Help - White Out

[JULZ]

I have a 125 with a fuge and sump. Monday morning when I woke up the water was white. This is not due to a sand storm however there is very small particles all over, it almost looks like smoke. All parameters are good, Phosphates was a little high .1. All my livestock appear to be fine and could not identify any corals that didn't appear normal, except for a sponge and the tips on a few stems appear to have lost color, although I think it has been that way for sometime. This conditions is not getting better and I'm beginning to worry. Did a 30 gal water change this evening and it didn't seem to help at all. Anyone know what might be going on??

[Reef69]

Whats your Ca. and Alk. at?

[NaCl_H2O]

Sounds like carbonate precipitation - agree with the above, what's your Ca level?

What salt mix are you using, and are you dosing any additives?

Didn;t notice, what's the tank size, any sump, etc.??

[Richard]

It sounds like to carbonate precipitation to me also. The other possiblity is a bacterial bloom caused by overfeeding, dead livestock, or something bad happening to your biological filtration.

For precipitation you'll need to do large water changes to correct things.

For bacterial bloom I would do another large water change and add some nitrifying bacteria (i.e. TLC or Biospira).

[don-n-sa]

one other possibility...is there a fuge with macro? what kind?

[JULZ]

Can't test the Ca or Alk until tomorrow. Am using oceanic salt. Have been using B-Ionic but have not been religious about it. Did a 6 gal water change on Sunday and a 30 gal change tonight. It's a 125, with a sump and fuge.

[JULZ]

The fuge is full of only Cheato but it looks good.

[NaCl_H2O]

Oceanic salt + B-Ionic could be pushing your Ca above 600 and Alk below 8-9 and creating the snow storm (precipitation). Does your rock, glass, or fuge have a light powder coating building up on it? If this is the case, you may also be building up Ca deposits on pump impellers and they could stop working. Probably not, but after it is under control through water changes, take appart one of your pumps and check for heavy Ca deposits.

I would stop using B-Ionic until you can test Ca levels regularly. I had VERY high Ca levels and low Dkh until I switched to IO salt.

[JULZ]

There maybe a small coating but nothing extreme. Will the high ca level harm my livestock?

[NaCl_H2O]

The precipitation can harm corals if it gets heavy and really starts "falling" out of the water. SOunds like yours is mostly still suspended. This can build up on pumps, etc.

Also, the real danger is the chemistry getting just right (and you are fairly close) so that the tank "crashes" and the Ca level drops rapidly as it is precipitated from the water. The sudden drop in Ca will effect SPS corals, but at the same time I think your Dkh and PH will also change quickly which is probably more harmful. GaryP is the expert here, maybe he can chime in, or send him a PM.

I would try to get to a 25% water change as quickly as possible, maybe 2-3 over the next few days.

Are you using RO water? And are you topping off with RO water?

[akm]

Im not sure about Ca but a low alkalinity can be pretty bad. The lower the alkalinity means your tank is more suceptible to pH swings. This can cause much stress and death to the livestock(as water with a pH of 5 or less is like a weak to strong acid).

[JULZ]

I am using RO/DI water.

[don-n-sa]

I have been using oceanic for two years now , and yes if you use oceanic and dose b-ionic everyday, combined with only a light to moderate calcium load then your calcium will be off the chart like mine was. Oceanic has extra calcium in it...it says it on the bag, box, bucket.

Back when I was just getting started a LFS owner recommended me to dose b-ionic and I listened. B-ionic is a great product but I did not have any SPS or clams so over time calcium was off the salifert test kit.

I have crazy combination in my tank but my over all calcium load is very low. I do a 20g water change every week which keeps my calcium between 350-400. And I dose the Part 2 bionic only twice a week which keeps my alkalinity with a good range. I like oceanic because it already has the calcium that I need. When I run out of the b-ionic I will probably start dosing kalk

[gjuarez]

IF you decide to do a 25% water change, you might want to try to use Instant Ocean salt. Its high on alk and a little lower on calcium. I would stop dosing part one and maybe dose a little part 2. Raising you alk will also bring down your calcium levels. Try to take your time doing it, a sudden fluctuation in PH could affect your corals or critters even more. So you dont have any caulerpa right? Just double checking. Also, can you post your latest test results on your parameters.

[jaded]

I wouldn't do anything until I got a good test of my levels... I dose gary's recipe every night but only after weeks of testing everyday to find out what my needs were and I still test often to see if things have changed (or I forgot to dose one night).

Test, test and test once more... its worth it!!! Salifert rules!!!

[JULZ]

Allright got the results of the Ca and Alk; dkh = 9.6 (3.43 alk), Ca=480
and checked the ph again it's 7.7-7.8 . Whacha think (Gary)?

[gjuarez]

THe Ph is a little high. I dont see a real problem with your calcium and alk. Gary chime in man.

[hobogato]

high???

[JULZ]

After taking my 5 lb. Chihuahua to the emergency vet clinic Thursday night and getting home after midnight, I did another 30 gal water change and that seemed to do the trick. Friday morning the water was all cleared up. Everything is looking great including the Chihuahua! Thanks for everyones input, another unsovled mystery.............

[hobogato]

good to hear!

[gjuarez]

Why did I mention that the PH was high, it was actually low. That's what I get for reading posts too fast. Anyways, its good to hear that you got the problem resolved. Keep us posted. A pic of your setup wouldnt hurt.

[GaryP]

OK, sorry for my absence.

Yes, you had a calcium carbonate precipitation. What I call a "blizzard."

Reason - If you use a two part additive, you must determine what your daily or weekly demand for both alkalinity and calcium is. In other words, how much does the concentration of both fall every day if I don't add anything. Ideally, you want to dose your supplement in an amount equivalent to the daily demand so that your concentrations stay as close to constant as possible. I have worked this out pretty closely and then test on weekends to see if I need to "fine tune" the concentrations. It may require a good amount of testing in the beginning to determine the daily demand and the required dosing.

Also, remember that the demand will change over time. The weekly testing tells me if it has increased or decreased and by how much. You can adjust your dosing program to accomodate for this based on the testing results.

A good rule of thumb is to never dose anything that you aren't testing for. Blindly following the directions on the label is usually a recipe for disaster.

Next, have you tested your magnesium. Magnesium is hgelpful in inhibiting calcium carbonate preipitation. It should be kept up around 1400-1500 ppm.

I'm really surprised your levels are as high as they are after the blizzard. When I have had this happen (yes it happens to the best of us) the levels fall really low and it takes some work to get them back up again. Its like an avalanche, once the precipitation starts, the levels will fall below where they would normally be stable. The calcium carbonate crystals that are suspended in solution act like a catalyst for more precipitation then is normally possible.

Your levels are fine where they are now. I would work out a dosing program to keep them where they are. You can continue to use Oceanic, but you will find that you can probably cut way back on the dosing of the calcium component of the B-Ionic product that you are using. The disadvantage to doing this is that you are going to get bigger swings on calcium concentration unless you have a very high calcium demand in your tank and are dosing the B-ionic calcium to keep up with it.

One of the problems I have with B-ionic is how they tell you to dose it. IMO a two part shouldn't be poured in. I pre-dilute mine and drip it in. If you see a milky white cloud form when you pour it in, you are precipitating and just basically wasted the product. I call this "making sand." When you pour it in, you are creating a localized area of high concentration that causes the precipitation. Most people don't have the paitence to pour it in slow enough. In addition to that, as I stated above, the precipitate that is formed can catalyze an even larger blizzard. Chances are, this may have been what happened in your case.

What to do after a blizzard. 1. Just blow the precipitate of the rock & corals. You just added to your sand bed. 2. Pull all your pumps out and clean them with vinegar. Precipitation usually starts in the pump due to the changes in pressure there and the impellor and impellor cavities will be heavily scaled up. The next time you unplug them or there is a power outage they won't restart because of the friction of the scale deposits there. Better to deal with it now then have water on the floor. If you are using a 2 part you should be going periodic cleaning of your pumps anyway. Over time they always scale up. I'm pulling all of my plumbing out today and cleaning it because I have noticed decreased flow. That's one reason I like using tygon tubing instead of a lot of PVC in my plumbing system. Its a lot easier to pull out and clean.