black spots on clowns is this ich?

[bluelinkia]

I purshased a pair of False Perculas. For the first three days or so my Yellow striped clown was picking on them. The problem stoped when I purshaded an anemone. The yellow stripe is all day on the anemone and doesn't pick on the small perculas anymore. But today I noticed a few black spots on both perculas..what are these black spots? are they parasites? PLEASE HELP

[Richard]

There is a disease called "Black Ick". It is cause by a parasitic turbellarian flatworm so it really isn't "ick".

Can you post a pic? Sometimes percs/ocellaris will look like they have black ick but it is only pigments as they darken in color. Some of them can get alot of black. So you should look real close and see if the black spots are only on the orange part of their body or all over. If it's only on the orange part then I wouldn't do anything.

If you think it is black ick then the recommended treatment is freshwater dips. Or you could treat with something like prazi-pro.

Just thinking aloud here...I wonder if flatworm exit would kill Black Ick?????????????

[bluelinkia]

thanks for the quick reply..... and about the black spots, yeah they are all over.. what weird thing is that none of my other fish are sick, other than my hippo. I've had the blue regal for almost two years now and it had never had ich problems. I had to take her out of the tank yesterday and I'm currently treating her copper in a small 5g tank. Do you think I should throw the clowns in there too. What about using GREENX or KENT RXp they say they're reefsafe, but I'm kind of scared about hurting my corals.

[Richard]

What about using GREENX or KENT RXp they say they're reefsafe, but I'm kind of scared about hurting my corals.


Those won't be effective against turbellarians. "Ick" is a protozoan and "Black Ick" is a worm so they require different treatments. Did the regal have ick or the black spots? Copper is not usually real effective against turbellarians.

I think I would treat with prazi-pro. It is supposed to be safe with corals although I haven't put that to the test. Maybe GaryP will chime in, I think he bought some to treat for flatworms once upon a time. I don't know if he used it though.

Here's the statement from hikari
"Contraindications: There are no known contraindications to the use of Liquid PraziPro™ except for use in marine (saltwater) systems where flatworms of the Polycladida order are being cultured."

For a full description...
http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm

[GaryP]

I never tried the Prazi-pro I got from you, but I have a feeling that after the post about acropora eating flatworms there might be a run on it.

I pretty got the flatworms under control with a tail spot wrasse so I never treated with it. It just took trying four or five fish to find the right one. OK, maybe more then that.

[blackstrips85]

i would envest in a warasse i have never had problems with wroms and maybe those fresh water dippes might work.

[GaryP]

I think I will do a test with the Prazi-pro on the aocel flatworms the next time I do a water change. I still have some that the wrasses haven't gotten to, but not as many as I used to. I have been trying to be paitent. One tank is almost flatworm free and the other is getting there.

In case anyone is interested, what I had success with is Halichoeres melanurus. I tried 5 species (six-line, dragon, yellow wrasse, and both species of mandarin) before finding this guy. Lpouis at AW turned me onto it. The first one I got had already cleaned up one of his tanks. I put one in my other tank that had cleaned out Mikeyboy's fuge. I'm not sure if they will eat the other pest flatworms such as the Acropora eating flatworms but its worth trying. They are not nearly as aggressive as other wrasses I have had such as a six-line. Their temperment is more like a yellow wrasse.

I think this all comes back to the idea of having a balanced ecosystem in our agauriums. Whenever we have outbreaks of pests its usually because we are limited to such a narrow selection of species in an aquarium that we rarely have the correct predators to control them. I have taken the approach that almost every fish I put in my tank is there for a reason. They are all wonderful fish in their own right, but they serve some function. For example: tangs, rabbitfish, and algae blennies for hair algae control; wrasses for flatworm control; rabbitfish for bubble algae control; and CBB for aiptasia control. When and if I see I have a red bug problem I may add a pipefish.

For better or worse, we are managing an ecosystem. Our systems are not "natural." When there is a major problem, only we as the system manager is at fault. While some chemicals may provide a quick fix, in the long run providing balance to the system is the better way in the long run to go about it.

I treated my system with Flatworm Exit several times. Guess what the result was? Just as many flatworms as before treating, that are now resistant to FE. What did I gain from it? Not much except a couple of big water changes and a lot of money out of my wallet. I have tried to take a more holistic approach to the management of the aquarium which includes providing a healthy stock of detritivores and appropriate predators and grazers. Dumping a bunch of toxins in the tank, while sometimes necessary in extreme conditions, is rarely the best solution. There always seems to be some larger negative issue that results from this approach down the road.

[GaryP]

Richard,

Would a cleaner shrimp eat these type of parasites? What about a neon goby?

[montana]

I've tried fresh water dips and I have them in a copper tank with the wippo tang.
Is thre a rist that the tang will get infected? The ich on the tang is almost gone but I want to keep it in there for another week or so, just to be on the safe side. But now I'm a bit concerned, I just read that copper doesn't work on black ich. What should I do? Should I set up another tank with diffrent medication for the clowns?

[Richard]

I don't know about the cleaner shrimp. Turbellarian has a similar life cycle to ick (cryptocaryon) but it does grow larger than crypto. The feeding parasite grows to 450um and the reproductive stage up to 750um. I don't know how small of a thing (in terms of um's) that a cleaner shrimp can eat but it might be worth a try. Like cryptocaryon it will reproduce in your tank and can infect other fish.

Prazi-pro "should" be safe to use with copper but you could remove the copper with carbon then treat with prazi-pro.

I have never read anything about hyposalinity and turbellarian but that could be worth a try. It might break it's life cycle.

[bluelinkia]

My copper band died today, well at least thats what it looked like, so I flushed him down the toilette. >>>>>>>>ALL DRAINS LEAD TO THE OCEAN>>>>>>>>>>. All my other fish are doing fine, I have the pair of clowns in a 5g tank, I havent been able to find Prazi-pro. Until I do....Ill continue doing the fresh water dips and maybe hyposalinity. Thanks everybody

[GaryP]

I don't remember you mentioning a CBB being sick. Was it new? Was it eating?

[bluelinkia]

Yeah I had had him for about two weeks, I hadn't noticed any signs of ich on him that's why I hadn't mentioned it. But the problem with him was the eating..I couldn't get him to eat. I tried sevral driffrent types of food...... frozen, pellets, flakes, etc....

[Reef69]

Rule of thumb: Never mix different clowns. Its a hit or miss, but mostly a miss. "Black ich" isnt a clown disease, it pretty much only affect tangs, its a tang disease. A pic would help, but i am about 95% sure its not ick or black ick or any of those. When clowns are bullied around and kicked out of the anemone, they seek refugee on anything, including zoanthids. Zoos sting clowns and leave black marks on them, like a burn.