Texas coast LR

[Jenn]

We were at Port Aransas this past weekend and the tide was very low. My friends and I walked along the shore and found some unbelieveable shapes of live rock (not tar rocks) and they are very nice - especially for the Texas coast. Some are very similar to tonga branch.

My question is: Is it possible to put these in a tub and cure / clean them for a month or 2 with a skimmer? I have them in the tub now with some fresh mixed saltwater and an airstone.

If anyone has considered or even done this, your input is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Jenn

[Reef69]

I'd love to see a pic or two of the rock Jenn :innocent

[cbianco]

Jenn

I am sure that it IS possible to cure the rock without any problem.

You should be asking about the ethical and environmental effects of taking live rock from the coast. Just my 2 cents.

Christopher

[pilot_bell777]

Where do you think the suppliers get it from that you pay $8 a lb for....they sure aren't creating it in their basements......

If that is the case guess everyone should be asking that about everything in their tanks......should think about that everytime they turn on a light switch, put on clothes, eat store bought food, or better yet drive a car.

Sorry Chris....not trying to jump on you, just struck a cord! Lets not make this into a holy war...

Jen....if it was in the ocean or on the beach or in your back yard you shouldn't have a problem curing it and putting it in the tank. You may not like the hitch hikers but chance you'll have to take! LOL

Put some pics on here want to see this!!!!
I used about 60lbs of limestone I picked up at my local park and washed real good for the base rock in my first tank and it ran great without any problems (outside of ICK Fest) for a long time. Rock is rock is rock is rock.

[cpreefguy]

...is rock :lol

[pilot_bell777]

Re-read my last post...sorry Chris if that came off rude, didn't intend for it to be!

Forgiveness!

[cbianco]

Jenn asked for all "input." I provided my input. These are valid arguements and little tidbits that we must think about.

Pilot, my intention is far from starting a "holy war." Opinions were asked, opinions were given. There are ways to minimalize effects to living reefs such as "created" live rock. Granted this rock may look a bit different, it is an option!

Christopher

[pilot_bell777]

I agree, I agree....that is why I posted again cause I didn't want to sound like I was attacking you or being rude!

:-)

It's all good!

[cbianco]

Re-read my last post...sorry Chris if that came off rude, didn't intend for it to be!

Forgiveness!

We are all passionate about this hobby. Discussions bring discoveries! :)

It takes a bit more for me to be upset at someone. I see your point of view and value your opinion.

All is well on the homefront! :) Cool Beans :)

Christopher

EDIT: My post posted a bit late, dang dial up.

[tgray]

check with the parks and wildlife dept, it may be a federal offense.
Tim

[Richard]

I don't see why you couldn't use it. Just make sure there isn't a big tar ball on it, or those little rock anemones that are good at snagging fish, or a baby rock crab or blue crab, or any other unwanted texas critter.

I'm not sure but I think it is illegal to collect rock from the coast like it is in florida. So if you see a game warden...drop that rock quick!

Once upon a time there was a shop called Window to the Sea on austin hwy. I think it's a tattoo/head shop now. Anyway, they had this guy who would bring up florida rock (natural not cultured) back when it was legal to collect it. The rock went from the ocean into filtered tanks on his boat. Then he had a van with filtered tanks in the back and he would drive it up from florida. So it was never dry. Man that was the coolest rock I have ever seen!

I couldn't afford to buy much of it though cause I was a poor boy back then and it was really expensive, something like $4 a lb.

[TheOtherGuy]

Funny: :o

To ship 100lbs 36x18x12 from San Antonio to th Fiji Islands or Tonga it would cost over $1,300 via UPS. So that is something like $13/lb.


From UPS.com:

Detailed Results

Ship From: SAN ANTONIO, 78240, UNITED STATES
Ship To: TONGA, TONGA
Shipment Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2006
Bill to UPS Account: Yes
Total Shipment Weight: 100 lbs.
Drop-off / Pickup: On-Call PickupSM - I will arrange on the web for UPS to pick up my package(s)
Address Type: Commercial
Number of Packages: 1
Packaging: Your Packaging
Customs Value: 600.00 USD
Duty Type: 01 - Dutiable
Currency: USD
Begin Your Shipment
anchor imagePackage Information

UPS Worldwide ExpressSM - zone 907
Delivered by: By End of Day
Friday
February 10, 2006

Shipment Total:1,363.13*USD

[SBreef]

Richard,

I remember that shop. I used to live close by. It was across the drive way from what is now Planet K

[GaryP]

Just to add to what Richard said. They do have a couple of operations that produce cultured live rock in Florida. They basically take terrestial rock with good porosity and drop it off into the Gulf for a couple of years. They rotate the harvesting of this rock. I have a friend that has some of it and it has some absolutely wild stuff growing on it. Lots of live barnacles and sun corals. It did have some less then helful hitchhiker crabs, but some quick work with a pair of tweezers and a quick trip to the fuge took care of that.

My opinion on the ethical questions mentioned: If Jenn saw this stuff on the beach then it was probably washed up there. Because of the sandy nature of our beaches, it would probably be eventually covered in sand and no longer serve as viable live rock anyway. So, in a way, I could see how she could be "rescuing" it. I see a lot of coral skeletons washed up on the beach. I assume they are carried up here from the caribean on the Gulf Stream and some ends up depositing on the beaches. Some coral may also be coming from the oil rigs as well. They routinely send divers down to grind off the stuff encrusting the legs to install anti-corrosion equipment called galvanic protection. I recall a couple of years ago, one of our members found a large number of live sea whip gorgonians on the beach during spring break. He brought them back and we split them up at a meeting but I don't know if anyone was able to keep them alive.

Was he wrong for collecting these specimens? I doubt it since they would have died on the beach anyway.

[Jenn]

Thanks guys. I appreciate any and all input. I takes a whole lot to offend me, so no worries on any remarks. I am passionate about this hobby too.

The rock was collected mostly on a private stretch of beach that my friends own a RV park on, so I saw no harm in taking the rock. I am sure there will be no problems from this.

The critters that were found were all thrown back into the water. I hope to find any hitchikers that may have tagged along will freak out on the fresh mixed saltwater and show themselves. We are going down again in a few weeks and they will be returned to where they belong.

I am going to start curing it and will take some pics soon. Thanks again! ;)

[Jenn]

Oh yea, I received one of those sea whips that Gary spoke about. Mine survived wonderfully for about a year - much longer than it would have baking in the beach sun.

[Thunderkat]

It would be bad if live rock went extinct. I can see it on the news..."In our latest story, live rock, on the brink of extinction, film and news at 11 along with could your children be ticking time bombs ready to explode destroying you and your home if you don't watch this story".

[GaryP]

Just for the record, there is no such thing as private beach. There is such a thing as private access to the beach. It all belongs to the state up to the high tide line. I'm not quite sure how hotels are able to block off stretches of the beach from public access. I know this happens at Port A. I'm sure there is some clause in state law or some exception that allows them to do that, but the beach itself is still public property. They may prevent you from driving there, but they cannot prevent access, at least as far as the high tide line.

[GaryP]

Most of the harvested LR is simply rubble that falls to the base of the reef. Its not like they go out there and blast it with dynamite like they used to for building material. Its a lot simpler to just pick up the stuff that gets broken and falls to the base of the reef due to storms.

[Richard]

It would be bad if live rock went extinct.


That is why you should return your liverock to the ocean when your done with your tank. Set it free again!

It will migrate back to it's home using the earths magnetic poles as a compass.

[cpreefguy]

It would be bad if live rock went extinct.


That is why you should return your liverock to the ocean when your done with your tank. Set it free again!

It will migrate back to it's home using the earths magnetic poles as a compass.

:lol Thats the best post I've seen in a long time :lol

ROFL!!!! Me too :lol :lol :lol :lol

[jap1]

That's hilarious. In all seriousness though, I wonder if it would be prudent to worry about pollutants that may come with Texas Coast LR. Especially after the last Hurricane, I would imagine a lot of really bad stuff was dumped into the gulf. Especially when they were trying to pump all the water out of New Orleans. That stuff was nasty. I know they pumped it into the lake, but doesn't the lake flow into the gulf? It must of at least impacted the quality of the water along the coastline.

[bigdscobra]

I know this has been discussed before but WHAT can we actually collect legally and not have to worry about. I am thinking about going with a friend next weekend to the cost and both of us have diving equipment so what would we be able to collect with out a problem???

[cpreefguy]

People catch ghost shrimp, gobies, anemones, etc. down there all the time... I dont think you should have a problem

[LoneStar]

It would be bad if live rock went extinct.


That is why you should return your liverock to the ocean when your done with your tank. Set it free again!

It will migrate back to it's home using the earths magnetic poles as a compass.

:lol Thats the best post I've seen in a long time :lol

ROFL!!!! Me too :lol :lol :lol :lol


It might be a LONG farewell waiting for the rock to roll back into the ocean. Better bring a case of beer and a lawn chair just in case 8)

[pilot_bell777]

I'll offer to take all unwanted rock back for everyone! LOL





back to my house.....

[JimD]

That's hilarious. In all seriousness though, I wonder if it would be prudent to worry about pollutants that may come with Texas Coast LR. Especially after the last Hurricane, I would imagine a lot of really bad stuff was dumped into the gulf. Especially when they were trying to pump all the water out of New Orleans. That stuff was nasty. I know they pumped it into the lake, but doesn't the lake flow into the gulf? It must of at least impacted the quality of the water along the coastline.

This post needs more emphasis, its very important in my opinion. If the rock is indeed live rock and has a certain ammount of pourosity, its most likely contaminated with unwanted organics that 'curing' wont get rid of. Since it was found along the coast in a heavily populated area, no doubt it has absorbed local pollutants that will eventualy leech out into the water. Theres no way Id put it in a tank with any reef animals or corals and feel comfortable long term, just to risky for me. Blue water rock is the only way to go.

[GaryP]

What is the difference between unwanted and wanted organics? Which are good and which are bad? They are all biodegraded to some degree when its cured. Isn't that why we put LR in our tanks, to break down organics. What is the difference between pollutants coming from Port Aransas and the pollutants coming from some village in Fiji?

[JimD]

lmao, Go ahead and use it then! Why do you spend the bucks for good rock when the same stuffs an hour and a half away? No thanks. The Port A shoreline is nasty and theres no way Im putting that crud in my tank, but hey! Go for it!

[LoneStar]

If your worried about it couldn't you 'cook' the rock or sit it outside dry in the sun for a month or so. Clean it and the cure it for a few months? If you really like the shape that is cause that would be alot of rock....and I see the angle your going with Gary.

[oceancube]

hey jenn, well ithink you should do what you think is right and if it goes bad then it goes bad, if it goes good then you'll be happy, never know till you try it out, better then hearing all these remarks from ppl, JUST DO IT GIRL........ ;)

[Instar]

From the first blade of sea grass that starts the inland side of the Laguna Madre all the way out, everything is protected. Its classed as a national refuge and breeding area. You may not take live rock, coral or do anything that affects nesting birds or fish or shrimp or shell fish or their off spring anywhere. Endangered species, commercial and game related fish have a higher penalty. Poachers of rock, coral or other may have all vehicles confiscated including the toys and fishing equipment. Fines are very high and make that $1300 pound box of figi look cheap. You can pick up some stuff (not all of it) on the beach but if its coral or maybe sea whips, better remember the spot well so you can prove it. If its in your possession and you are stopped, its going to cost you unless you are very convincing. You can not even cross over into Mexico and collect anymore because Mexico has also started restricting collecting. It may be possible to get a licesnse or special permit if you were to collect things such as that from the oil rigs that is removed by the cleaning. You would have to keep such a letter or permit on you at all times. Otherwise, rocks and coral for the home aquarium is not legal. You may collect bait with nets or silly little things like scrape a thing or two off a piling or jetty rock presumably used for bait and bring that home. You may catch grass shrimp with a little net but if using a large commercial net will need a permit and have to abide by such rules so commercial species are not impacted. The entire Texas Coast is protected, as are all other states. Its possible a game warden can supply more details, but not all park rangers have the jurisdiction or information. If one tells you its ok, they are not the correct one to ask. Its not ok to collect.

[cpreefguy]

ok, dont do it!

[bigdscobra]

LOL

[GaryP]

lmao, Go ahead and use it then! Why do you spend the bucks for good rock when the same stuffs an hour and a half away? No thanks. The Port A shoreline is nasty and theres no way Im putting that crud in my tank, but hey! Go for it!
I was just trying to make a philosophical point Jim. Some of the "pristine" pacific reefs that you referred to are being hit hard by phosphate run-off, sedimentation, and sewage discharge. You should know by know I sometimes have a tendency to say stuff just to get people to think about an issue from both sides.

One of the prettiest patches of Xenia I ever saw was in Indonesia... right off a sewage discharge line. You don't even want to think about what they consider sewage treatment in Indonesia. The afore mentioned patch of Xenia was a couple miles wide and had overgrown a very nice SPS reef.

[falcondob]

.... You may not take live rock, coral or do anything that affects nesting birds or fish or shrimp or shell fish or their off spring anywhere. Endangered species, commercial and game related fish have a higher penalty. Poachers of rock, coral or other may have all vehicles confiscated including the toys and fishing equipment. Fines are very high and make that $1300 pound box of figi look cheap. ...

Folks, this an issue you need to take very seriously. Because, I can assure you, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service DO! They have no sense of "it is just a little rock, or fish, or shrimp, or...or.." They have heard it all and don't care. They have a large hammer and they will use it. Not only that, but any action can cause a black-eye for the whole hobby. I personally don't know what a fishing license would entitle you to take or not, but I wouldn't do it without WRITTEN permission. It is just not worth it. You can buy dry Pukani for $1-2 per pound (and Pukani is VERY porous and light) and cure it out yourself.
John

[LoneStar]

SO what is their position on collecting sea shells and whatnot? If the mentioned rock is collected on/near the beach what would make it different from live/dead sea inverts that a lot of people collect with no hassel......

[falcondob]

Well, it is like, "Did you know it is a Federal Offense (to include Federal jail time!) to pick up the molted feather of a raptor, even if said raptor is 10 countries away when you pick it up?" Would you go to jail or get fined for an honest mistake? Probably not, they would just confiscate. But, if you get the wrong agent on the right day or the right agent on the wrong day, they are fully empowered to issue you citation and/or arrest you. For generally honest people, it is not the laws you know and obey, it is the laws you don't even know you are breaking. It may be that taking those items from the beach is okay, maybe it is not. I am just saying that the powers that be hold all the cards. Sort of the "don't spit into the wind" issue. Be informed or be violated.

[bprewit]

TPWD are some real jerks and their laws are extremly strick and some are just plain ignorant. I understand some of the laws but others are caused from politics and stupidity. falcondob is right about the seriousness of making a mistake though as they seldom turn their heads and let you go even if it were an honest mistake. Cover your booty and read up on TPWD web site to save from the hassle and cost of making such a mistake.

[OldSalty]

If you had the rock in water on the trip back don't see why it would need to be cured. It already is. I would just put it in a tank and see what happens (not the main display tank). This so called live rock we pay 8 bucks a pound for is a joke and a rip-off IMO

[GaryP]

From the TPWD website;

It is unlawful for any person to take or kill shell-bearing mollusks, hermit crabs, starfish, or sea urchins from November 1 through April 30 within the following boundary: the bay and pass sides of South Padre Island from the East end of the north jetty at Brazos Santiago Pass to the West end of West Marisol Drive in the town of South Padre Island, out 1,000 yards from the mean high-tide line, and bounded to the south by the centerline of the Brazos Santiago Pass.
It is unlawful for any person to take, kill, or possess more than 15 univalve snails (all species), to include no more than two of each of the following species: lightning whelk, horse conch, Florida fighting conch, pear whelk, banded tulip, and Florida rocksnail.

That's just an example of what falcondob said. Who knew that? I'm sre there are more regs like that. Those are just some recent changes.

[GaryP]

A person taking or attempting to take crabs or ghost shrimp from salt water for non-commercial purposes is required to have a valid fishing license and a saltwater fishing stamp endorsement.

The daily limit for ghost shrimp is 20 per person. Why bother?

[GaryP]

I sent an email to the TP&WD enforcement section asking for some guidance.

From what I saw in the regs (which I could not paste here) is that anything not specifically listed in the regs (primrily game fish), and is not an endagered species, can be collected with a "hand device" as long as you have a fishing license and a saltwater stamp.

We'll see what we get back from TP&WD. Of course there may be some federal regs that apply that I did not see. TP&WD are also responsible for enforcing federal regs pertaining to wildlife in TX. So don't even think about bringing home a Kemp's Ridley Sea Turtle to put in your tank. :)

[bigdscobra]

Thanks Gary, the only thing they emailed me back was the 20 ghost shrimp a day per person too.

[discuspro]

Talking about live rock from Port Aransas, I used to go to school at A&M Corpus and picked up a tiny piece of rock from Port A once. I had never used wild rock before and thought it would be interesting to see what would show up if I didn't cure. Oh Boy! Bad deal. I had a sharpnose puffer at the time and one day he was looking kinda sickly and some of his skin looked like it had chunks out of it. I also had coral so I didn't med the tank I just freshwater dipped the fish really quick. Well I found clear parasitic numibranch looking things that I still don't know what they were. The fish survived the bath but there were more and more day after day that attached to him. He eventually died due to my misjudgement. Felt very bad about it, and learned something about wild rock.

[shelly123]

Hello all, my name is Ray and I am a reef addict and I have taken over my wife’s maast id and someday she will decides to get off her butt and create a maast id for her lazy husband. Back to the issue at hand. Is it safe to use live rock in a home aquarium? Well I asked myself the same question July of 04, when I was trying to catch a monster redfish off the intercoastal. I ran across an island of limestone rock. My father in-law said the island was created when they dredged out the ship channel. I did not catch the big one that day so I decided to take 2-10lb pieces of limestone rock that were not in the water. I put the two pieces in my 75 gal reef tank as base rock and they have been there for over a year and a half. The two pieces are very pores and now have good coralline growth. The inhabitants of my reef tank are still doing well.

[GaryP]

I went directly to source for info on this one:


Provided the fish, shrimp, plants and live rock collected will not be resold, any adults involved would need to have their fishing licenses and a saltwater stamp. Children under the age of 16 are exempt from this requirement. There is, of course, no collecting allowed in any state park.

As far as the collecting of live rock and plants from the area, although it is not prohibited, we do advise strongly against it. The reasons for this are that, as you know, live rock and plants provide an important base for an ecosystem. Removing very much of either of these from an area can lead to a reduction in the natural productivity and filtering ability of the ecosystem.

Thank you for your concern and let us know if you have further questions.

Sincerely,
Karen Pianka
Wildlife Permitting Specialist
Texas Parks & Wildlife
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
(512) 389-8212

[GaryP]

Hello all, my name is Ray and I am a reef addict and I have taken over my wife’s maast id and someday she will decides to get off her butt and create a maast id for her lazy husband. Back to the issue at hand. Is it safe to use live rock in a home aquarium? Well I asked myself the same question July of 04, when I was trying to catch a monster redfish off the intercoastal. I ran across an island of limestone rock. My father in-law said the island was created when they dredged out the ship channel. I did not catch the big one that day so I decided to take 2-10lb pieces of limestone rock that were not in the water. I put the two pieces in my 75 gal reef tank as base rock and they have been there for over a year and a half. The two pieces are very pores and now have good coralline growth. The inhabitants of my reef tank are still doing well.

Ray,

The material you are describing is not "Live Rock" in the traditional sense. Terrestial limestone does not have the same porosity as live rock harvested from a reef. The origin of the limestone may have been a reef a few million years ago, but over geological time it has been compacted and lost its porosity. In addition, it may have been chemically changed as it matured underground as minerals were leached out of it or added to it by surface water trickling through the limestone. I think the biggest thing is the porosity though. We are not talking about big holes, but rather millions of microscopic holes in the rock matrix that support bacterial life and make it "live rock".

[Richard]

Is any of the rock on the coast really "liverock"? I would think it is mostly just a rock with stuff on it. Unless it rolled all the way from the nearest reef which I think is the Flower Gardens.

[LoneStar]

Seems like most rock I see down there is either granite or limestone used for fill material and on jetties....

[GaryP]

Is any of the rock on the coast really "liverock"? I would think it is mostly just a rock with stuff on it. Unless it rolled all the way from the nearest reef which I think is the Flower Gardens.

I think some stuff may wash up on the beach from the Caribbean that was carried on the Gulf Stream. By the time it gets here there isn't much "live stuff" on it.