noob arrival... whats up guys...

[tucker]

hello all!

just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. my name is tucker and im fairly new to the whole marine aquarium deal. had gold fish when i was younger and decided i would try my hand at saltwater...anyhow, i purchased a tank recently from another member and he told me to read info from this site so now, im here... i had a little bit of insight from the person who sold me the tank but i have a few more questions...

here we go...

foremost, the tank specs- 38gal, no protein skimmer, no sump and all that other stuff, just a hood based filter and lights. the filter does have a directional spout that creates a "current" of water within the tank. the filter also goes up into the hood, through a tube where water goes out into a little tank(where those things that good bacteria can grow?), and back out the hood based spout.

questions..

1. i recently filled up my tank using tap water and water conditioner. i added the sea salt mix and im a little bit above the recommended level of salinity(specific grav). will this mixture drop over time or will i have to add supplementation to drop the level? there are no fish, corals or anything in the tank, just sand. i plan to let the mixture "cure" (not sure if that is right wording) until im ready for tank inhabitants...

2. i have read up on this forum as well as reef.org and it seems that i will have to start the "cycle" before im able to add any livestock. i read a guy put dead shrimp to jump start his cycle in another thread. if i understand correctly, the process goes something like...

a. make sure chemicals in the water are acceptable...
1a salinity
2a nitrates
3a ammonia
4a nitrides
5a calcium
6a ??
7a ??

b. let the water sit in the tank for like, a week

c. do something to start cycle

d. add corals first?

e. add small fish?

f. ???

what all is important here before i can start adding things? in the end, i want a few soft corals, a "cleanup crew" and some clown fish. that would be my next step but i just want to make sure...

3 it is my understanding that corals need some sort of light. where i have the aquarium set up just so happens to be in an area of the house that natural light will shine somewhat on during dawn and dusk. very aery and open. is this a bad thing? i remember during my gold fish days that direct sunlight would encourage algae growth but for some reason i think i read that corals need sunlight for growth?

4 the only testing equipment that i have are a specific gravity tester(a clear containter with a needle that bounces) and an ammonia tester than sticks onto the tank. what else do i need to purchase in order to test my water?


anyhow, if you guys can help by answering these questions, i would greatly appreciate it! im so excited to start this and am eager to get started! thanks

[Jeff]

welcome. if ypour salinity is high i suggest that you remove some of your salt water and replacewith fresh water untill you reach your desired salinity. did you use live sand or liverock? if not go buy some live rock to seed your tank, it will help it cycle. if you just want soft corals dont add suppliments just do small weekly water changes and all that you will have to testfor are ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. remember to keep it simple, you dont need the latest and greatest gadgets to make your tank work just patience and listen to others but make your own decisionsand have FUN.

[GaryP]

Wow, where do I start? First off welcome to MAAST.

1. Jef is right, do a partial water change with fresh water to get your salinity where it needs to be (1.024-1.026). Those floating needle hydrometers aren't real accurate so take it to the fish store and ask them to calibrate it against a refractometer. Make sure to wash it out with tap water after every use and soak it in vinegar every few months.

2. Adding live sand and live rock will help establish the bacteria you need to cycle your tank. There are some bacteria innoculums that also are helpful. You are going to need at least a 4 inch sand bed (fine sand) to be able to set up a good nitrogen cycling system. Especially since you don't have a skimmer or much in the way of filtration equipment. I wouldn't add a shrimp. Its not necessary.

3. Lights - Yes most corals need light. It really depends on what corals you are talking about. Some need no light at all, some need a lot more then what you are probably going to have with your current set up. My best adice here is to thoroughly research every critter you put in your tank before making a purchase. Don't accept the advice of the guy at the fish store blindly. You never know what his level of experience and knowledge is. Do your own research or check with the folks here.

4. Cycling - It may take a month before you are ready to put any critters in your tank. That's going to depend on how you set up the tank. Whether you use cured or uncured live rock, and what the souce of sand is that you use to get your sand bed started. Check with some folks here and see if you can get a cup full of their live sand to start your sand bed. The bacteria and other critters in their sand will act like an inoculation to help get the bed started.

5. Do yourself a favor and find a good source of reverse osmosis water or used distilled water. You will eventually have issues with tap water.

6. Water testing. Start investing in a good set of test kits. The Seatest kits is a good beginner kit. It has pH, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. In addition to that you will eventually want to add Salifert brand calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium kits.

7. For a tank that size you shouldn't need much in the way of supplements. You can do most of your supplementation with water changes. You will need to do at least a 10-20% water change every week. Again, find a good source of water and stock up on salt. The one thing you may need to supplement is buffer (alkalinity).

8. Don't be in a hurry to add fish. Give it time to cycle. When its time to start adding fish, do so slowly. One at a time. Again, research what you are adding. Its easy to overstock a tank that size with as little filtration as you have. Make your choices wisely because once a fish is in the tank its hard to get out. Everyone seems to want to add damsels first because they are cheap. Damsels can be very aggressive towards other fish. A lot of fish will outgrow a tank that size. So regardless of how big they are in the fish store, check to see what the minimum recommended tank size is for the adults.

9. Look into getting a skimmer. In the long run, its going to be one of the best things you will add. There aren't a lot of good choices for small skimmers for a tank that size. I'm sure someone will jump in and give you some suggestions on them.

10. I'm guessing you have standard fluorescent or similar bulbs on the tank. Your choices on corals are going to be limited because of the lights and lack of filtration. Corals should be the last thing to go into the tank and it may be 6 months before you can start putting them in.

11. Algae bloom. Yes, you are probably going to have one. That's typical in a small tank. The outside light is not going to be the cause of it. The nutrients, especially phosphate is the cause. A clean up crew will help control it, but remember you will need to address the water quality issues, to control it. At the same time, you don't want to put in a clean up crew if you have high nitrates. Most inverts are sensitive to nitrates, especially snails.

12. Go get a good book designed for beginners. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Fenner or The New Marine Aquarium by Paletta are good ones. I'm sure someone will be able to recommend others.

13. I assume your filter has the small activated carbon cartridges. Those need to be changed out often, especially int the beginning.

OK, that is enough for now. Just come back and ask questions as they come to you. The best thing you can do now is make a few simple additions as I mentioned, and read, read, and read some more. There is a ton of info out there on the web and in books. Some of it is bad info, most is good. When all else fails come ask some questions here. We're glad to help out.

[witecap4u]

Welcome tucker....

Gary, this is my 38 that was for sale. It has 2x55w PC's, so lighting is good for softies and some LPS up high in the tank(thats what worked for me). The filtration is very similar to an eclipse, but it doesnt use filter cartridges, just a pad laid over the media with a spray bar. For media, it uses ceramic tubes, but you could probably put carbon in it if its the larger granules(sp?). I dont know if a skimmer is going to be possible on this due to the filter. I never used one and had pretty good results.

I gave tucker the short version of most of what you said and recomended he come here, pm, or call me with any questions. I didnt really push a DSB since the tank has a fairly small footprint.

cs

[cbianco]

Tucker

Here are a couple of websites to assist you in your "research."

www.wetwebmedia.com - Lots of reading on all aspects of aquariums.

www.garf.org - Advanced reading on tank inhabitants.

www.drfostersmith.com - You can look up a particular animal and learn the basics here.

As others have stated, stop using tap water. Tap water has elevated of phosphates which eventually reek havoc on your system (see algae bloom). If you plan on keeping corals it is advised that you upgrade your lighting to something more suitable than that of a standard tank hood. Don't forget to read as much as you can! Lots of learning to do :) !

Good Luck.

Christopher

[satx-94integraLS]

my advice:

listen to garyP! he knows whats up!

[tucker]

wow guys, definitely lots of good info in those replies!

i did manage to get ahold of some live sand at the fish store yesterday. i went to fish addicts at the advice of witcap4u. those guys were very helpful in helping me get started.

as careful as i was, the sand went everywhere and im staring at a cloudy tank. i figured i would add all the sand now to avoid clouding the tank later on. its been roughly 16 hrs and its still kinda cloudy. i can see roughly 2 inches into the aquarium but thats about it lol.


4. Cycling - It may take a month before you are ready to put any critters in your tank. That's going to depend on how you set up the tank. Whether you use cured or uncured live rock, and what the souce of sand is that you use to get your sand bed started. Check with some folks here and see if you can get a cup full of their live sand to start your sand bed. The bacteria and other critters in their sand will act like an inoculation to help get the bed started

edit - i figured this one out already V
quick question about the sand. i purchased one bag of the live sand, fiji something rather. anyhow, the amount of sand that i purchased was not enough to completely fill the bottom of the aquarium. i plan on getting another bag or 2 to square that off. im assuming that i dont need another bag of live sand right?-as i could just use the cheaper non live sand? i like the idea of the live sand bacteria helping out with cleaning but im wondering if the bacteria from the live sand would grow into the non live sand? i dont know if that makes sense on paper. kinda like live rock grows onto dead rock?

concerning the live rock...do you think it is safe to add at this time? i have this underlying idea in my head that since i have tap water in there, the water is cloudy, and i have no idea about the levels in the water(ph, nitrate, nitrite) that i would kill the live sand and live rock. i plan on going to pollys today to pick up some sand and test kit and can get some live rock too.


5. Do yourself a favor and find a good source of reverse osmosis water or used distilled water. You will eventually have issues with tap water.

when i do the water changes i will remember to do the reverse osmosis water. i wanted to get some yesterday but my lack of preparation left me without a vehicle to efficiently transport 40 gal of water back and forth. from what i read last night, i think i should be good to go as long as i cycle out the water with r/o later on(perfect timing since i have to drop the salinity anyway)


i can already tell this is going a attention-intense project for me. not a bad thing, i kinda like this whole elevated feeling of responsibility lol...micro managing at its finest!! :P

[Jeff]

go ahead and get some regular sand at yhis point, rinse it out really good, and also some live rock.the live rock will help cycle the tank and gives you something to look at besides a bare tank.

[Ram_Puppy]

welcome Tucker!

[Thunderkat]

I wouldn't call you a noob, you are getting off to a good start by asking for help. Welcome to MAAST ^_^

[Ram_Puppy]

very true, seeking knowledge in this hobby is a sign of wisdom.

[satx-94integraLS]

no joke. the last thing you want to do is NOT ask questions. by all means, ask away, dont make a mistake!

when in doubt, ASK!

[jap1]

Welcome to MAAST, tucker. You did the right thing by coming here and doing lots of research first. Lack of knowledge is probably the biggest reason so many fail at saltwater. One good piece of advice that I heard here is that "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank." Take that to heart and you'll do great.

[GaryP]

wow guys, definitely lots of good info in those replies!
i did manage to get ahold of some live sand at the fish store yesterday. i went to fish addicts at the advice of witcap4u. those guys were very helpful in helping me get started.
Yea, Felipe and Sarah are good folks.

as careful as i was, the sand went everywhere and im staring at a cloudy tank. i figured i would add all the sand now to avoid clouding the tank later on. its been roughly 16 hrs and its still kinda cloudy. i can see roughly 2 inches into the aquarium but thats about it lol.
That's fine, just part of the process. It will clear up. With the non-live sand, rinse it in a bucket with a hose first to get the "dust" out before adding it.


edit - i figured this one out already V
Good for you. You are already ahead of 95% of the newbies.


quick question about the sand. i purchased one bag of the live sand, fiji something rather. anyhow, the amount of sand that i purchased was not enough to completely fill the bottom of the aquarium. i plan on getting another bag or 2 to square that off. im assuming that i dont need another bag of live sand right?-as i could just use the cheaper non live sand? i like the idea of the live sand bacteria helping out with cleaning but im wondering if the bacteria from the live sand would grow into the non live sand? i dont know if that makes sense on paper. kinda like live rock grows onto dead rock?

"Dead" sand is fine. Like I said earlier, rinse it before adding it to minimize how cloudy it will make your tank. There is some good stuff in that live sand and it will spread to the new sand. You might also want to get a cup full of sand from some other folks to help add bio-diversity to the sand.


concerning the live rock...do you think it is safe to add at this time? i have this underlying idea in my head that since i have tap water in there, the water is cloudy, and i have no idea about the levels in the water(ph, nitrate, nitrite) that i would kill the live sand and live rock. i plan on going to pollys today to pick up some sand and test kit and can get some live rock too.
You can put it in as soon as you finish adding the sand so the live rock doesn't get buried or covered in sand.


i can already tell this is going a attention-intense project for me. not a bad thing, i kinda like this whole elevated feeling of responsibility lol...micro managing at its finest!! :P
Welcome to my world. Its definitely a little past keeping a goldfish in a bowl. It does require some work and commitment, especially in the beginning. You are definitely getting off to a good start. Keep it up. I like to tell folks that we are managing the environment of our aquariums. Some folks kid themselves into thinking that an aquarium is like an ocean in mininature. Well, in some ways that's true, but what mother nature does with huge volumes and surface area we have to do with chemical additives, work, and equipment. At best, we are just getting close to approximating what is happening on an oceanic level. Keep up the good work.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Its how we do our best learning. The best we can hope for is that our critters will survive the worst of our mistakes. If you don't make mistakes you will be the first in the hobby to do so.

[GaryP]

Gary, this is my 38 that was for sale. It has 2x55w PC's, so lighting is good for softies and some LPS up high in the tank(thats what worked for me). The filtration is very similar to an eclipse, but it doesnt use filter cartridges, just a pad laid over the media with a spray bar. For media, it uses ceramic tubes, but you could probably put carbon in it if its the larger granules(sp?). I dont know if a skimmer is going to be possible on this due to the filter. I never used one and had pretty good results.
Sounds like a Jebo? He can replace the white filter pad with some carbon in a filter bag. It will serve the same purpose and give chemical filtration in addition to serving as a biological media. It can also provide a place to put phosphate scrubber when and if he needs it. I would recommend only changing no more then 3/4 of the carbon at one time though. The old carbon will act as a bacterial starter culture for the new stuff.


I gave tucker the short version of most of what you said and recomended he come here, pm, or call me with any questions. I didnt really push a DSB since the tank has a fairly small footprint. I can't really see running such a tank with a thin sand bed or bare bottom. With no skimmer the nitrates are going to be really high without a deep sand bed. There is just no where for the nitrates to go. I realize the bed takes up a lot of room, but I don't see an alternative other then huge water changes that could do as much damage as they would do good. Maybe one of the nano guys can see something here that I am missing. I could be wrong. Its unlikely, but possible. Just kidding!!!

[tucker]

hey guys, a little update....

well, i did end up going to the fish store today and got some new stuff.

first off, i picked up another bag of live sand. the "dead" sand was $2 dollars cheaper so i figured id be a big spender and go for the live sand again ;) i carefully put it in and there was a little bit of cloudiness, but not anywhere near as much as the first bag.

i also picked up about 10 lbs of live rock which had a little bit of growth on it. theres 2 little pieces, about the size of a brownie and one big piece about the size of a boxing glove. theres these palm tree looking growths on 'em, they look pretty cool. theyre purple/maroon in color and have real long "arms."

i also bought a little hermit crab. hes so tiny, about the size of a peanut m&m. its hard to find him(because of his size) but i noticed hes been chillin on one of the pieces of live rock for about an hour.

although the tank is clearer than before(i can see through it now) everything is white, like a white frosting on all the live rock the crab, and the walls. up at the top of the water level, theres bubbles that are the same color.. im assuming its dust/dirt from teh live sand but it almost looks as if it snowed in my tank. i mean, everything has a coat of white(which so happens to be the color of the sand). im assuming this is normal?

ill see if i cant take pics

[Ram_Puppy]

perfectly normal. the liverock and live sand will help, as the bacteria they are seeding will grow on everything in the tank, including the suspended matter. as a bio-film forms over it, it sinks. It took my tank 3 days, but I also ran a micron filter.