Remote, or, multiple remote Refugiums WITHOUT AN IN-DISPLAY.

[TexasTodd]

A friend of mine from Boise ID has been in town for about a week. He was on the site the other day "GARF volunteer" His name is Scott and he's a super nice guy, as well as, very adept reef keeper. Scott is how I met Mike P.

Scott is also president of the Local reef club in Boise.

I have been thinking for a while about using remote refugiums.....not a new idea..............BUT, REMOTE WITH A BARE BOTTOM, OR, LIGHT ASTHETIC SAND BOTTOM THAT SERVES NO FILTRATION.

I found out in November that Paletta has a bare bottom tank, BUT, he also has a couple different refugiums including an Ecosystem mud refugium within his system.

Scott and I had a conversation about this as Scott has sucessfully run a Plenumn (spelling?) for years, but has a new larger tank on order, and is looking to do multiple remote refugiums with a minimal amount of asthetic sand in his new display.

I have started Richard's (CB Pets) carbon refugium, and, may add another small refugium of one of the following: EcoSystem Mud, DSB, or Plenumn.

No one doubts that these different types of "bottom filters" work, but, they also seem to be prone to problems due to age or other items added to the system from time to time.

SO, GIVEN THESE "PROBLEMS" THAT POP UP, THE MAIN ISSUE IS THEY ARE UNDER ALL YOUR LIVE ROCK, CORALS, AND AQUASCAPING. IN ADDITTION THEY CAN DUMP SOME REALLY NASTY STUFF IN YOUR WATER IF DISTURBED.

By going remote several positives happen.

1. Pretty much all the detritus get's removed from the main display.
2. This detritus first gets a much higher chance of getting skimmed out/off before settling out.
3. You don't have a bunch of rock and corals sitting on top of the "bed" that render that part of the "bed" inaffective or less efficient.
4. If the "bed" goes "bad" it can now be fixed or removed without screwing with all your babies in the display.
5. The remote "beds" can be shut off from the rest of the system for work or replacement, if needed, without putting the system in as much jepordy as tearing appart the display would.
6. You can set up multiple methodologies getting benefits from several ways of filtration; hopefully making a more healthy system than just one could.

My feeling is these multiple refugiums would not need to each be all that large.

Comments?

Todd

[GaryP]

I like the idea of having several fuges for different things. However, its hardly practical without a fish room so it would be difficult for the average reefer. I'm still trying to figure out how to jam everything under the stand and the additional cabinets I plan on building for my new tank.

I think Dan is running a seperate macro and Xenia fuge on his tank as well as some other folks on MAAST. Maybe they can hump in here. Don-n-SA, aren't you running multiple fuges as well?

[don-n-sa]

Yes I run two different remote Fuges...one used to be a DSB with mangroves but I recently switched to a "carbon fuge" the other one is a 75gal fuge built by Dan that has two compartments one with a sandbed and one BB with "rolling cheato".

Todd....here is a couple more postives

1. obviously adds to your overall water volume

2. when adding new fish ...they go from QT to my fuge...they stay in the fuge for a few weeks to fatten up and get them used to the water. When it is time to add to the display its just a matter of throwing them in...no accclimation needed. That way they are not getting messed with by the other fish at the same time they are getting used to the water...and they are eating already so if it takes a few days or a week to eat with
"the gang" then is should not be a problem.

[TexasTodd]

Good points Donny!

Todd

[gjuarez]

Todd, when I built my sump/fuge I made it so I could put some macro algae in it but with no sand. (A barebottom fuge.) Then I started to do some thinking and realized that it may not be a good option for me. Why? Because the plan with my barebottom tank was to keep a very nutrient poor system. My take was that I was probably going to starve the macro to death without the appropriate levels of nutrients. I am still wondering if thats the case. Could the macro live on just light?

[TexasTodd]

You're right Jerry, the Macro cannot live if nutrients are low enough. But, from Bomber, "the optimum point of nutrients for SPS are where Macro will not grow, but Micro still will."

I got low enough with BB that I was hitting the lower limit and started loosing some sps due to PO4 being too low. And, of course, my colors were not as good as they could have been.

Then I started feeding a bunch more. My colors got much better, but then I reached a point where my skimmers could not keep up I guess, as macro started to grow where I had none previously in the system. Then I lost some colonies due to the nutrients being TOO high.

So, being caught, I'm looking in to some additional filtration. The problem I see is BB is good, but you can't put the amount of food in for optimum colors, without some bad side affects. Unless you have an absolutely monster skimmer (GreenMako).

I love the BB and getting the crap out of my display. Also not worrying about dead spots in the sand etc and what to do if the bed goes bad.

Thus the remote, multiple refugium/bed/etc. idea. Also, I don't see these being all that large as they are supplemental.

Who knows, that's why this hobby is fun to me!

Todd

[gjuarez]

"You're right Jerry, the Macro cannot live if nutrients are low enough. But, from Bomber, "the optimum point of nutrients for SPS are where Macro will not grow, but Micro still will."

I hadnt looked at it this way. This is a very accurate assumption in my opinion. Not enough for macro to grow but enough for micro to grow. This should be called the PO4 threshold rule. I like Richard's idea of a carbon fuge. I might give it a try and will add macro if needed if I see that my skimmer is not keeping up with the nutrients. How are your nitrates? Are they pretty high? PO4? If my skimmer doesnt keep up with the nutrients I forsee my system being way of the chart in these two parameters. What do you suggest I should watch for with my new tank? Is there anything you would do different with your tank?

[TexasTodd]

Like I said, my PO4 was actually too low at one point, but my coral's colors were not as good as they could of been. They still looked good, but not optimum.

I think you can run a BB system forever and have things "good". But if you want to tweak it to it's optimum for the corals, the Paletta "feed lots, remove lots" I don't think BB alone can do it. Unless you have a skimmer rated (for real) about 6+ times your system's size. Then you still have to have low levels of rock and all the rock very "vertical" so nothing settles out on the rock. GreenMako has done a good job with this, but I just don't "want" to aquascape my tank that way.

I also think the "coral food" that CB Pets has will help in letting us feed more without detrimental affects on the systems.

I've run DSBs in several tanks and liked them. But, I've also been pretty sure they went south on be a couple of times. Same thing, they are supposed to be "open" and have plenty of flow. Well, that's a little hard with a bunch of rocks on top of them. So, size wise, you possibly could have a much smaller DSB set up, without any rocks "blocking it", and get similar filtration....at least is sounds good.

The carbon bed interests me because Richard, Mark, and some of their customers have all had similar positive results AND RICHARD FEEDS A TON. LOL

I guess it all boils down to me wanting to find tools that let me feed more without having detrimental affects on my system.

TT

[TexasTodd]

One more thing I noticed, way before going BB.

Bomber did light feeding and a low light period. This was very sucessful for him with healthy corals and great growth.........BUT, his colors SUCKED BIG TIME imo. :)

Todd

[gjuarez]

Yup, I really dont know what Bomber does, I really like his tank. The low profile tank is cool. His corals did lack a bit of coloration. I hope my skimmer can keep up, with almost no denitrifcation bacteria I am seriously in trouble if it doesnt. THe skimmer is rater for 3 x the size of my aquarium so I think I should be OK. I will also be skimming extra wet. I am still debating on the carbon bed fuge idea, I think for my system getting a phosban reactor with carbon might be a little better. TOdd, what exactly is the "coral food" that cb pets sells. I am really looking into using supplimetal food for my sps.

[Ram_Puppy]

My new tank has one of Richards Deep Carbon Beds... (WATER GOES IN THIS WEEK!!!!! YAY YAY YAY!!!!) and as I continu building, I will add in refugiums.

Step 2 refugium will be fed off them main pump. there is an odd triangular space between my tank, the wall and a window (it's a bay window) and I plan on filling that small area with a simple refugium crafted from wood and lined with a couple layers of pond liner. It will be filled with live rock, and I will plant some mangroves in it, then put egg crate around the trunks of the mangroves and place black river rocks over the eggcrate. essentially it becomes a salt water pot w/ a mangroves planted in it, and the live rock filling up it's insides becomes a perfect cryptic refugium for pod production.

Step 3 may or may not happen depending on the wife... but I hope it does.

Build a simple window seat into the bay window, inside I will either put a 55 or a custom designed refugium. this one will be filled w/ mud and and turtle grass. nothing else. probably the mangrove refugium will gravity feed into this one, and this one will gravity feed back into the sump, right into the feed to the pump to return to the tank (which will hopefully reduce the amount of goodies getting skimmed out of the tank) (goodies = epiphytic matter off the seagrasses, and larval pods and such.)

I still have another T off the return pump that I can use to yet another refugium / tank but the only place then is UP, and that would mean over the tank, I think all I could do without being constantly worried about the weight would be a 10 or 15 gallon tank.

I may put liverock in the sump as well, not sure.

[bigdscobra]

I dont have any noticable growth in my chaeto, is this a good thing?? its not dieing and doesnt look bad it just never grows. My skimmer is just a seaclone 100 which maybe fills the cup up once a week. I guess its because my fuge, and sump which has live rock is almost the size in gallons of my displays. I also run carbon and feed A LOT.

So is no chaeto growth good?

[scuba_steveo]

I have an aptasia fuge that is awesome!!!

[TexasTodd]

Aptasia fuges are the best!

Dan, it could be the quality of lighting over your Cheato.

Rampuppy, sounds NICE!

Jerry, you'll not run it to problems, unless you feed a lot...then possibly.

I have no idea what the "coral food" is. I really think of it more as a nutrient reducing fluid. It is good IMO.

Todd

[bigdscobra]

The lighting may be the issue its dual 40w philips growth bulbs, I am thinking about using some 96w PCs that I just got from seamonkey. I will let you know if that makes a difference.

Apatasia fuge LOL thats my anglers tank but most of them are DEAD now :D