did an emergency water change on tank...........

[CEDRIC]

i added a few new fish in my tank a week ago and notice a couple of my long time fish were'nt looking to well...i checked the levels of the nitrate,nitrite,ammonia,ph and my levels were way out of wack....i did a quick water change about 15 percent and added some prime(red bottle, the one that detoxifies nitrite and nitrate)..How long do i need to wait to do another water change...3 days, a week?????????....please help....the nitrite and nitrate were waaaaaayyyyyyy to high...

thanks

[GaryP]

What were your levels? How old a tank is it? Remember that doing a 15% water change will only reduce those things that are "out of wack" by 15%. Chances are, unless you address the cause of the problem, the levels will be back to where they were before you do another water change. Water changes will help, but aren't a solution in themselves.

I'm not familiar with prime, so I can't help you there. If your levels are that high it means one of a couple of things, 1. You had a large amount of nutrients in your tank. Did something die or did you add some uncured live rock? 2. You bacterial waste processing isn't keeping up with the amount of waste being produced. Has something changed? What size tank and how many fish do you have in it? 3. You have bad test kits and your results are faulty and there is no problem. You can get an LFS or another member to verify your results.

[CEDRIC]

im guessing a large amount of nutrients and waste....nothing died...

its a 90 gal fish only tank...seven fish..(leopard eel,v. lion,undulated trigger,clown trigger ,clown grouper,yellow tang,red blenny.....just added the blenny, tang and grouper ...the tank has been up and running seven months...(moved it) was up and running 2 years prior to that....same live rock thats been in it since then......im using a fast test kit that ive had for a while(black box).....ive never had any prob with the filtration system b4,so i dont think that is it....it seems to be working fine....with the new addition of fish ive been feeding more....not to mention i was told to feed my eel more...and i started feeding him silver sides....and the lion is eating that as well...the tang and the eel has been producing a lot of waste lately....any suggestions

[hammondegge]

grouper poop?
are you running a skimmer

[CEDRIC]

how long should i wait to do another water change????

[JimD]

ee gads! Thats quite a poop factory ya have there! You really need a BIG skimmer and more water changes along with siphoning the substrate and using a powerhead to suspend the deritus from the rocks. In my opinion, unless you take a much more aggressive approach to nutrient export/removal, youll never get your parameters at acceptable levels.

[CEDRIC]

im running an eheim wet dry cannister(i know its not the best,only one that will fit in the cabinet) and a small to medium skimmer...now that i think about it, i was shifting the sand around lately because of the triggers moving it around....

[GaryP]

You are overstocked for the system you have. There are only two solutions for that. 1. Add more equipment, 2. reduce your bioload.

[CEDRIC]

anybody got a used lg skimmer 4sale :D :D :D

[GaryP]

Do you have room to put a hole in the ceiling for a skimmer big enough to handle that much bioload?

[CEDRIC]

a hole???....for another skimmer???? ...yes its 4 ft. in length ill make room...

[Ram_Puppy]

Cedric, I think he is pointing out for that bio-load your gonna need a MASSIVE skimmer, and to cut a hole in the cieling of your house, not your stand.

[CEDRIC]

funny.....im hurting here ppl...(kick a man while he's down) :D :D

will a lg skimmer work or do i need to cut down on the bioload

[CEDRIC]

what about two skimmers???

[CEDRIC]

or maybe a uv sterlizer

[GaryP]

Yes to both. I know that Don n SA kas a 240 agressive tank with as much bioload as you do. He has a huge amount of equipment and 2 refugiums and he still has occasional problems with nitrates.

If you are getting positive results for nitrite and ammonia you have a lot bigger problem then nitrates. Nitrates are not toxic to fish. Nitrites and Ammonia are!

[hammondegge]

Anthony Calfo recommends 2 skimmer systems plumbed so that they are both always on but on alternate cleaning schedules (skimmer cleaning). how often are you feeding?

[Ross]

UV wont do anything for the bioload. Theres not really a HOB skimmer that is big enough. Your best bet would be a remora pro version with the mag 3 pump. That is the bets HOB skimmer out there...

[Isis]

or maybe a uv sterlizerUh no.

Seriouly, you need to remove a few of those fish. First off, your volitan is going to get much larger than that tank. You will need to get rid of that. You are looking for trouble keeping the clown and undualted triggers together, let alone they will also outgrow that tank. The clown grouper will get to 14 inches and the eel at 5.9 feet. I recommend highly that you either upgrade to a 300-600 gallon tank or get rid of everything but the yellow tang and blenny.

Not too sound harse, but you should have done considerable research on all these species before purchasing, especially with the knowledge that your equipment can't support such a bioload. With those additions, you are about to through your tank out of whack and cause the demise of all your charges.

[GaryP]

I'm guessing you probably have a pretty bad hair algae outbreak too.

[Gator]

I RECOMEND GETIING THE BIGGER TANK THAT ISIS RECOMENDED i justr happen to have a 650 that you can purchase and keep all of your fish no reason to get rid of anything

[don-n-sa]

hey Cedric,

I think I remember meeting you at Misti's house last year right? Where have you been?

Anyway, I am sorry to say but for the most part ISIS is right...you are waaay overstocked...and I thought I was bad.... :P

If you absolutley have to keep all of those fish then you will need a bigger tank ASAP....water changes, using prime, etc...will buy you a little more time but it will not fix the problem. Like Gary said NITRATES are not a problem in a fish only...but NITRITES and/or AMONIA, thats scary...you could be losing pretty much everything in the next few days/weeks if something is not done about it. That means your filtration is not keeping up with your bioload. IF you want to see what it takes to run an overstocked tank...feel free to PM me and I can show you my system.

[CEDRIC]

im getting rid of some of the fish....and maybe the eel....but im keeping the triggers...at least till they get bigger.....and how did you guess im fighting hair alge.....thx for all the advice......i wish i could afford the 650 gal.

what about upgrading to 250

[Isis]

im getting rid of some of the fish....and maybe the eel....but im keeping the triggers...at least till they get bigger.....and how did you guess im fighting hair alge.....thx for all the advice......i wish i could afford the 650 gal.

what about upgrading to 250Upgrading to a 250 wold be a tempory fix, but you will need to still get quite a bit more equipment, in addition to the fact that your fish will still out grow that tank. Triggers need a lot of swimming room and the clown trigger is extremely aggressive. Regardless, you are setting your self up for problems until you add on more equipment.

[Ram_Puppy]

It's time to take stock in what you CAN keep and decide what is feasable for you to do bud. Some thoughts that should guide you in this hobby.

1. Never buy a fish that will ourgrow your current setup. Most people that buy small tanks can't afford to upgrade to a larger tank later. (I know I can't!)

2. Research every specimen you want to add to your tank. when in doubt, ask here, ask anywhere.

3) perhaps you can find some smaller alternative fish after you have stabalized the system.

for instance:

Volitans Lion - trade out for a fuzzy dward lion
Leapord Eel - should be fine at only 18 inches adult length

as said, you have quite a few fish that are to large for the system.

Also remember that shape of the tank is important as well, don't get long and skinny if you upgrade, your fish need rea estate for their territories, as well as volume, I would be going for a brick shape so they have room to turn around as well.

[GaryP]

and how did you guess im fighting hair alge
It comes from the most precious commodity in this hobby, experience. If your nitrogen nutrients are high, chances are your phosphates are probably high too. High phosphates = hair algae. The fact that you have minimal filtration is another good indication. With as many predators as you have you are going to have high phosphates. The only way to get round that is to use a lot of phosphate absorber or do what Don does and have a lot of refugium capacity.

[gjuarez]

Experience gives you psychic powers. I am getting a little better at that. I agree with what everyone is saying. A 90 is too small. Why not get rid of the fish and start a reeftank? LOL I think the best fix for the moment is getting rid of a couple of fish and a way bigger skimmer.

[JeremyGlen]

The only thing I can add to the previous knowledge that has been given it that your Eheim canister is not going to come close to cleaning part of your tank. At most, it will suck up waste, store it, marinate it, and spit out more nitrates than you had before the water went in. If your going to use a canister, you need to clean the pads/ceramic/carbon at least once a week to get rid of the excess waste that builds up.

I used to have one of those when I set up my first 55g and it was amazing how much easier it was to keep the tank when I replace the Eheim with a refugium. Canisters are only good for one thing, active carbon filtration. Other than that, I would never put, or recommend to someone else that they put, a canister anywhere near anything other than a freshwater tank.

[Ram_Puppy]

Canisters are only good for one thing, active carbon filtration

now that is not entirely true.... they are good for polishing the water every now and again with a micron screen (like when you set up a new tank and want to get rid of the sand coud fast!)

seriously though, Jeremy is right, mechanical filtration in the reef, on any scale, pretty much sucks unless you stay on it with religious zeal.

[Brian1f1]

Your trigger are likely going to kill each other, perhaps the lion fish to... undulate trigger with a clown in a 90? good luck.... (and I really do hope it works!)

[jap1]

Why not just put a big sump underneath the tank for extra water volume/skimming equipment/etc? There's a million great ways you could set up a sump. You'd still probably have to get rid of some fish, but I'd imagine a sump/refugium could only help your situation. Good luck Cedric.