LFS that quarantines all livestock: (Poll)

[lachrimae]

Hello everyone & happy new year!

I've read in other forums about LFS in other states that quarantine all fish before selling any of them in order to get rid of ick etc... The fish cost more but the concept is that fewer people will quit the hobby due to fish that die from disease or lack of enough acclimation time.

Do you know if there is an LFS in the region that does this? I would certainly be willing to pay quite a bit more for a fish that was "guaranteed" to be ick free and that I could put straight into my tank instead of quarantining on my own... I'm throwing in a poll to see who else would support an LFS like that.

I'm going to start asking LFS's whether or not they quarantine fish and, if not, why. I'm guessing that cost will probably be the main reason.

A lot of people complain about the way that PetCo treats their fish and I agree from what I've heard but I have yet to see an LFS that is much better, if at all. If you know of one, please PM the name to me.

Be safe tonight!

Mark

[Dozer]

We have a fellow MAAST member named Richard who does this routinely at his store (CB Pets). It isn't very close to Leander, but might be worth the the drive if you feel strongly about such practices.

As far as LFS's that are better than PetCo in terms of their treatment of livestock, boy, where do I begin! I would say MOST of them are, but off the top of my head, in the Austin area, I really like River City Aquatics (Carlos the owner is a great guy), Aquatek (again, great owners) and Austin Aquarium (don't know the ownership but the store is real good). I don't tend to buy fish very often, and I will leave it up to you to go to these stores and ultimately judge for yourself- plus get feedback from others on this board about them. But I will say all three are light years ahead of a PetCo for fish (especially saltwater). Doesn't mean they are perfect, but much better than the huge chain pet store imho.

[chrismikea]

i know finaddict will do it if you ask them. we have tons of people that leave there fins in the QT for weeks before they take them home

[lachrimae]

Thanks for the info on CB Pets!

I'd certainly be willing to make the drive to support an LFS that clearly cares about it's livestock.

I believe that many more fish would survive if this was a common practice.
When a fish makes the long trip from being caught, to the distributor, to the LFS and then to consumer it has to adjust to different water parameters at least 3 times, often within a matter of days. Combine this with the stress of the trip & it can be deadly or can at least weaken their immune system. By quarantining at the LFS we could eliminate Ick, especially for the majority of newbies that don't ever quarantine on their own, and give the fish some time to adjust to it's 2nd water environment before making the trip to their final home.

Thanks for the list of Austin LFS's, I am quite familiar with each of them and none (to my knowledge) have a required quarantine period. Perhaps this is "OK" because everyone else is doing the same but I am not of that mindset. It is plainly irresponsible and uncaring to sell ick ridden fish to someone that won't quarantine or to pull a fish from a tank that just arrived hours before. I guess it goes without saying that I feel rather passionate about this :)
I concur that each of the LFS's on your list care for their livestock more than the typical PetCo does but that does not mean that their practices are therefore good enough. Care > Petco ≠ OK

Best case of course would be a direct shipment from the distributor or breeder to the consumer. This is often not possible but sometimes it is possible to get a fish from the LFS when it's still in it's original shipping bag & immediately bring it home to quarantine. It would be a good thing for the LFS to encourage this practice as well when possible as long as the trip home is not too long.

I'll jump down from the soap box for now.

If any LFS owner/employee could speak to the costs that would be involved in a forced 5 week quarantine for all livestock, I'd be interested in hearing the details. If this practice would put the LFS out of business then I suppose it wouldn' be viable. On the other hand, if the fish can't be treated in the best possible manner, perhaps they shouldn't be sold.

Mark

[Dozer]

To be honest I think it's just the opposite. I think local stores would make more money if more people wanted to buy fish and pick them up as soon as they arrived at the store- still in the shipping bag. Think about it, the LFS would not have to find tank space for it, float and acclimate it, and deal with the fairly large death rate percentage that occurs with livestock shipping. I think that most shoppers just don't have any interest in this. They want to see something on display and then buy it.

Btw, I have asked some local fish stores if they would be willing to quarantine new fish for me for a fee and each one said yes. Have you asked any of them, and offered to pay for the storage? Also, I have bought fish from at least one of the stores I mentioned and asked if I could pick it up right when it arrived and take it home- as you described above. The owner was more than happy to do it and it worked out great for both of us. You never know until you ask these stores. Most of your average customers would probably not have interest in the things you're talking about so the stores won't advertise it.

I can't say I feel as strongly as you do one way or the other on this subject- we all have different hot-button issues I guess. I'm also not here to defend the local fish stores, I've seen good and bad things with all of them, and it's not my place or desire to speak for them. All that I will say is that if you get a good feeling at one or more of the stores you might want to ask if they will do some of the things you're wanting. You might be pleasantly surprised! :)

Oops, forgot to mention one more thing. I agree with some of what you're saying, but I disagree about eliminating ick. But that's a whole separate discussion for a whole other time :D .

[Back-Syphon]

I guess if what your really concerned about is the health and well being of the fish then we should just leave them in the ocean?

[Richard]

We have a fellow MAAST member named Richard who does this routinely at his store (CB Pets).


Actually I have to correct you on that. I have never and will never "guarantee" fish to be free of ick or any other parasites for that matter. I would be happy to offer that guarantee if you first allow me to kill the fish and carefully examine it under a microscope. You would have to pay for the fish first though ;) .

Seriously, it simply isn't possible to honestly offer such a guarantee.

As far as the cost of qt'ing all livestock to the extent you are talking about. Well let's just say you need to add some more buttons to the poll.

[lachrimae]

Dozer: I respect your stance. It is good to know that some LFS's are willing to do this although I don't personally mind qt'ing on my own. My main point is that this should be done for the sake of fish that go home with the vast majority of buyers who don't quarantine (people who probably don't post here & probably don't know the difference between nitrite & nitrate). Then again, they probably wouldn't be willing to pay the higher prices because they simply wouldn't care or know enough to care about why there was a pre-quarantine period.

Back-Syphon: You could be right. Though reefing isn't going away anytime soon so it doesn't hurt to try & make things better. Or?

Richard: Thanks for your response. So it sounds like quadruple the price would be more in the ball park? I agree with the lack of Ick guarantee and know it wouldn't be possible. I was thinking of something more along the lines of simply stating that they'd gone through a 5 week hypo-salinity period and should therefore be of less risk (buyer beware). I can't say that hypo-salinity is probably very good on a fish anyway so it's probably a catch 22. I'm talking myself in circles and proving Back-Syphon correct :)
Seriously though, I would entertain the thought of running a fish store if there weren't already 15 of them in/near Austin but I'd have to confront some ethical questions first. Is it OK to sell a fish that just finished a long journey and was so recently placed into a tank of different water? Is it OK to sell an icky fish to an apparent newbie? I guess it's fair to ask whether or not it's OK to even ship a fish. I'm no PETA type but I do have some concerns. If I do find a place that follows a QT procedure for all fish I'd be a loyal customer. Four times the price? Not so sure...

Mark

[Dozer]

We have a fellow MAAST member named Richard who does this routinely at his store (CB Pets).


Actually I have to correct you on that. I have never and will never "guarantee" fish to be free of ick or any other parasites for that matter. I would be happy to offer that guarantee if you first allow me to kill the fish and carefully examine it under a microscope. You would have to pay for the fish first though ;) .

Seriously, it simply isn't possible to honestly offer such a guarantee.

As far as the cost of qt'ing all livestock to the extent you are talking about. Well let's just say you need to add some more buttons to the poll.

Richard- Unless I totally misread I think he was just asking about quarantining. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone you offer ick guarantees :D .

edit- I just read again and you're right, I missed some of what he said. Let me clarify. Richard's store, and some others as well, will quarantine fish when you buy from them if you offer to pay for such a service. However, the second part where you mention a guarantee of being ick-free is not something that any store I have ever heard of has ever offered. Sorry for the confusion and sorry to Richard for not reading carefully there. That's what I get for being online that late >_<

[Jenn]

Every fish I have purchased from Richard (CB Pets) has been healthy and long-lived. Definitely worth your drive.

[GaryP]

One thing I would add is that CB not only quaratines, but actually treats the fish in quarantine for parasites. This includes FW dips as well as a very precise copper treatment. In addition, they don't sell fish that aren't eating.

There are some fish that I routinely recommend only be purchased from CB. One that comes to mind in particular are copper band butterflies.

[lachrimae]

This is good feedback about CB. I'd certainly make the drive to purchase from an LFS that is going the extra mile.
It's only 78 miles... I'll be making a trip out there soon I'm sure.