Mikeyboy's old 215 - BOTTOM is DEFINATELY TEMPERED!!

[Bill S]

OK, for those that don't know, here's the deal. Talked Mamma into moving her china cabinet. So now I'm installing it to be a double sided see-thru tank. We have a PERFECT spot for it, 2x7. With a wet bar for plumbing right next to it. So, here's the dilemma (sp?). I've removed the 2 overflow boxes. Should I:

1) mount them at either end of the tank, and have it re-drilled

2) mount both at one end of the tank

3) Put Calfo in one end instead

If I put both at one end or a Calfo at one end, I'd put the return(s) at the other end for good flow. Thinking about using the overflow old holes for a closed loop system.

Any advice/thoughts would VERY appreciated!

[hobogato]

i have a 240 long that is see thru both sides with the overflows on the ends and really like it.

here it is before anything was in it.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/tank1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/tank2.jpg

[Bill S]

OK, I changed the title - maybe that will get some responses. I REALLY need to get this project going. PLEASE give me your thoughts!

Thanks!

[Ross]

I like the idea of a calfo, but with just 1 at the end you wont get alot of skimming action. 1 calfo at each end is prolly what i would do...

[hobogato]

if you put the calfo on one long side, it will be an eyesore. if you put calfo's on each end, you will be able to see into them as well from both sides and you wont get much more surface skimming than you would with two standard type overflows. just my opinion, but i didnt want to see into the overflows from anywhere - hence the black acrylic covering every surface of them.

[georgeortiz]

IMO due to the location of the instalation the best solution would be an overflow and return at one end of the tank coupled with maybe a closed loop for additional circulation.
I have a 75 gallon that I have a calfo in positioned the same way and it does look a little funny.

[MikeyBoy]

I think you should reinstall the overflows in both ends................

The oceanic overflows are kind of cool cause they pull water from 3 parts of the water column.
That is how Oceanic does them........

then used the old holes for closed loop............

MP

[Bill S]

Anyone see any problems with adding 4 more holes to the bottom of this tank? Or would I be better off adding returns somewhere else and only drilling 2 holes?

Also, on the comment about adding a calfo to just one end - that would give me 2 feet of skimming - that's more overflow than the 2 Oceanic overflows offer, right? What am I missing?

[SBreef]

Make sure that the tank bottom is NOT tempered. before attempting to drill new holes! My new 125, the bottom is tempered.

[TexasTodd]

Personally, I'd use a Calfo at one end only, it will be plenty.

I'd put 4 1" bulkhead sized holes in that area with all being drains.

It will be plenty for skimming and you'll have the other end looking nice.

TT

[Bill S]

The tank already has 4 holes in the bottom - I don't THINK they temper after drilling, do they? Roy, does your 125 with a tempered bottom also have holes in it?

[JeffCo]

I agree with Todd, use only one end for the calfo overflow. This way you have 3 viewable sides and it will be plenty of surface skimming. Then use all of them for drains. Either 4 1" or 2 1.5-2" drains.

[hobogato]

if he is putting it in a wall to divide two rooms, he will be looking thru the front and the back - not either end. if you put a calfo in an end, you will see into it from the front and the back unless you cover the the view with black acrylic. as far as surface skimming, my overflows are each 6.5 X 10, which gives you a total surface skimming length of 23" (2 X 6.5 + 10) - only 1 inch less than a calfo that goes from front to back in one end.

[hobogato]

The tank already has 4 holes in the bottom - I don't THINK they temper after drilling, do they?

and btw, i have heard of tank makers drilling a piece of glass and then temperring it, so you may want to get in contact with Lonestar (I think that is where mike got the tank) and see what they say.

[Bill S]

The tank came from Oceanic - it's a brick. MAN I'd hate to have it crack... She'd KILL me.

Yes, it's going between 2 walls. My primary only reason to go to a calfo is a concern about drilling more holes in the bottom - but it IS 3/4".

For a calfo, It would be in the upper corner. I'm maybe thinking about not running it entirely side to side, and leave enough room between it and the front to "park" a tiger shark.

[hobogato]

Lonestar is the local distributor for Oceanic tanks i think.

[GaryP]

Bill,

The idea behind a calfo is to skim a thin layer from as much surface area as possible. I'm not saying what you are trying to do won't work, but its not a true calfo. It will still work, but not necessarily as efficiently as a full lenght calfo.

[Richard]

Lonestar is the distributor, I don't think they'll help you with much of anything. They deal with shops only.

You can drill the bottom of a a 215 brick but you cannot drill the back. It's not tempered but the tank is designed to bow a little so if you drill the back it is likely to crack somehwhere down the road. Oceanic will not drill the sides of a 215...I tried to get them to do that on Blake's tank and they said no way.

[TexasTodd]

Oceanic will not drill the sides of a 215...I tried to get them to do that on Blake's tank and they said no way. = Todd's :) :) :)

TT

[GaryP]

We need to set up a MAAST tank genealogy.

[Bill S]

I've emailed Oceanic with the Serial number. Hopefully, they will confirm that the bottom/sides are not tempered. Frankly, I'm STILL not sure what to do... The calfo makes me "feel" a bit better - because the holes would be towards the top. I think I'm "6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other" on the overflow on the ends and how it will look, vs. a calfo on one end "hidden" by the Tiger Shark magnets. PLEASE nudge me in one direction or the other...

[Bill S]

Uh oh. JUST got a note back from Oceanic after supplying them with the date of mfg and the serial number:

THE BOTTOM IS TEMPERED! Yup. Dang glad we didn't try drilling it yet!

That leaves holes for the ends only. I'm thinking a 20" calfo on one end (leaving about 1-1/2" on each end for the mag cleaner). 3 or 4 1-1/2" holes (for 1-1/4" drains), and a 1-1/2" hole for a drain for water changes. I'll use the existing holes for a closed loop.

Thoughts?

[GaryP]

Oceanic will not drill the sides of a 215...I tried to get them to do that on Blake's tank and they said no way. = Todd's :) :) :)

My question is if the bottom is tempered, how did they drill it? And, why won't Oceanic drill the sides? I would suggest you get more information from them on this. Something isn't adding up here.

[Bill S]

Apparently, some manufacturers temper the glass AFTER drilling. I'd have to think that Oceanic doesn't recommend the BOTTOM part of the SIDES. The top part should be fine? There's like NO pressure up there. This is getting ugly...

[GaryP]

I was under impression that glass was tempered at the plant when it is made. Its not like a blacksmith tempering steel by quenching it.

[GaryP]

I did some research. I still think something isn't adding up here.

In the "heat-treatment" process the key procedure is application of a rapid air quench immediately upon withdrawal of hot (approx. 1200 ° F) glass from the "tempering furnace." The immediate and sustained application of an air quench produces the temper. As air direction against hot glass from arrays of fixed, reciprocation or rotating blast nozzles, it is important to extract heat uniformly from both surfaces (uneven heat extraction may produce bow or warp) and to sustain the quench long enough to prevent reheating of the glass surfaces from the still-hot glass core. A quenched condition becomes stable when the glass is reduced to a temperature of approximately 400-600 ° F.

[NaCl_H2O]

Oceanic will not drill the sides of a 215...I tried to get them to do that on Blake's tank and they said no way. = Todd's :) :) :)

TT

They drilled mine :P

[Bill S]

OK, I guess I'll CALL them in the am. I have a name and phone number. Gary, a place the size of oceanic may make their own glass. Re-tempering isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

In any case, does ANYONE see a problem drilling the TOP of the END of my tank?

[NaCl_H2O]

Bill, my Oceanic bricks were ordered custom. Standard sizes, but overflow palcements and holes for closed loops made the "Cu$tom". I have a 215 (just like Mike's) and a 140 brick - both have holes drilled in the end panels.

I wouldn't drill any holes until you get confirmation from Oceanic - they have always been fairly responsive to my questions.

[GaryP]

I can almost guarantee that Oceanic doesn't make their own glass. Why plant cotton just because you want a shirt? Glass is a common commodity, even though Oceanic is proud of their's.

[Richard]

both have holes drilled in the end panels


I meant the side (6') panels.

[GaryP]

OK, now that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up Richard.

[Bill S]

Well, I just got off the phone with Oceanic. They temper ALL bottoms AFTER drilling. He said he answers phone calls/emails all day long over this issue. He is absolutely positive that the bottom was tempered. So... thoughts? Gary? Weren't you the one who talked me into this?? ;)

[MikeyBoy]

I have not a clue!!!!!!! :blink :blink :blink :blink :blink :sick :sick :huh :huh :huh

I feel for you all of a sudden.

[ratboy]

You can and I have drilled tempered glass you just need to go alot slower when cutting it. Then again the largest tempered tank I drilled was only a 75 (still ok after 5-6 years) and I dont know if I'd trust it with that much water. Ive drilled probably 5-6 tempered tanks and only 1 shattered (didnt build up a dam for antifreeze).

[Bill S]

Hey mikey & gary, I'm just kidding with y'all - this is kind of fun, in a weird sort of way.

So, my choices at this point are to have holes drilled towards the bottom of the ends and re-route the overflow drains, or put in a calfo at one end.

[GaryP]

Go with your closed loop the way you planned, drill the sides for the calfo, and then run your returns over the top with Locline. I still don't understand how they temper it after drilling it.

[SBreef]

Gary,

How about this, they (oceanic) has the plate glass cut and drilled before they get it?

[GaryP]

The problem is that tempering is part of the manufacturing process.

[SBreef]

What I meant was, that all of that was done at the time the plate glass was made.

[brewercm]

Are the holes actually part of the mold basically. Maybe not a mold that they use but just putting into laymans terms.

[GaryP]

You got me on that one. That would explain part of the cost of Oceanic tanks though. It would be custom glass from the manufacturer.

[Bill S]

No, actually it's pretty simple. The holes are drilled at Oceanic. They have a tempering oven that they then put the glass into to temper it - it can be done at any time, not just at the manufacturing stage. Tempering and annealing isn't THAT difficult, once you have the equipment in place (annealing is the opposite of tempering). It's all a matter of consistent temperature control. At one time in a prior life I worked for a big steel/aluminum company...

[Bill S]

Gary, et al,

If I go with the calfo, how do I determine what level to glue the overflow line on the calfo box? How big dimensionally does the box need to be (like 3" x 3")?

Does 3 or 4 1-1/2" holes sound ok, or should they/could they be 1-1/4 or 1"?

[Bill S]

OK, I guess I'm on my own.

Well, I've done a bunch of research - and everything I've read says the more/bigger the holes, the better - for cutting down on noise. So, I'm thinking of 4 1-1/2" holes. I'll put the weir at the same height as the overflow on the old ones from Oceanic. Hope it works.

Anyone have a good source of glass for my calfo?

[LoneStar]

Samuels might be able to help you out on glass.

[GaryP]

I have two 36" holes drilled for my calfo. That should give me 2 X 2" drains after the bulkheads go in. This is for a 5 foot long calfo. Location depends on where you want the water level to be. A calfo usually doesn't have teeth on it like a regular overflow to provide a thinner layer of water skimming. Snails or other "chunky" things shouldn't be a problem for drains as larger as you are talking about, but you might want to consider what you are going to use as a screen on the calfo. Pete or Dan can probably help you out there. They both built calfos for their tanks and build them for others.

[Bill S]

Gary, 36" HOLES? How BIG is that tank! Seriously, thanks for the info. Maybe I'll get Pete or Dan to just build mine for me. I sure don't mind spending the $$. I have Pete's email address, but don't have Dan's.

[GaryP]

Opps, sorry, I meant 3" holes.

[MrZ2u]

Why not run it shallow and the full length of both sides...then bring the trim on the top down to cover it?