What kind of filter system best for propagating corals?

[hedgehog01]

Hi
I am knew to MAAST forum, I have been a salt water aquarist for almost 3 years just moved back here after being stationed in Montana. I was limited to the equipment and advice of the one pet store that sold Salt water equipment. Anyways know that I am in San Antonio I have acess to a ton of equipment. I have a 55gallon 40 TO 50LBS. OF LIVE ROCK with a Aquaclear 300 filter , CPR back pack, 4 Maxi-jet power heads, the Coral life - Lunar Aqualight 260 Watt. I am looking for a good system to propagating corals, I've gotten different advice from different stores which is expected since I am sure there are a lot of different set-ups. I am looking for some non-bais advice on wether I should go to a WET/DRY FILTER AND A REFUGIUM OR JUST ADD A REFUGIUM. I AM ALSO OPEN TO ANY SUGGESTION IF THERES ANY OTHER OPTIONS OUT BESIDE WHAT I HAVE ON MY TANK OR WHAT I AM CONSIDERING.

STEPHEN

[MikeyBoy]

Stephen,

I have had both and I personally prefer the refugium.
Its like a another whole enviornment.
You get to see and watch develop different things you wont see in your main tank.

And of course all the scientific reasons, you can grow Macro algea and mangroves.......its cool.


JMO and it is biased......sorry.

[GaryP]

My best suggestion is to visit some other reefers' tanks and pick and choose the best from all of them.

[CD]

First off Stephen - WELCOME TO MAAST!!! :D

As far as refugiums - I am a firm believer in them. The macro and critters help keep the water in the display in MUCH better quality (macros like chaeto use up undesireable elements in your water as they grow) , plus you are increasing your water volume, which is always a good thing. If you have a wet-dry, I would go ahead and use that also. Since you are more interested in prop'ing. corals and not having fish in the system, the WD will most likely do fine. I prefer the addition of a sump and protein skimmer, but for a tank that size, weekly water changes will most likely keep your params in check. It's generally the bio-load and undisolved nutrients that will get you in trouble anyway.

Since you are in SA, come to the MAAST meeting on the 31st of this month. Meet some people, and see if they would mind you coming to look at their systems. It's always a great help to see how others have done their setups to give you ideas about your own. ;)

W. :)

[GaryP]

You'll see an outstanding filter system at the meeting. Don's aggressive reef system combines all the components of a good filter system. The combination of predators and a reef tank is very challenging and Don has done an excellent job of designing a system to handle the requirements of such a system.

[hedgehog01]

Wendy,

Thank you, I am looking forward to attending. I do have 7 fish and 2inverts(Cleaner shrimp,sally foot cramb), is this a bad thing for propagating? Should I look at adding a refugium to my Aquaclear 300 hang-on or go to a wet-dry and a refugium together, or just a refugium.

Thanks Stephen

[CD]

You are quite welcome, Stephen! I'm sure you will really love this club, and the meetings are a BLAST. We always learn something. It's not just a get together - we have educational speakers, and raffles...exchange ideas. It's loads of fun!

As far as the fish - what do you have? Some can create QUITE a larger bio-load than others. Cleaner shrimp are fine...I'd shy away from peppermint shrimp though, as they can be destructive to some items (IOW I wouldn't get any if you don't have 'em). The sally light-foots are OK when they are small, but I have read they can become quite a problem when they get really big - not as much to the corals, but definitely the small fish and other inverts. Keep an eye on 'em!

As far as what you've listed on the filtration options, personally I'd go with the wet-dry and the 'fuge. IF you haven't purchased any of this stuff yet, it may be less costly to you to wait until you have had a chance to view some tanks that our wonderful S.Antonio members have. IOW - what may happen, is you'll buy this stuff, and wish you had done something else later...then you've already spent money, and you'll not be able to sell it for what you paid. It doesn't sound as if you are in a huge hurry, so personally I would wait - come to the meeting and see what all is availb. to you to make your prop tank a success. If you are planning on SPS for this prop tank, your water flow is going to be yet another important factor. Most corals, and *especially* SPSs like LOTS of flow. ;)

W. :)

[gjuarez]

hedge, I think a very important thing to mention is what type of corals you are wanting to propogate. If it is just softies, I think you will do just fine with a wet/dry. If you are propogating lps and sps, you might get better results with a combination of both. Any filter that can get your amonia, nitrites and nitrates at 0 is a good filter. Well the nitrates you might have to get them out manually through water changges. The more live rock the better the biological filtration. Good luck with your new tank and I am sure the san antonio folks will be there to help you with whatever you need.
Jerry

[hedgehog01]

The fish I have are Convict tang, Dwarf fuzzy lion, Orca dottyback, canary blenny, Mandarian, a pair of percula clowns. Would you get a Fuge first cause I heard a Wet/Dry can make your Nitrates shoot really high.

Stephen

[CD]

Wow, Stephen...that fish list is going to produce a fairly significant bio-load (especially the tang) for a 55G system. Also, I'm kind of surprised that your Mandarin dragonette is doing OK without you having a refugium to breed 'pods in for him to eat. If it were me? I would look into adding a sump, refugium and maybe even a bigger skimmer. That's JMO though. What are your water params currently?

W.

[GaryP]

Allow me to jump in and clarify one fallacy here. A wet/dry will not cause your nitrate to jump up. The purpose of the wet/dry is to produce nitrates as part of how nitrogenous waste is cycled in an aquarium. But on the other hand, live rock produces nitrates too and I haven't seen anyone recommend removing it from a tank. Nitrate is produced from nitrites and ammonia which are far more toxic then nitrates.

The cause of high nitrate levels is not its production, but rather the lack of an environment and bacterial population to continue the nitrogen cycle to the final product in the nitrogen cycle which is nitrogen and nitrous oxide gases. Here is a simplified nitrogen cycle:

Organic nitrogenous waste >>> ammonia >>> nitrite >>> nitrate >>> nitrogen gases.

The finakl step, which is called denitrification occurs in a low oxygen environment such as a deep sand bed or in the deep pores of Live Rock. Its carried out by a bacteria called Nitrospira.

[bigdscobra]

You might want to look at your lighting too. I have noticed a big differnce when I switched from my dual 96w PC coralite to Metal Halide lights. You may want to go with two 250w MH XM 10k and some VHOs to add actinic. If you want good growth in the sps.

[thedude]

I'm going to add also that those mandarins may be doing ok but are probably slowly starving. They're too docile to feed on tank food even if they'll eat it usually. Take a look at Marc's page at www.melevsreef.com and make yourself a mandarin diner to see if they'll take to it.

[Tim Marvin]

Almost all natural! Rock, sand, refugium, skimmer (simulates surf) for O2 and protein removal, and water changes. There is a handful of other equipment that is good for maintaining levels like Kalk reactor, auto-top offs, calcium reactor, and so on. It all depends on how much time you want to spend working on it daily.

[hedgehog01]

I have had my Madarian for almost three years now. I have plenty of coco pods and I believe they are actually breeding inside my Aqua clear 300 hangons Foam. All I know is the've gotten huge since I first started the tank. Madarian supplements with brine,blood, and mysis that I feed my other fish but I always see him picking all over the place at other micro things and small coco pods. I also see huge coco pods in my substrate. I give that page a try.
thanks

[Tim Marvin]

Is your mandarin eating brine shrimp? I have a mated pair that are fat little pigs in an 80 gallon tank. They eat tons of frozen mysid, brine, and live stuff off the rocks. The tank is connected to a 200 gallon system though with 2 refugiums and plenty of copepods. You can greatly increase a pod population with piles or rubble and refugiums. I feed a little flake food to my refugiums now and then and you can almost watch the pod population grow.

[GaryP]

Richard pointed out a mistake I made in a previous post in this thread. Nitrobacter is thought to be involved in the nitrite step of the ntrogen cycle, not the nitrate step. Actually, Micrococcus, Pseudomonas, Denitrobacillas, and Bacillus are the bacteria thought to be responsible for dentrifcation.

In case anyone is interested in learning more about the nitrogen cycle, and filtration in general, here is a good link:

http://www.reef-aquarium.net/resources/equipment/filtration.html

[hedgehog01]

Looking at the melevsreef page I was thinking I could build my own sump and refuigium. Have any of you built your own? If so any tips on what to use and what not. Whats a good size sump and refuigium for a 55 gallon.

[CD]

Whats a good size sump and refuigium for a 55 gallon.


Personally for that sized system, I wouldn't go any smaller than say 20-30Gs. There are lots of people that even have sumps and 'fuges with more water volume than the display tanks themselves! :o
Go with what you feel comfortable having, and as big as you can with the space you have availb. to you. ;)

W. :)