F. I took about 2 hours to bring it down to 80 (topping off with cilled water from the office water cooler) but I didn't see the hawk for a week. I just knew he was gone because before he had always been out where we could see him. By this time I was so frustrated that I truly was going to break down the tank. Then by some miracle, the hawk showed up again. I took it as a sign that I should keep the tank and went out and bought a Shrimpgoby. It turned out to be the hawk's final couple of days, but since I now had the goby and it was doing well I decided to keep the tank. It's been doing better and better ever since then. Even the coralline is back to covering most of the rocks. :D

Sorry for the long post. You'l find I can sometimes (not always ;)) be the queen of long posts. Ram, aren't you glad you asked me to talk about my tank? :blink

[GaryP]

Welcome to MAAST!!!!

[NaCl_H2O]

Hmm, fish tank, waiting area, staff noticing problems, understands research and problem solving ...

WELCOME to MAAST Doc! :D

[PeeperKeeper]

Yup, good guess saltwater. I'm an EYE doc. I "keep peeples peepers peepin'!" that's why they call me PeeperKeeper, lol. :)

[GaryP]

Hello again PeeperKeeper,

Just a few things I thought I would comment on from your last post for the general purposes of education. I realize its a little late now but hopefully you will come away with a few things.

1. "I had that little bit of phosphate" - There are actually two forms of phosphate and you kit only tests for one. Any positive indication from a test kit usually indicates the other, untested for form, is pretty high. The best test for phosphates is actually the HA problem you were having. Any nuisance algae problem is usually an indication of excess nutrients, usually phosphate. HA is usually a symptom, not the actual pathology. Water quality is the source that you need to attack, as well as using the herbivores to clean up the tank. Excess hair algae can also drive down the oxygen level at night and this may have be the reason you had problems keeping stuff alive.

2. "I would sometimes shut off the pump for over a day at a time until I could get some because I refused to use tap water" Remember that flow through the pumps and skimmer, as well as acrtoss the tank, is the primaly way that gas exchange takes place in the tank. If you were already having oxygen problems, as I mentioned earlier that probably only added to the issue. Using dechorinated tap water probably would have been a better option of the two alternatives. Actually, the bottled water you mentioned is usually RO/DI that has some minerals added back for taste. I would have considered sacrificing a jug of water in that situation. Also, in a pinch, I have used distilled water from the grocery store if RO/DI is not available.

3. The excess temperature spike you had probably caused enough stress to result in the hawkfish developing some sort of disease, such as Ich. High Temp. often sets off a ndisease outbreak, especially Ich. The stress results in lower immune response, just like in humans.

4. "low water quality (maybe just low calcium) included die off of coralline algae" Besides calcium, were you testing for alkalinity? That is another factor to consider. That can also cause daily swings in pH that could lead to some of the other problems you had. In addition, the hair algae can over grow coralline and choke it out as well as out-competing it for nutrients. Coralline needs both calcium and alkalinity to grow. A two part additive is an easy way to maintain good levels. Since you said your water changes were sporadic, I would think that you weren't getting a lot of supplementation of these from that route.

5. "swing from probably 76 to 80" - that isn't a huge swing and certainly within acceptable levels. Obviously the temp spike you experienced was a different matter. The funny thing about temp. spikes is that they seem to occur at the times that we least expect them, that is in the spring and fall on mild days. That is because the aquarium acts like an evaporative cooler. Heat loss, like sweating, occurs primarily through evaporation. Did you have a fan on the tank? On mild days, the AC runs less and the humidity inside is often quite high, that results in less evaporation, and thus less cooling. On days like we have had for the last couple of days is when I am on the lookout for a temp. problem. The windows are open, the humidity is high, and I always notice that I need to add less make-up water on these days. What I have done, to get around the cost of adding a cooler, is to double the number of cooling fans that I normally need. One set runs with the lights. The other is just backup that I turn on when needed. In this way I can double my cooling capacity on peak days. The fans are necessary to help break up the layer of saturanted, humid air that forms over the surface of the water and thus increase evaporation.

OK, enough for now. I hope you didn't feel like I was picking on you, but rather just providing some details from my own experience in making my own mistakes over the years. Unfortunately, we always seems to learn more from our failures then from our successes. Hopefully we cna help guide you through these pitfalls as you get your tank up and running again.

[brewercm]

WELCOME.

I was reading through your post and this one just screamed out at me.

1. When it needed top off and I was out of RO, I would sometimes shut off the pump for over a day at a time until I could get some because I refused to use tap water.

How many times has this been done that the pumps were turned off? By turning off the pumps for that amount of time you depleted the oxygen in your system and your whole tank is going to go downhill from there. Animals start to die, ammonia most likely starts to go up because of the dead animals along with nitrates going up. Jus a bad overall problem from the pumps being off. One of the main killer of tanks is extended power outages.

The temp swing from 76 to 80 isn't that bad (not great but won't kill everything). I used to have that all the time in my last tank, never caused a major problem.

Sporadic water changes, not as bad as you'd think but still not a good thing, possible reason for low calcium.

Old bulbs possible reason for hair algae and loss of coraline along with low calcium thing.


Not sure if you were looking for any help on these issues but the one just jumped out at me and I didn't see anything about any of them being fixed. Hope to see you at one of our meetings (that is when I make it). :(

[brewercm]

WOW, Gary must have been typing that book out when I posted this. :D

[PeeperKeeper]

I appreciate all the comments on my mistakes. Love them, in fact! That's why I posted them, and it helps that some of the comments you made I had already heard along the way, or knew about myself. Hearing it from other sources is always good.

Yes, I know turning off the pumps was probably the root cause of my downfall. You know how I said I would figure out a problem, fix it and think everything would be okay from then on? The pump thing was the first thing I knew to stop doing (because I really knew better in the first place) when things started going downhill.

It was usually that I would come in on a Monday morning to see millions of bubbles in the tank coming from the return. Of course I'd turn it off to keep from burning up the pump, but then work would call and I'd be tied up all day. If I forgot or didn't have time to take care of it at lunch or the end of the day, there we'd be. I offer this not to make excuses, but just as an example of how daily life can sometimes get in the way of what we know we should or shouldn't be doing with our tanks.


There are actually two forms of phosphate and you kit only tests for one. Any positive indication from a test kit usually indicates the other, untested for form, is pretty high.

That I didn't know, Gary. That actually makes more sense because I wondered why it wasn't testing high with all that luxuriant HA growth.



Actually, the bottled water you mentioned is usually RO/DI that has some minerals added back for taste. I would have considered sacrificing a jug of water in that situation.

Well, it isn't one of those bottled water coolers. It's the kind that filters by RO and chills at point of service, which is nice for getting small amounts, but I would have been standing there for 15 minutes to get a gallon. I do use it for top off most of the time when it's not so low. I can put 3 or 4 large cups in each day and it works out pretty well.

The oxygen factor is another piece of the puzzle that I learned about/was reminded of during the whole process. Mind you this was all going on over a period of about 8-10 months. I stopped turning off the pumps as the first step, but I think it had already kicked off a domino effect where all the other mistakes/inattentiveness I was guilty of came into play. Without that, I probably could have gotten away with sporadic WC's, not having a heater, using old bulbs, etc. But once things started to go badly, I had to mend my ways to get it back to being healthy again.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I don't feel at all picked on. On the contrary, I love this forum! All of the mistakes I mentioned have been addressed and then some. I've got an RO filter that just needs another part which is on order, then I'll have my own water source just for the tank. I've been better about WC's and testing the water regularly (actually I take it to RiverCity and let them do it) and I'm upgrading my protien skimmer to a Turboflotor 1000 Multi. I'm also changing my return pump from a Mag 7 to a Mag 9.5 and adding a SCWD to increase circulation and current action, and I put one of those spinner thingies on the 802 powerhead I have in the tank. I'm also going to upgrade my lights from having just two 96W PC's to either adding 4- 54W T5 HO's to the PC's or just replacing them altogether with 6 -54W T5's.

Those changes will be done over a period of 4 months or so unless I get impatient and just decide to splurge all at once (again the hubby is a factor). After that, I may replace my W/D filter box with a regular sump and add a refugium. In fact, when the Turboflotor comes in, I may be forced to do that sooner because I'm not sure it's going to fit in my current sump.

[brewercm]

Is there any way you can run a line from that water source to your sump, add on a float valve and have it auto top off for you?

[PeeperKeeper]

Not really, but that's a good idea. The water cooler/dispenser is right next to the tank, but staff and patients use it for drinking water. I don't think I can tear into it because it's on lease and is maintained (replacing filters, etc.) by the company who provides it. I just stand there and pour cups of water in the tank from it.

I'd like to have an auto-top off with kalkwasser in a jug with a float valve, but I don't think I have room under the tank. Maybe when I redo the sump.

[Ram_Puppy]

PepperKeeper, I don't regret asking a thing, actually glad someone here is capable of writing a novella for a post other than me and gary. :)

I am dissapointed your in Austin as I am looking for a new peeperkeeper for me and my wife. The last one was a friend and now is no longer a friend, so I don't want to go back. I had lasik a few years ago and my wife is in contacts...

Anyhow..

I am glad you seem to be on the right path correcting your tank. I too once stewed a tank with 92 degree temps but it took me a couple days to notice as I had just started working nights. that sucked.

[GaryP]

It sounds like you are definitely on the right path with this tank. Just imagine, you figured out all this without us. :) Just a few other things I noticed from your latest posts:

1. Can you have a small cabinet built to match your stand in which you can put extra equipment and even a top off tank? That;s what I am going to do on my new tank and I have seen a few others do something along the same lines.

2. Good move on the turbofloater. That should solve a lot of your nutrient problems.

3. You might want to reconsider the SCWD. Ask some folks here that have used them. There are some negatives with them. I've never run one but have seen the comments of people that have used them. I think most of them have moved on to Oceans Motions. If you are only going to be running FOWLR tank then it may not be necessary. The same thing applies to a lot of extra lights. Are you planning on moving up to a reef tank?

4. I assume there is no one taking care of your tank on the weekends. What are you doing about top off and feeding? I have the same issue with the tank I have in my office. Fortunately, I only live a few blocks from the office and I am usually in there on weekends to do water changes anyway.

[Ram_Puppy]

did anyone mention a ph osban reactor? this would also help with phosphates...

sorry, my brain leaked out a few months ago and i don't remember so well anymore. :)