PhosBan Reactor

[NaCl_H2O]

Ok, so Paletta convinced me to do a few things differently and adding a PhosBan (or whatever) reactor is one of those things. Some suggestions please:

- The TLF PhosBan reactor says it is for 150g, obviously I have a tad more than that. Should I just start with this and see how it goes, or are their larger models available.
- Is TLf the best reactor, or Kent, or ...?
- What's the best media, PhosBan or others?
- What size pump are folks using to drive these reactors? MAG2??

Thanks!

[GaryP]

Let the post-Paletta analysis and re-analysis begin!

I think there are a few heads spinning right now.

As Mike said, they are all based on the same compound, Iron Oxide Hydroxide. It also has the added benefit of removing heavy metals. That's its primary use, for removing nasty stuff like arsenic from drinking water.

As usual, I'm totally clueless on the equipment. We need to see about sourcing and putting together a group order for the meta phosphate test kits. Richard and Mark may be able to hook us up on that. I think they may have a supplier for them. Guys?

[vic318]

I use a few of the TLF reactors for Carbon, Phosban, and Purigen. I have about 200g of total water volume and run 250grams of TLF phosban media. I have mine feeding off of the return pump. If you have a high amount of phosphates the media will exhaust very rapidly but once they are in check the media will last much longer. There are a few other reactors on the market but most are about the same capacity as the TLF reactor. Since you have a large volume of water you might be better off having one built to suit your needs.

[robert81]

Could'nt pete make one of these (phosphate reactors) ? For you that have bigger tanks, Paletta said you could run several of the cheaper ones in seires.

[ReefOne]

Kent has some that are only 39 dollars. Acrylic materials would cost more than that so it's all around a best bet. I was going to build on but i'm just going to buy a Kent. Plus it's a twist off top, pretty convenient. I remember Mike saying to use eco-phos or something. I have it in my little notebook that I took notes in.

[robert81]

What are they rated for? What size pump is needed?

[robert81]

I also heard that you can run carbon in them too.

[ReefOne]

they are rated for 150 gallon tanks, if you have a bigger tank then you can piggy back them. Doesnt come with a pump though and i'm not to sure what size pump is needed.

[vic318]

Dr. Foster & Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11586&N=2004+113427) has the TLF reactors on sale for $32.99. "Maximum recommended flow rate: 80 gph for 150 grams of PhosBan, 90 gph for 200 grams."

[LoneStar]

I have two TLF phosban reactors linked together. One is for carbon and the other is for phosban. I used a old maxijet 1200 for the pump. The TLF reactors come with a ball valve to adjust the flow of water through them. You do not want too much flow through the reactor containing phosban because if there is too much, it will 'grind' the media into a dust and eventually escape into your sump. You just want a nice tumbling effect for the media in the phosban reactor. One trick I did was to have the carbon reactor last to catch any small phosban particles that may have escaped the other reactor.

I have not used the Kent brand reactors before but the TLF seem to work great. The newer models have a screw on lid instead the nylon bolts and wing nuts.

[seamonkey2]

I also have 2 phosban reactors link together running of a mxj 900 and an other reactor full of carbon running of a mxj 1200

I have the same set up on my sea horse tank, I think it works great

Jose

[tgray]

Couldn't you just use a pvc tube with carbon and whatever phosphate removal agent you use mixed toghether to prevent clumping (as per GaryP)? Would be even more cost effective than the inexpensive reactors. Pinche here even thought about using gravity flow from tank to sump to avoid using another pump.

[rocketeer]

This is how mine is hooked up with no additional pump. I have a little extra pressure at this point in my plumbing because I regulate my tank flow with a large valve downstream.

Before somebody comments about some of the water going through the reactor twice, the flow is so small compared to the return flow that it's negligible in my opinion. So it's cleaner... No pump!

[leaffish75]

I used an old sand filter.

[seamonkey2]

hmmm..looks like another project for me, gravity feed...I love gravity..

thanks Rocketeer!!!, now I have to go home early to work on it, geee with this many people giving me ideas, I'll never stop messing around with my tank :wacko :wacko

Jose

[cbianco]

geee with this many people giving me ideas, I'll never stop messing around with my tank :wacko :wacko

Jose

[sarcastic voice] Join the club... Oh wait you already have! :lol [/end sarcastic voice]

Once you have the "bug" it is impossible to be cured. :)

Christopher

[watered_down]

on a similar topic... phos eliminator pads... can i put one in a canister filter? if so is it possible to cut it down without adverse side effects? im not really familiar with these... oh and what about coralline algae does this slow down their growth, ive never heard it mentioned during discussions of phos removal will it prohibit its growth? too many questions

sorry i didnt mean to highjack :blush

[GaryP]

Couldn't you just use a pvc tube with carbon and whatever phosphate removal agent you use mixed toghether to prevent clumping (as per GaryP)? Would be even more cost effective than the inexpensive reactors. Pinche here even thought about using gravity flow from tank to sump to avoid using another pump.

That's basically what I am doing now, excpet I use an old aquaclear pump on it. Its submerged in my sump.

[GaryP]

on a similar topic... phos eliminator pads... can i put one in a canister filter? if so is it possible to cut it down without adverse side effects? im not really familiar with these... oh and what about coralline algae does this slow down their growth, ive never heard it mentioned during discussions of phos removal will it prohibit its growth? too many questions

Paletta talked about this. He said that you never want your phosphate to be zero, but that is hardly possible unless you over use phosphate absorber. Phosphate is constantly being added to the tank in the form of food. Most foods contain around 1% phosphate. No scrubber is 100% efficient.

Before someone jumps up and says that they never get anything but o ppm on their phosphate tests, remember that only test for one form of phosphate (ortho). The majority of the phosphate exists as organo-phosphate (meta). Ortho phosphate is quickly used up in a tank and you may never see it in a test. If you do get a positive result, then chances are you have a really bad algae problem. The green stuff growing all over the place is a better test then any kits you can use in my opinion. There is a test kit for meta phosphate, but it may be a little over the technical capabilites of the average hobbyist.

[LoneStar]

Just be carefull on the flow rate if using phosban in a gravity feed setup. You do not want too much flow going through the reactor. This would aggitate the small granuals too much and grind them into a dust that would spread into your tank/sump.

[GaryP]

I wasn't referring to a fluidized bed reactor. Mine is a packed bed reactor with no movement of the granules. As Paletta mentioned, the problem with these is channeling. The spaces between granules become blocked by calcium phosphate and as a result the majority of the media doesn't get exposed to water flow. I change the media out regularly to prevent a buildup of calcium that blocks flow. I'm sure the media isn't anywhere near exhausted when I change it out but its easier then chiseling it out.

BTW, I was using Phosguard in this application due to the relative cost compared to Phosban. The disadvantage of regular use of a silicate based product like Phosguard is that you are going to end up with a diatom bloom like I now have. I rationalized this as being better then a hair algae bloom, but I'm at the point now that I need to make a change. I think there may be a lower cost Iron based product similar to Phosban coming out on the market soon.

[gjuarez]

Does anybody have any experince with rowaphos or phoszorb? How would you rate those against phosban?

[robert81]

Jsut bought my reactor from Aquatic Warehouse.Going to use phosban for now.

[rocketeer]

Here's an interesting article concerning phosban and rowaphos

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm

Jack

[gjuarez]

Cool article man. Phosguard is an aluminum oxide based while phosban and rowaphos are iron oxide based. According to hte article, its better to go the iron oxide based route.

[watered_down]

on a similar topic... phos eliminator pads... can i put one in a canister filter? if so is it possible to cut it down without adverse side effects? im not really familiar with these... oh and what about coralline algae does this slow down their growth, ive never heard it mentioned during discussions of phos removal will it prohibit its growth? too many questions

Paletta talked about this. He said that you never want your phosphate to be zero, but that is hardly possible unless you over use phosphate absorber. Phosphate is constantly being added to the tank in the form of food. Most foods contain around 1% phosphate. No scrubber is 100% efficient.

Before someone jumps up and says that they never get anything but o ppm on their phosphate tests, remember that only test for one form of phosphate (ortho). The majority of the phosphate exists as organo-phosphate (meta). Ortho phosphate is quickly used up in a tank and you may never see it in a test. If you do get a positive result, then chances are you have a really bad algae problem. The green stuff growing all over the place is a better test then any kits you can use in my opinion. There is a test kit for meta phosphate, but it may be a little over the technical capabilites of the average hobbyist.

thanks gary!

[seamonkey2]

gravity feed works great, I also put the chiller and refugium in gravity feed, all with ball valve, to regulate the flow, and eliminated 3 pumps.

only problem, is if it looses suction, you have siphon again, but small price to pay, for pump free( no electricity) items

Jose

[Ram_Puppy]

figured you guys might want some first hand feeback on this. Keep in mind, I have been TOTALLY abusing my tank. Back in january of last year, one of my pumps went bad and overheated my tank, a crash ensued, hair algae exploded, and life in the 30 gallon hex sucked for its inhabitants.

so until the cube would come on line I put a 110 gallon tank up that was going to be for my wifes goldfish. that tank has been ignored, abused, and generally treated in the most rotten fashion by me, severe evaporation, heavy feeding, few water changes, and general apathy on my part. (to much time spent at work, not enough time at home to take care of it, and a lack of will to invest in a tank that is only 'temporary'. I am flat out convinced the only reason ANYTHING in that tank has lived is because I decided to let the aiptasia that I was fighting (they got a foothold when the tank crashed) just take the tank over... there are litterally THOUSANDS of them in the tank, and they do a great job at filtering the water.

(If your wondering why I am doing this, 1) apathy 2) Larry is going to trade me for some bhergia! :) so I gotta make it worth his while! :) )

anyhow, when i put the 110 up, I installed a TLF phosban reactor on it and hooked a Mag4 up to it but had to ratchet it WAY back on flow. flow through a phosban reactor should be so slow the top of it media just barely percolates, like pebbles dancing when a train comes by, tumbling is bad, as mentioned before it grinds the stuf up into dust.

Now, we know that I wasn't changing water and I was being a bad daddy, but over the next month the hair algae slowly droppe dback and went away, until finally, it was almost all gone. I totally attribute this to the low phosphates in the water column.

Now, I did not go out of my way to change the phosban when it ran out, and sure enough, 6 months later when it had reached saturation, BAM, hair algae came back with a vengance.

I am only happy to say that this chapter in my life is almost done. I am moving all the furniture out of the way for the new tank to go in tomorrow, and plumbing will begin this week. :)

[pilot_bell777]

So Gary....any special way you built yours?????