To all those who bought anything from Alex's PERSONAL tank

[C.Mydas]

Hey guys. This in no way is supposed to start a MAAST riot just to inform those people who bought anything from Alex's PERSONAL tank. I know he had flatworms a couple months back and after adding some of his corals they have appeared in my nano, and one other persons tank that we know of.

This in no way is a reflection on his store!!! It is just to inform you that if you bought some of his corals to check your tanks for them over the next couple of weeks and treat accordingly.

Good luck!

[oceancube]

WTF, Pls tell me your pulling my leg!!!!!!!!!! :o

[Reef69]

..Man, that sucks..If they grow in my tank from the cheato i bought, im gonna ****ing loose it.

[JeffCo]

What type of flatworms? Brown or clear?

[oceancube]

brown or clear those buggers are bad, i hate flatworms..NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[C.Mydas]

brown.... and no sadly Im not kidding

[Gator]

that sucks

[oceancube]

Well before i bought my stuff i asked alex if everything was flatworm free and he said yes, luckly i scrubed and dipped the 2 sps colony's i bought, just got finished looking for any and don't spot none, thats why i recommend to scrub and dip everything you buy because you don't know what other's have in there tanks.. maybe you got them from somewhere else.. maybe????

[C.Mydas]

you'll have to use flatworm exit to kill them 'cause nothing else does. And they are usually referred to as red not brown, but either way they suck!!!

[C.Mydas]

dipping doesn't kill 'em. Hardy little buggers. lol...sigh.

[oceancube]

hey josh, na didn't mean scrub the acro but rather the base it's on liverock, plug, i dipped it in freshwater for like a minute base that is not acro.... looked and looked and nothing sofar hopefully they were not lucky enough to get in my tank.. or ill quit!!! hate those damm things! once was at texas tropical and eves showed me a slug that would suck them up like nothing, very cool creature!!!! well let ya'll know if i spot one!!!

[LoneStar]

I dipped everything before I put it in and I have not noticed anything....

[C.Mydas]

Good. Hopefully this is isolated to a few tanks, just keep you eyes open and I would buy some Exit just in case. I just dont want it to reach plague proportions in anyones tank who doesn't know what to look for.

[LoneStar]

Thanks for the heads up though. I will watch out for them.

[lhoy]

brown or clear those buggers are bad, i hate flatworms..NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Actually, the clear ones are a totally different genus (Amphiscolops sp.) and do not cause the problems that the red (Convolutriloba sp.) cause.

FWIW.

Lee

Of course, one man's bug is another man's pest. I also keep centipedes, scorps, and Tarantulas and other people spray for them. :D

[Pacman]

Actually, the clear ones are a totally different genus (Amphiscolops sp.) and do not cause the problems that the red (Convolutriloba sp.) cause.


I was going to say, I've noticed flatworms in my tank but they've never reached anywhere near plague proportions. And even at that they all seem to be mostly confined to the refugeum. I think the fish and perhaps peppermint shrimp keep the display pretty clean.

Do these red flatworms attack SPS or are they simply opportunistic scavengers that get out of hand?

Matt

[ansonluna]

I purchased some cheato and I saw one in my fuge last night. What damage do they cause? Will that treatment kill anything else in the tank?

[Reef69]

Did you get the cheato from Alex???!!!!!

[oceancube]

man and i was gonna grab a bag of cheato myself but decided not to.... i think the scrubing and dip did the trick for me, but i always do that with any new addition! from now on im gonna do a double take on everything i buy!!!!!!!

[Reef69]

**** that. If i get infested with flatworms im taking this **** personal. Its like having an STD and not telling the person you are gonna **** , this is ridiculous.

[gjuarez]

TIm once sold me some sps frags with red bugs. He wasnt aware of them when he sold them to me but as soon as he found he contacted the people who he sold frags too and described what to do. That was nice of TIm, ALex should try to do the same. Maybe free flatworm exit will do the trick.:)

[C.Mydas]

Heres some really solid info about them and how to use the Salifert Flatworm Exit safely.

http://www.melevsreef.com/flatworms.html

Remember if you see 1, there are 10 you cant see so treat!!

[C.Mydas]

Joshua, I wish that was true but he did know he had them and he didn't treat them. Brian even offered to lend him our flatworm exit and he turned him down. And he has been on-line since this was posted and not offered up an apology or any info on how to treat them. Whats sad is we knew all this but completely forgot so we didn't fresh water dip our stuff and now we're paying for it. lol...sigh

I really didn't want to post all that info as it was given in somewhat of confidence but he hasn't stepped up to make it right so....

[carlinsa]

ok i will claim stupidity what the heck is a flatworm. is it those little red worms with white legs. i really have no idea

[C.Mydas]

Ditto, well said Joshua. Maybe this will let us finally admit we might be ready for a feedback forum on sales and trades. Maybe something postiive can come of it!

[oceancube]

lol carl....
flatworms are bad and ugly

[oceancube]

and they infest your tank badly.. not recommended

[carlinsa]

like me


bad and ugly


:)

[oceancube]

maybe he didn't know about it, everyone is getting all mad for him not to know it we'll be sorry!!!!

[C.Mydas]

Read the link I posted..oh wait Im talking to Carl...well maybe Becky can read it to you...lol

[oceancube]

okay typo, maybe he didn't know , we'll be sorry if he didn't!! sound better!!

[Reef69]

OK Reef69, he's all yours. All I have to say is this is a sad sight to see something like this happen in the local club.

Ok, say when...

[oceancube]

well i really dont know what to say till i ask him again, kinda sucks but you never know.. i dont see any at this point soi cant say he gave them to me!!!!

[bigdscobra]

I dont see any, and I got a big ball of macro from Alex and some other stuff. Melev says the clear ones are reef safe.

[bigdscobra]

LOL well hopefully if I do have some of the red ones in the tank my spotted mandrain will take care of them.

[ansonluna]

I highly doubt this was done maliciously. It kinda sucks that if he did know about them no one was told, but just buy the dang medicine and kill'em. Anyone ever heard the saying, "never look a gift horse in the mouth." Think of it this way, you got a good deal on some items and now you just need to spend a little more on medicine. Now if I got herpies or genetal warts (which are not 100% cureable) then I'd be ****ed!!!!!

[alexwolf]

hey guys, just read this for the first time.

A few months ago, i saw a few of them, but it seemed to me that they went away. I havent seen any in months, I never would have sold anything to anyone if I had known. I have some flatworm exit at the store, and if anyone has them you can have it free or charge.

cmydas, I did log on briefly today but didnt read it.

[alexwolf]

As I sent to C.Mydas in a PM, I am terribly sorry that you guys think I would do something like this on purpose. That truly hurts me. I might have made a few people mad, but I am not the type of person who would try to damage something someone has worked so hard on. It appears that most people think I would do something like this on purpose, and to them I want to say that I am so sorry that you think that I am that type of person.

Anyone who has flatworms is welcome to free meds, I only have 3 boxes so you might have to share. Also, you are more than welcome to a refund of whatever you bought, and I will be glad to help you treat your system.

Also, I never once saw a flatworm in my main tank. I saw a few brown ones in my small fuge, but thats it. I never saw them anywhere else. I just checked again, but cant find any.

Or, I will order you a free sixline wrasse. Let me know what you guys want.

[oceancube]

darn ... well said alex, i seem to be free of them, keep fingers crossed!

[C.Mydas]

Thank you for the gesture...it is the right thing to do.

[C.Mydas]

I highly doubt this was done maliciously. It kinda sucks that if he did know about them no one was told, but just buy the dang medicine and kill'em. Anyone ever heard the saying, "never look a gift horse in the mouth." Think of it this way, you got a good deal on some items and now you just need to spend a little more on medicine. Now if I got herpies or genetal warts (which are not 100% cureable) then I'd be ****ed!!!!!

yeah, Im so upset b/c I have a nano...much more dangerous to treat.

[thedude]

I have a nano as well and have treated flatworms in the past and it wasn't a big deal in the slightest. That being said, I purchased a lot of corals from Alex and didn't see any flatworms at all. I also make use of the practice of a strong lugol's dip for anything new that's being introduced into my tank, as I would recommend everyone should be doing anyway.

Saying that someone maliciously tried to give you flatworms is just absurd. I'm getting real real tired of the witchhunt philosophy this club has taken as of late.

[motohead]

wow,this is laughable.to even think alex would do something like that to folks is so stupid.what it is is a few folks want to see some more drama on here.they love it and live for it.trying to start a mass panic.funny,but sad.alex,i feel bad for you that some of these folks on here seem like they are out to get you.seems to me like you have had your more than fair share of drama on here on more than a few instances.very stupid to think that a grown adult who owns a small business would do something like that on purpose.san antonio is a mid sized town with what looks like a fair amount of reefers.who it also loks like quite a few frequent these pages.now why would a business owner do something like this to himself?some of you folks need to shift out of witchhunt mode and move on with your lives to another soap opera...............

[TexasTodd]

Well said Motohead.

But, I ALWAYS tell people of anything I've seen in my tank in recent history as a warning, just in case! I'm sure Alex will do this in the future too.

If it's the red ones, they can get unbelievably out of control. Like THOUSANDS of them and fast.

The Flat worm exit is supposedly not that dangerous to your stock, it's the poison in the flat worms released when they die.

My advice is ANYONE who got stuff from Alex's tank should do a treatment right away before they are at numbers to produce too much toxin when killed.

Alex, I do think you need to order in a bunch of FW Exit to give to anyone who purchased from your tank. It will cut in to the profits, but it is the right thing to do. I'd order it TODAY and make sure there is a box for everyone who purchased from you. I'd also get it FedEx'd in NEXT DAY.

This will "put your money where your mouth is" and I'm sure go a long ways toward mending any issues.

Please put me down for one of the boxes.

Todd

[LoneStar]

I'll take one just in case. ;)

[alexwolf]

yeah i plan to.....i did refuse Brians offer because I had some on order, but nver saw them again. I need a rough head count for people who need it. I am crossing my fingers its not nationally backordered again.

[TexasTodd]

Well Alex, you know how you sold any corals, rock, sand, and algae to.

I count about a dozen people I know of and looking at this thread.

I'd make a list. Please make sure I'm on it. :)

Todd

[::pete::]

In response to looking for them :roll its a little difficult when the buggers can be in any nook, cranny and or crevice!! Yes, I treated for them yesterday as well after I noticed them in my tank :angry It sucks and yes I did dip as well as scrub the rocks the corals were attached to before placing them in the tank. I didn't read every word in every post, but kind of did the Evelyn Wood deal. I saw "nationally back ordered" and never saw anything about treating after the product was back in stock. It is obviously and has been back in stock or it wouldn't be on the shelves. Would the lack of treatment for flatworms have something to do with a water change ... physical/manual labor? Also if they were noticed as mentioned and never treated for with the knowledge of how fast they reproduce it is an obligation to at least mention it to prospective buyers or not in fear of losing a sale!!

[LoneStar]

I'll be at the store tonight to pick up some if you got any along with returning your bucket. :blink

[GaryP]

OK FOLKS DO NOT PANIC!

Flatworms cause absolutely no damage. Most people end up doing more damage to their tanks trying to get rid of them then they do themselves. If you are going to treat with Flatworm Exit, do it now before they become established. Be aware that FE is not 100% effective and it may take repeated, high doses to get rid of them. FE is not toxic to most reef critters besides other worms, but the toxins released by dead flatworms is some nasty stuff.

I've given up on using Flatworm Exit on my tanks and am trying to use predators.

[alexwolf]

Again, I apologize to everyone who bought something. To all you who think that I intentionally left it out, youre wrong. As I stated before, I never would do something so damaging to members of this community.

[alexwolf]

Just ordered 10 more.

[ansonluna]

I understand eveyone's anger, but this was done completely wrong. The initiators of this thread should have spoken to Alex first and then had him come on here and say "hey guys you may have gotten this from my tank, it wasn't intentional." ****, with friends like you who needs enemies! WTF!!! You sell something here on MAAST and you have to cross your fingers and hope that you don't get flammed. And nobody can say that I am kissing Alex's *** for this becuase that is *******, I don't even expect free meds from him....I'm just sick and tired of these ****** bashing threads that are uncalled for. Not paying is one thing...but something coming into your tank that you can get from the ocean???? This is what we pay $25 for...so we can come on here and back stab our so-called friends and be ****** to everyone?!?!?!?!?!

Edited cursing that wasn't caught by the filters, please refrain from using these words, eh? -J

[Reef69]

Just went through the macro and found 5 flatworms, hopefully they didnt make it to the main tank, so i just threw all the macro away, im gonna wait a few days to see if i find any in the tank..

Anson, instead of cussing the **** out of people, i would go and dig through the macro to see if you find any..lol

[ansonluna]

ORALE!! ;)

[alton]

Sounds like the the next meetings topic shall be changed or at least have this added "Dipping Corals".

[GaryP]

The way we trade frags and other stuff is always going to lead to some critters being passed around. How do you think the red bugs got passed around. Its just a matter of fact and there is no need for finger pointing. Just deal with it and move on. Its not like you got Herpes from Alex!

[brewercm]

I agree Gary. I know in the past I've bought stuff that has had flatworms, mantis shrimp in rocks, bubble algae, you name it I probably got it. I even sold some corals at one point that had flatworms when I had no idea what they were (Sorry Ross). Seems we've been doing this for a couple of years now and there was a huge outbreak a year ago or so of the red acro mites. I don't remember a lynching going on back then or anyone demanding the person who sold the corals go buy the meds to medicate their tanks. Sounds like everyone is getting out of hand on this whole subject and tanking a little advantage of the fact that he owns a LFS.
I remember a while back Alamo Aquatics had a bad case of flatworms in many of their coral tanks. How many people who bought stuff from them or any LFS went to that store and demanded they give them the meds. Sounds like Alex has made a decent gesture in offering and people still don't seem happy. If that is the case I suggest you find another hobby because this isn't the last time you'll get an unexpected and maybe unwanted hitchhiker.

[Am]

Thanks Gary.

Alex is no way intended to hurt anyone or their tank, he is not the type of person he was made out to be. This thread is absurd. I am in shock and cant believe the person who posted it did not talk to me or Alex first.

Like Alex said before Anyone who may have gotten flatworms please come by and get your meds. We are good people and not out to hurt anyone. Thanks to those who are being supportive and not judging us or Alex.

[AlexKilpatrick]

I would like to request a small favor from the group. Can we please specify Alex WOLF in subject lines and whatnot? I know he is more (in)famous than I am, but I already have enough drama in my life..

Thanks. :(

[C.Mydas]

The thread was just supposed to be a 'heads up' thread. I agree it has gotten absurd. Too many emotions involved with this one...

[alexwolf]

Hey guys, I think the initiators of this thread meant no malice, they were simply trying to warn of a potential problem. I would have done the same thing. Yes, I would have prefered to have been called, but its over and done with. I dont think there was any backstabbing done. But, thanks to everyone who stood up for me.

[C.Mydas]

The issue has been discussed, the problem resolved...please do not instigate further drama by posting anything other than info about flatworms. I think Alex will agree with me when we say we are both fed up with this thread and the way it has turned out.

THE END

[Richard]

Anyone who has flatworms is welcome to free meds, I only have 3 boxes so you might have to share. Also, you are more than welcome to a refund of whatever you bought, and I will be glad to help you treat your system.

Also, I never once saw a flatworm in my main tank. I saw a few brown ones in my small fuge, but thats it. I never saw them anywhere else. I just checked again, but cant find any.

Or, I will order you a free sixline wrasse. Let me know what you guys want.

I should keep my mouth shut but what the hell. This is complete BS! Alex your NOT responsible for flatworms existing and you should not have to open up your wallet because god made flatworms. Every hobbyist out there is capable of setting up qt tanks and dealing with these types of things themselves if they want to. If your not doing that then why blame someone else for something that simply exists in this hobby.

This hobby is full of challenges and sometimes S*** Happens. If someone doesn't want to deal with the challenges of this hobby or wants to blame someone else for everything that happens then maybe they shouldn't be in it.

Flatworms are a pretty easy thing to deal with anyway so don't see what the big deal is. In fact most flatworms are beneficial and just feed on detritus. Most tanks will have some harmless flatworms in them and the BLOOMS are usually a maintenance issue more than anything.

[ansonluna]

Josh - I just figued if other people can go off the deep end then so could I. I've paid my dues and devserve to post an outrageous comment as anybody else. :D I appreciate your feedback and comments though.

Awww, and I just found out I missed a fabulous post in reply to my comments that got deleted. Thats too bad. I stand by my comments though. This forum is not the place to take out one's personal issues on somebody else. I don't like reading the drama. Informing us of the flatworms was nice though. :)

[Thunderkat]

Who thought that all it would take were some flatworms for everybody to start hating each other!

To error is human, to forgive divine...

[::pete::]

I wasnt able to finish my posting earlier and I have not even read the rest of the threads. I had an appointment and had to run.

Keep in mind this was started as a warning and a heads up and then like other posts gets too personal and blown out of proportion.

Lets finish by saying ANY lfs, ANY online vendor, ANY wholesaler or Any one of us has the ability to distribute all the known "bad" critters and bugs that we dont want in our tanks. One for example is a "bad" hairy crab ... its just part of the reefkeeping experience and the reason there are sometimes treatments for such things. If you were unfortunate enough to have picked them up treat now with no worries as the toxic level is so small its not worth the carbon, but run it anyway. I treated yesterday and only time will tell if they are gone so Im hoping.

I would also like to add that it was a nice gesture that was not necessary to supply Flat Worm Exit!! I would bet that you wouldnt get that from your online provider.

Now stock up on the necessary materials need to treat your incoming livestock to avoid in the distribution ;) and kill the buggers!

[JimD]

Who's Alex Wolf?

[LoneStar]

Can we please specify Alex WOLF in subject lines and whatnot?


I think your safe.... no alex KILL patric posts here ;)

[alexwolf]

Lol, Jim knows plenty well who I am :D

Troublemaker

[Ed]

Lol, Jim knows plenty well who I am :D

Troublemaker

Troublemaker???

:angel JimD???

Nah.

Guido made him do it! :innocent

[TexasTodd]

Agreed here. THANKS FOR OFFERING THE FLAT WORM EXIT Alex. Nice gesture.

Richard, I fully agree with you too, except that if a store(not talking about Alex here, I mean ANY) store knows they have a pest like red bugs, flat worms, or God forbid the Acro Eating Flat Worms, then I do think it is the store's responsibility to either pull stock and treat, or, at least notify that they had seen them in their system.

We will never be able to have an LFS guarantee that there are no unwanted pests on their stuff, but if they're seen, that is different.

Good way to step up to the plate Alex. I've had "the worms" before from a LFS and they did not give me anything to help fix it.

Todd

[hammondegge]

just curious...what do they look like and what do they do?

[gjuarez]

Nice gesture Alex. You are going beyond great customer service. I got flat worms from a friend a couple of months ago and I didnt get mad because I didnt put the extra effort to search for them. I treated them very quickly and got rid of the flatworms quickly, no biggie. To everyone else, alex has apologized and offered help, lets move on to helping newbies and spreading the knowledge. You don't want me to call the rest of the Maast Mafia do you?

Maastards
Against the
Fighting and
Inappropriate
Attitudes

[hammondegge]

thanks, i've seen those in there before...they dont seem to be causing any troubles, all corals are healthy and happy. should i freak!?

[CD]

You don't want me to call the rest of the Maast Mafia do you?


You rang? :skeezy



should i freak!?


I wouldn't "freak" per se, but I would definitely treat...they can multiply fast. As someone has mentioned already, the treatment itself is not hard on your tank, it is the toxin that the flat worms put off as they are dying. Get 'em now before the numbers increase ;)

W. :)

[gjuarez]

You rang? :skeezy

Too late now, even I wont be able to caller off now. Run for it.

[NaCl_H2O]

Maastards
Against the
Fighting and
Inappropriate
Attitudes

I love it, that is perfect :lol
Is the witch hunt over yet, I would really like to get back to enjoying myself :)

[JeffCo]

All I know is I got some really nice acros from Alex for a good price. I have come to expect all kinds of parasites/bugs from anything I buy. Nothing is a gurantee. That's why I have a 3 step process for everything I add to the tank. I learned my lesson.

Step 1: Interceptor treatment.
Step 2: Lugols dip
Step 3: FW exit

Have not had any problems since doing this and I recommend that everyone treat everything before adding it to your tank.

[gjuarez]

Good procedure, I think with all of that you can get rid of all and any parasites. How does the coral respond to all that medication?

[gjuarez]

That was my initial thought as well. I did get an idea though. Is it possible to have a quarantine tank with interceptor all the time, will it lose its effectiveness?

[JeffCo]

Yes, your right, it's more of a soak than a dip. :D

That's why I was up till 3 am after picking up the corals. :blink

[gjuarez]

Well, I will use it whenever I get a shipment of acros.

[thedude]

In my experience, using a concentrated lugol's dip will kill red acro bugs so the interceptor treatment is unnecessary. The reason you can't dose a tank with concentrated lugol's is well... quite obvious :roll

[satx-94integraLS]

subject and tanking a little advantage of the fact that he owns a LFS.
I remember a while back Alamo Aquatics had a bad case of flatworms...

having worked for that... well i wont get vulgar... company, i can say i will NEVER refer anyone to them ever again. the last person i referred to them (my mechanic @ midas) ended up buying a 200$ wet/dry system for a 20 gallon tank when he could have bought a cPR backpack or something similar and saved himself a good 100$. that cheeky mexican with the messed up grill, gabe, needs to be fired (again). chris and jason are cool guys, mona is one awesome chick, brad is a slacker thatll never go anywhere in life, and the 2 register girls (the tall blonde in particular) are only there because eddie/gabe have explicatives for them.

again i will NEVER refer anyone to that store. texas tropicals is a much better, albeit not that much, alternative to shopping at alamo. the only thing that makes alamo desirable is that theyre open till 9pm. then again, so is fin addict, and its a MUCH MUCH MUCH better saltwater store than alamo will ever be.