Aiptasia Assassin Hired

[Henry]

I have some pest in my tank that I need to get rid of. Anyone care to do the honors?

But really what is the best way to rid my tank of these guys? peppermint shrimp, CBB, kalk paste, joes juice, vinegar, or tank breakdown.

Thanks

[NaCl_H2O]

How big of a tank, and just a few or really infested?

If just a few, a Kalk solution in a syringe is fairly effective. I finally got a CBB for each tank to keep them under control. The CBBs do a great job, just hope you aren't real fond of feather dusters ;)

[GaryP]

I'm a fan of CBB too. They're a difficult fish and I wouldn't recommend then to everyone though.

Try going to Instar's website (www.berghia.net) and do some reading. There's pros and cons to all of the methods. It just really depends on your system and which one is the best fit for you and your system.

[Henry]

I have a 180gal tank. Not really fond of feather dusters. It started with two, then quickly spread to about 10 that I can see.

[NaCl_H2O]

If there are 10 you can see, there are probably 20-30 you can't see. I have tried the berghia nudi's route without much success. For whatever reason I couldn't get a colony established. This seems to work for others, but can take a good bit of time to get a colony established. Look at Instar's site for all the details, this is a great resource on the subject!

If you go with a CBB, you need a healthy fish that is eating frozen mysis. Healthy CBBs are difficult to get, but CB Pets by far has the healthiest IMO. They can also show you them eating before buying. It will take a CBB 2-3 weeks before it really starts cleaning up the Aptasia, once most are gone, they need to fall back onto frozen mysis to eat.

Even still, you may have a fatality with a CBB, they are difficult fish.

In a 180, Kalk water or Joe's Juice probably isn't a realistic approach. There are far to many you cannot reach and thay will continue to flourish.

[Henry]

thanks for the advice. I've been leaning toward a CBB but wanted some advice from some more experienced members.

thanks

[GaryP]

My aiptasia were gone the first night I had a CBB in my 125. I just had a few that I could see. Like any fish, it will vary with the individual fish.

[GaryP]

I have had success with the berghia also, but probably didn't have enough aiptasia to support the ones I had in there and establish a breeding population. The eventually came back. IMO CBB are a better option for a long term solution of a smaller problem. Berghia are better for bigger problems. Peppermints will eat them too, but sometimes have to be trained to eat them in a seperate tank. They also sometimes have a nasty habit of eating other stuff, like soft corals. Again, there is no tried and true rule here. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I have heard reports of both.

[Thunderkat]

My favorite method of aiptasia control that I have found that works quickly and prevents the little monsters from spreading is FIRE. I pull the rock out they are on, grab my lighter, then I burn them until there is just a black spot left. It is very satisfying to see the aiptasia glowing red :lol

Since I have started doing that I haven't seen any more aiptasia. Either they learned to hide or they all died.

[hobogato]

works until one appears on the bottom rock in a huge stack. :huh

[Thunderkat]

works until one appears on the bottom rock in a huge stack. :huh

Large rock stacks do not deter the avenging maastard! Aiptasia must die!

Aiptasia...you killed my teacha'!!! Now you must pay! (Insert kung fu flip, chop, and grip here) :lol

[hobogato]

nice.

[scuba_steveo]

My solution was a trip to Port A. I heard cons of doing this but I was not going to lose the battle. I went to the coast with Don-n-sa and we cought about 100 peppermint shrimp in about an hour. These guys demolished all my aiptasia in my tank and have not touched anything else. The only tank in my system that has aiptasia is the area of the fuge with the lion and frog fish because obviously there are no peppermint shrimp there.

[watered_down]

ive tried calkwasser (several times), peppermint, and vinegar. the only way i was sure i got rid of the stupid things was with superglue, but that was when i had the rock out of the water and i put a good blob into the hole that the aiptasia was in. now im wondering if some of those underwater frag glues would work the same, if not better since you have to keep an eye on them before they pull themselves into nooks and crannies... worth a shot

[GaryP]

All these chemical and glue methods may work real well for the ones you can see. But...

[::pete::]

From personal experience:

I tried the berghia and they seemed to just be food for something else and at the price you have to pay for them and the amount you need per water volume Id rather feed something else!

Peppermint shrimp aren't that attractive and its a hit or miss if they will attack and destroy other things in the tank. I have had them and they left things alone and I have had them pick on bubble tips and other things.

Kalk will kill the main deal that you apply it to, but aptasia is an anemone and "splits" when stressed so guess what?

I got a copperband from alamo aquatics for 35.00. I sat there for 20 minutes until I saw it eat. It was bagged and let go in my tank I was aptasia free in less than 2 weeks. Some others here on the forums have not had luck here either, but its the best bet at the most reasonable price especially if its eating.

Mine will eat out of your hand and bullies right up to the tangs at feeding time and is in no way shy. I also grow aptasia in my overflow and add it to my tank.

[Henry]

thanks for the help and experiences posted.

[Henry]

I just picked up a CBB from finaddict. Looks healthy and was eating. After acclimating, he was released to find his place among the tangs. He had no problem doing that. After a short period of time, about 45min, he was picking at his first aptasia. I'm sooooooo happy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all continues well thru the night and the next few days.

On a side note, its probably best to not have a sailfin and CBB in the same tank if the sailfin is already established.

also FA had another smaller one that was eating.

[Thunderkat]

I had a copper banded butterfly for 4 months. I woke up one morning and found it dead, I never figured out why it died but after it died the aiptasia came back. If it lives you have a pretty good aiptasia clearer on your hands though!

[GaryP]

All it takes is for one cell of an aiptasia to survive predation for it to come back. Therefore, to really control it you need a long term strategy, not just a quick fix method. The same applies to the chemical methods.

I'm happy with my CBB and will probably always have one in my tanks. I currently have one in both my tanks. They may not get 100% of the aiptasa but they do keep it under control. I don't see any aiptasia in either of my tanks. There may be a few tucked away in some recess that I can't see, but out of sight is out of mind IMO.

I'm not recommending everyone with aiptasia run out and buy a CBB. They are a challenging fish to get to feed and keep alive. I have seemed to figure it out and they are both doing well. They are definitely a lot more work then most fish. I have one that needs to be fed at night or early AM before/after the other fish are asleep and cleaning up mussel shells is just another task I have added to my weekly clean up duties.

[Henry]

Gary where are you getting your mussels from?

[hobogato]

i think he gets em at heb.

[Thunderkat]

When I had my CBB I used to get mussels from the HEB on Austin Hwy/Harry Wurzbach.

[GaryP]

I get mine at the HEB at Wurzbach & I-10. I think most of the super HEBs that have a fresh fish dept. have them.

I keep the live ones in the frig and check them twice a day for dead ones. I thow the dead ones into a zip lock bag in the freezer and use them after the live ones are used up. When the shell opens they are dead.

I have found it best to feed them a mussel before/after the lights are on. CBB most aggressively feed around dawn & dusk. It can take a while to get them to feed on frozen stuff. They're not very good at competing for food with other fish in the open water. They prefer to pick stuff off of the substrate. That's where the mussels come in. Another way is to smash blood worms into a dead open brain skeleton and let them pick at it. Getting them to eat is definitely the biggest challenge. I know CB had them eating, but feeding in a busy community tank is different than in a lightly stocked quarantine tank. One of mine will sit there waiting for food to hit the bottom. The pigs above him don't let much pass by them.

[NaCl_H2O]

After seeing Gary feed muscles and receiving a little training, I have tried this too. The CBBs definitely love the muscles, but the other fish (Tangs mostly) haven't yet developed a taste for them, must be like beer to them :lol

One of the challenges I have that Gary doesn't have: I have two ENORMOUS Sally Lightfoot crabs in each of my large tanks. Sally's REALLY like muscles ;) , and they can dart out from under a rock, Tuck a muscle shell that's half their size underneath them, and dart back under the rock in about 0.00000000001 seconds - You can almost hear the CBB saying "Whoa, what was that" :w00t

[GaryP]

Most of my fish chow down on the mussels. That's one reason I feed them early/late when the other fish aren't as active. I have noticed that some of the fish have figured this out and seem to be willing to work the late & early shift with the CBB. While my CBB feed a lot more aggressively when I give them a mussel then when I feed frozen, that can still get pushed out of the way by a pig like my foxface. Originally I just opened the mussel and left the shells attached by the connective tissue. Now I go ahead and pull them apart so that each shell is its own feeding station. That helps spread the fish out.

I don't have sally light foots, but my big ole brittle star will claim a mussel in nothing flat. Again, pulling the shells apart helps. It will only get half of it. I will also drop the mussel on the opposite side of the tank from where he is. If you want to see a brittle star cover 4 ft. in nothing flat, just drop a mussel in there.

[Thunderkat]

Believe it or not but my cleaner wrasse loved the muscles too, it would bite on the clam and spin to take pieces off. Talk about a vicious little fish :lol

[GaryP]

My foxfaces, wrasses, tangs, CBB, blennies, gobies, & clowns all eat them.

I think San Francisco Bay produces frozen mussels in a bubble pack. I've thought about trying them but can't figure out how to keep them on the bottom where the CBB will eat them. I've seen them at Fishy Business but not at any of the other LFS.

I have also fed little neck clams as well. They are harder to open and cost a lot more so its usually only when HEB is out of mussels. MY HEB will give me a call when fresh mussels come in if they are out of stock.

[Instar]

I thow the dead ones into a zip lock bag in the freezer and use them after the live ones are used up. When the shell opens they are dead.

This will eventually kill your CBB same as it would you. Fresh live, fresh live frozen, fit for human consumption and all will be well so long as they are fed enough. Life expectancy in the wild is several decades. In the aquarium hobby, in a tank, less than 6 months. The primary issue is in nutrition and with the trend recommended by the published "experts" in the local news paper and various on-lines, feeding a couple times a week is enough. This is completely wrong and will definitely not work with a CBB.

Remember when MAAST recommends CBB's that people read this here and all the hoopla about them eating aiptasia and then go out and buy one to eat giant aiptasia out of their 20 gallon tank. It won't eat giant ones (or embedded ones, ones down under or in cracks or between coral colonies that have grown large and laced together either) and a 20 is not enough to support the necessary food consumption. The only reason I mention all this is that there are far more people who fail with CBB's than succeed. The death rate is about 98% in captured CBB's and there is a serious decline of them in the wild. Overall its a difficult fish to keep until fully accustomed to captivity and captive diets and is better left for the experts with large systems.

[NaCl_H2O]

Larry makes VERY valid points. A CBB is not a cure all, in fact it is usually just another dead fish! I have tried many CBBs in my life in various tanks - 55g, 125g, 200g system, and finally in my multi-tank combined 700g system. In all cases except the last, all I got was a very small morsel of fish to eat for my money! And the sadness that I killed a beatuful fish.

A CBB is an effective controler of Aptasia that they can reach, and ONLY if the tank provides compatible tank mates, prestine water parameters, and appropriate feeding suppliments when the Aptasia quantity (they can reach) diminishes. Currently my CBBs have been happy & healthy for about 3-4 months ... only time wil tell if they can survive beyond 6mo or so.

CBBs are not a cure all! I would expect a well established 200g system is probably about the minimum - is that about right Larry?

[Instar]

CBBs are not a cure all! I would expect a well established 200g system is probably about the minimum - is that about right Larry?

To say a 200 is about the minimum would be a slight exaggeration but established in regard to water quality - yes. There are lots of caviots to getting things right with a CBB. If its put into a pack of wild or strong and established fish, it can cause the CBB to never feed normally as in Gary's case. That makes for a ton of work and expense to keep it alive. If you have two systems, that would be the greatest advantage. You can give it a nice large home by itself to heal its injured snout and get accustomed to you and frozen food and life in a tank. Most of the time they are extremely difficult to get started to eat on frozen foods and in this case having food in the water for them to look at is necessary. If its all taken by pigs that have been in the tank for a while, that stacks the deck seriously against the CBB. In a peaceful tank, they tame very nicely and will eat from your hand if they are not bullied or out raced to the food and will quickly become your favored fish. Once in great shape, then maybe they can compete in the main system, so long as there is plenty of space for everyone both day AND night. CBB's like many fish, like to find a cave sometimes that they can call their own. They need a lot of food top keep from emaciation, so a large tank with refugium and skimmer are your best bet. It could very well be around 200 gallons by the time you add it all together. There is always someone with an exception to the size issue, but those are very experienced reefers that also have a lot invested in equipment.

[don-n-sa]

Great Info Larry!

[GaryP]

CBBs are not a cure all! I would expect a well established 200g system is probably about the minimum - is that about right Larry?

I have had two CBB that have done very well in my two systems. One is a 75 gal with sump that is a total capacity of around 100 gal. I got that fish from another MAASTARD and it was eating frozen when I got it is the easiest to care for of the two fish. This fish will feed in open water. This tank does not have as much flow and I feed in an area that has the least flow. It will tank bloodworms, brine, and seems to especially like mysids although it has to work hard to eat a big one.

The other one was purchased from a local LFS. It has taken a year to get it to start eating frozen but I feel its just a supplement to the mussels and other stuff it eats in the tank. Its in a 125 with a sump and refugium. Total capacity is around 180 gal. This tank has a very healthy grammarus shrimp population and I am sure he probably hunts those at night. As I said in my earlier post, its a shy eater when I feed frozen food.

CBB are not naturally open water feeders. They like to pick things off the rock and sand. It will wait until stuff settles to the bottom before feeding. With the flow in this tank and the other aggressive eaters in there, not a lot get to the bottom for him to feed on. CBB will not aggressively chase food in strong currents like tangs and wrasses will do. It seems like the food has to fall in front of its face for it to feed, so if shutting off flow during feeding time is an option you may want to do that. Another option may to put a small amount of food on the bottom for it to feed on with a turkey baster while distracting the other fish with something to chase in the flow. Also as I mentioned before, Instar turned me onto the idea of mashing bloodworms into an open brain skeleton for them to pick at. It seems as if feather dusters are a part of their natural diet. This may replicate that sort of food. Don't expect to have any feather dusters in your tank with a CBB. That includes things like Christmas Tree corals too, although Mikey Boy's CBB hasn't seemed to touch his.

Overall, I would agree that CBB can be a very difficult and trying fish to keep alive. Instar has helped me a lot in finally keeping mine alive. I went through 2 of them before I was able to keep my 2 current one's alive. I think we need to get him to do a presentation on butterflies at an upcoming meeting, with an emphasis on CBB. Getting them to feed is the key. The one I have in the 75 was never a problem because it came from another successful tank. I am starting to see a lot of success with the one I have in the 125. I plan on adding a different species of butterfly (long nose?) to that tank after I finish my upgrade to the 180.

[Instar]

BTW, GaryP's are the fattest healthiest CBB's I've seen. And like I said, there is always an experienced reefer with a lot in equipment that can provide an example of total gallons with all the refugium, sump, skimmer, overflow and tank thats less in gallons. But more is better in this case because of the total weight per ounze of body weight in food they need to consume. Its high protein food too, such as mussels, clams, mysis, ocean plankton, sandbed worms. It takes a serious system and water changes for that to work in the long run.

Also, the CBB, once tamed and acclimated to life in the tank and frozen food will not know its not a tang. It will chase food and compete with all the others just the same, current or no current. Mine are pigs and are the first fish to come to my hand for food. The others all hang back. In case someone doesn't want to tame one, please leave it in the ocean then. It has to be tamed to live a long healthy happy life in your reef. Things are different in there as is the availablility and time of availability of the food.

Yes, they will get a few pods and bristle worms now and then from the rocks and sand but not enough to sustain them in your tank. You can tell when they get a Gammarus shrimp cause its hard to crunch (some of those even get away after they are caught) and a live little bristle worm will make them shake their snout like they just ate a good hot pepper and can't wait for another one. But that all depends on them recovering from handling and shipping first and starting to eat. They can't eat that or smaller aiptasia until their snout is healed from handling, stress and salinity shock. As always, best as one of the first fish in the tank with tangs being the last addition to the tank. Some where along the line this seems to have been forgotten about in the stages of planning the reef it seems?

[Instar]

One more note; your CBB will benefit highly from having a pair of cleaner shrimp in the tank if you are one of the people able to keep those.

[GaryP]

One of mine hangs out in the same cave as a fire shrimp that I think is probably cleaning him. I never see him on the other end of the tank with the cleaner shrimp.