Pump question

[ou812pezz]

I need to install a CLS on a 100 gal tank from one side. I'm curious to what size pump I will need and what size pipe I should use. It will have to push water from the floor to a SCWD and then the length of my tank. From the ground to the SCWD is 4.5ft and from that to the other end of the tank is 5.5ft. I'm thinking a MAG12 and the LFS recomended it as well(he really wasn't sure nor was the other guy there). The SCWD I've read cuts the flow by 40%(not sure if that's accurate). I thought to use 3/4" on the intake and 1/2" on the return. The return will have 4 exits(two on each side). The return nozzles are 3/4"flex pipe. Each nozzle will have gate valve as will the return line before the SCWD. Any thoughts?

[Ed]

Not sure I understand yet. Trying to picture it. A diagram would help alot. Are you planning to split the two returns from the SCWD to four outlets? Doesn't the SCWD use 3/4" tubing on all three sides? How many gate valves?

[ou812pezz]

sorry, i can't get the image to show. I'm wanting to run a reducer out of both sides of the SCWD. This way I can go from 3/4 to 1/2" pipe. Each side will have two outlets, each with gate valves. One will be mid tank and the other at the end.Here's a link to a pic of my tank.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/6813/cat/500/ppuser/1760
ok here's a link to a basic diagram
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/7042/cat/500/ppuser/1760
someday I'll learn to up load here.
I'm just interested in what size pump and if the 1/2" pipe will work better than the 3/4"pipe when pushing water the distance plus the resistance of the SCWD. There are no 90degree elbows just two 45s for each corner. Oh yes and the tees in both outlet lines. I'm more concerned with getting maxim flow ou the ends.

[Ram_Puppy]

this is just me, but personally I think using a Mag drive for a closed loop application on that size of tank is getting highly ineficient.

You won't get your 'wave maker' functions, but a better method of doing it (if slightly more expensive) would be to use a Reeflo Dart, or a slightly smaller Panworld pump perhaps, and plumb a true closed loop. Just make sure none of the returns are hitting your corals, and aim the returns at each other so they create turbulence.

or if you want to spend the $$$ get a SQUIRT or a true oceans motions.

I know that is probably hemoraghing money you don't want to spend. If your going to use something like a Mag though, then forgo the closed loop and use a tunze streamer.

[ou812pezz]

I'm on a budget. I already have the SCWD. It's max volume output is 1400gph. I'm using one on my sump return on the left side of the tank with a Quiet one 4000 pushing it. I get flow halfway through the tank. I want to do a CLS to push halfway or more from the otherside and in reverse directions in the middle. I was originally going to use a Little giant MDQ-SC that was given to me but it's toast.

[Ram_Puppy]

marine Depot:

Mag 12 - 1200 GPH (with no head pressure (if plumbing externally (sorry can't see your diagram) 97$

Tunze Streamer - 1585 GPH - (no head pressure to account for) 137.00

the Tunze is 30 bucks more but more powerful and no pipes to hide (course there is the Tunze to hide!)

Otherwise, i think a mag12 is nice. just trying to throw out other options. I understand budgets, It's taken me 3 years to build the tank I am working up now.

[ou812pezz]

"It's taken me 3 years to build the tank I am working up now." I hear that, I've been working on this project for two years. thanks for the responce ram puppy.

[Ed]

In my experience, Mag pumps do not handle head pressure well. Have you considered using only the two returns from the SCWD without any valves? IMO, you will get better flow without the valves and with only two 3/4" flex hoses coming off the SCWD. Maybe and eductor on the end would help? The Tunze mentioned is also a good option. Seio pumps might be an option as well. HTH.

[Dozer]

I have a Sequence Dart pump I may be selling that would work great for you. Since it's used it would obviously be at a discount. Let me know if you might be interested...

[GaryP]

Ed, there should be no head pressure on a closed loop. You are gaining head pressure going down hill and then losing it again when you go back uphill. The only pressure loss should be for friction. Am I missing something here? I'd be the first to admit I am not a plumbing guru, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[brewercm]

There will be the head pressure from the SQWD though and I thought they actually created quite a bit, plus any angles due to the amount of outputs he's putting onto the system from the sound of it.

[GaryP]

There will be the head pressure from the SQWD though and I thought they actually created quite a bit, plus any angles due to the amount of outputs he's putting onto the system from the sound of it.

The angles is the frictional loss I was talking about. Each 90 is the equivalent of 1 ft. of head pressure. That's why I like using tygon tubing instead of PVC. A gentle curve is better than a 90 degree elbow.

[LoneStar]

but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


:lol

So would a 45 degree bend equivalate to a .5 ft loss of head pressure? If your not sure, sleep on it at a Holiday Inn and get back to me. :)

[brewercm]

Ahhh, I thought you were just talking about standard frictional loss from running through a pipe. Very minimal I'm sure until years and years of use.

[brewercm]

So would a 45 degree bend equivalate to a .5 ft loss of head pressure?

So, are we talking about a 45 short or 45 long bend? It makes a difference. :P

[GaryP]

The inside of pipe tends to develop a film on it. This film is usually composed of bacteria and scale. It has a tendency to create more frction because its "rougher" then the pipe itself and causes turbulent rather then laminar flow near the pipe surfaces. This film develops rather quickly on new pipe or hose. The technical term for it is a "biofilm."

[jroescher]

The larger the pipe and the less bends, angles and turns the better the flow. Reducing the pipe to 1/2" will only slow the flow down more. You want to go with larger size pipe and reduce it only at the last point that you can.

This may help:
http://www.dolphinpumps.com/plumbing.htm

More than you could ever want to know about plumbing:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/featurejp.htm

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[ou812pezz]

Thanks for the pipe answer. Each bend will be created with two 45 degree elbows. The SCWD has a PSI and volume restriction, so I can't use most large pumps(it causes the SCWD to flutter and not work right). I don't need much volume from the side exits, just enough to create a small amount of turbulence. Most of the volume will exit the end and I only need it to push a volume of water 2.5 ft. The whole set up will draw water down a 3/4" pipe to the pump. The pump will return it 4.5' to the SCWD. The flow will be diverted to one side(5.5') where it will exit a 3/4" flex pipe in the middle(very little volume) and the rest out the end flex pipe.

[LoneStar]

So would a 45 degree bend equivalate to a .5 ft loss of head pressure?

So, are we talking about a 45 short or 45 long bend? It makes a difference. :P

Yeah the curvature of the the bend always is a variable. It makes no difference to me much, I'm a Tunze Stream fan anyway!! 8)