Venturi or Beckett

[pilot_bell777]

Venturi or Beckett for a 90 gallon?

and if you vote....you have to explain your opinions! LOL ^_^

[gjuarez]

I think if I had a choice and money were not an issue I would go with the beckett, but then again I like heavy skimming.

[NaCl_H2O]

I gotta go with Venturi, but actually Venturi with a needle wheel via a closed loop on the skimmer. I have been very impressed with my AquaMedic Turbofloater, and Mikeboy and Dan both have the same unit, and I believe feel the same way.

Here are some of the PROs:
- Cheap, ~$600 for a skimmer that can handle a 1000g system
- Only additional cost is the MAG12 (~$100) supplying it (No HUGE pump to drive the becketts)
- Don't need to fiddle with it to get the simmate right, it is always right
- VERY long contact time in reaction chamber

[::pete::]

I didnt vote and just wanted to add ... a beckett is the venturi ;) ...

[NaCl_H2O]

I didnt vote and just wanted to add ... a beckett is the venturi ;) ...

The President ... didn't vote, and wants to confuse the issues :P

[gjuarez]

so the beckett is the venturi? I must have learned like 10 different things today.

[Richard]

so the beckett is the venturi?


No a venturi is a venturi. A beckett is a venturi on steroids. The spray injected skimmers (AquaC) are pretty good also.

[::pete::]

A venturi is nothing more than a device similiar to a jet engine. The water comes in one opening the opening decreases in size and is compressed, air is introduced and the output is a jet or stream of water and mixed bubbles.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the needle wheel is a venturi that is then chopped up into even finer bubbles by way of the needle wheel.

11 and 12 ;)

[matt]

A "venturi" in the context of skimmers is anything that pulls air into a stream of water by using fast moving water in a specific chamber to lower air pressure around the stream, then introducing air in a way that mixes the two. Virtually all skimmers do this, the exception being skimmers that use air pumps and stones.

"Beckett" is a brand name of a fountain head that just happens to work well and is easy to install in typical size fittings for skimmers. The original intent of the beckett company was just to manufacture a fountain head that would mount on a garden hose-type arrangement and produce bubbles in a backyard garden fountain. But somewhere along the line somebody experimented and found out you could force high pressure salt water through these things and get a great quantity of foam. I have no idea who made the first "beckett" skimmers.

So, Pete's first response, "a beckett is the venturi" is correct. In aquaC skimmers, the cloverleaf crushed tubing is the venturi.

Sorry to tread on your poll due to semantics; but if you're wanting to compare skimmers, why don't you specify which ones you're interested in? Not all beckett skimmers are created equal.

[pilot_bell777]

This is what I got off WWM:

Venturi:

Venturi air-injection was the next big technological development in the evolution of marine aquarium protein skimmers. A venturi is a specially designed piece of plumbing with a profile that resembles an inverted "T". Water is forced through at high velocity, which causes a low-pressure suction on the open stem (top) of the inverted T and draws air in. You may have noticed this feature on powerhead water pumps. In this application, venturis are used to inject air into their water stream to aid in oxygenation. In this application they are rather crude devices, but you get the picture. Protein skimmer venturi valves, however, are high precision instruments engineered to produce a very fine-sized air bubble. The better ones also come with a threaded needle control valve for fine-tuning the amount of air injected into the skimmer.

The venturi-driven skimmers were a significant improvement over air-driven skimmers. The keystone of a good, simple venturi skimmer is the water pump that drives both the air and water flow, ideally, with great consistency. This should translate into less maintenance/adjustment (perhaps weekly instead of daily) for the aquarist and more reliable skimmate produced. In contrast, air-driven skimmers may require you to adjust both the amount of air and water fed into the contact chamber, which can complicate attempts at producing dark skimmate consistently. Venturi skimmers require that their water pump be cleaned frequently, like any water pump, of buildup (bacterial slime and mulm) on all interior parts and surfaces. You will also need to periodically clean the venturi stem of dust and debris like salt creep or scale that accumulate. Comparatively, venturi style skimmers cost a little more than air-driven models, but for that extra money, they should produce more skimmate regularly if designed well.

Advantages to Venturi skimmers:

· Well-designed models are a better value than air-driven models: a lot more production for little extra cost

· Some good designs are available and affordable for systems on a budget

· Lower maintenance and no significant expense of upkeep (no air stones or pump diaphragms)

· Most designs occupy comparatively less space: compact units are available and worthy

Disadvantages to Venturi skimmers:

· The hobby market is flooded with inferior models in this style (research your brand and prospects well!)

· A reduced contact time in compact models demands properly delivered feed water for efficient skimming (this has been addressed/corrected in some models with extended contact centrifugal chambers)


Beckett


Downdraft skimmers are some of the most powerful skimmers available and quite popular with large home aquariums. They use a big pump to inject water down a narrow tube at high velocity. This thin tube usually has bioballs or like media in it. These are not intended for biological filtration, although some bacteria will inevitably develop there and participate in biological filtration. The real purpose of this media is to whisk water through the baffles (bio-balls) at a high speed to create ultra fine bubbles like whitewater in rapids. The crashing water forced through the bio-balls creates very effective foam, which is then channeled into a box below before continuing on its way to rise and accumulate skimmate via a larger reaction chamber.

Downdraft skimmers are inherently expensive due to their large size, raw materials needed for production (thick acrylic), and the amount of skilled craftsmanship needed for fabrication. They also require a large water pump, which adds to both their initial cost and ongoing operational expenses; for many smaller tanks they are overkill with regard for efficacy and purchase price. Most units are also somewhat to very unfriendly to clean and service routinely (recessed and inaccessible regions, tedious thumb screws for disassembly, etc). On the positive side, however, they are relatively easy to adjust and perform exceptionally well on large systems with heavy bioloads.

Advantages to Downdraft skimmers:

· Consistent and reliable bubble size and skimmate production

· Well suited for large aquariums and heavy bio-loads

Disadvantages to Downdraft skimmers:

· Expensive to purchase and operate

· Difficult to clean and service

· Necessarily large and cumbersome by design

· A poor value for performance versus price paid (more "bang for your buck" on other styles)

· Noise of operation is can be an issue for some aquarists

· The large pumps required impart significant heat to system. This can be dangerous for systems already operating on a precarious threshold.

There is another style of skimmer I want to briefly mention. These are the so-called Beckett skimmers. I think of these as more of a version or better yet an evolution of the Downdraft units. They appeared soon after downdraft units. At a glance, they are very similar to downdraft models. In gross form, they have two tubes like a downdraft skimmer: one to mix air and water, and the second to work as a reaction chamber. But, unlike a downdraft skimmer, instead of relying on the high velocity crashing of water through bio-balls to form a frothy foam, they use a special nozzle, called a “Beckett” after the pond company that makes a similar nozzle for pond aeration. Beckett-style skimmers have much of the brute force of downdraft skimmers. Alas, they also come with the same drawbacks: the sheer size of both the unit itself and the pump required to run it, the cost of the unit to purchase and operate, heat imparted from large pumps to the system, noise of operation, and the cleaning hassles.

This is what I was reading to spark this question because based on this they are different types of skimmers and Beckett is not a "Brand Name" but a different type of Downdraft/Spray Injection type skimmer that uses a spray head instead of a force of water.

But, unlike a downdraft skimmer, instead of relying on the high velocity crashing of water through bio-balls to form a frothy foam, they use a special nozzle, called a “Beckett” after the pond company that makes a similar nozzle for pond aeration.

Here is the article entirely......

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/proskimrart2.htm

I'm just curious....planning on buying a skimmer for my new 90 and wanted opinions is all.

[falcondob]

I have one of Pete's venturi-style skimmers using Dual-Beckett devices to produce bubbles. The skimmer is almost 6 feet tall. The first cylinder chamber is about 4 feet long and, when running, that column is solid white with bubbles, 99% of which are what I would term "micro bubbles".

I am driving it with a Panworld 200PS. This is a pressure rated pump. For we that are just learning, that means it can handle more head pressure. Head pressure being the back pressure from the water column on the output side. If I got it wrong, somebody correct me.

I am VERY happy with the skimmer. I could see "gunk"coming out of the water and into the bubbles within 3-4 minutes of firing up the first time. (Might also be an indication of my water quality, ouch!) After asking Pete about how to dial it in, it has been producing great skimate.

The only issues I have so far are:

(1) I have had a difficult time dialing it in and getting it to stay there. I assume that this is my lack of expertise and nothing to do with the skimmer. The more I work with it, the darker the skimate becomes. I am also told that it takes some time for a skimmer to break in.

(2) The Panworld is not a self-priming pump. The way I have it set up it is cumbersome and it will stop pumping for reasons I am not yet sure of.

(3) The pump is expensive, I am not sure how the dollar/ounce of skimate compares to airstone or other design types.

(4) The pump is big. I am not sure how the watt/ounce of skimate compares to airstone or other design types.

They are monsters for pulling out skimate. Like I said, I am happy with it.

Just my 1.235 cents,
John

[pilot_bell777]

Ya...I've asked ~Pete~ for a price twice on a skimmer and haven't heard back. I heard he was the man on skimmers so I contacted him. Guess if I don't hear something soon I will just have to buy a ready made one. :cry

I ran a vent one on my last tank and was thinking about trying the beckett this time, not sure yet though sense I will also have a refugium and a clam to filter water.

Undecided at this point.......

[alton]

I know spray injection wasn't one of the selections but if I can, I would like to write in my vote for Aqua C Urchin Pro. Plug it in and forget about it except for dumping of the waste container which is twice a week for my 200g and once a week for my 155g. My boss has had his in his sump for I think around 3 years with no problems. Personally I think it's quieter than other skimmers I have used.

[Reef69]

I have to go with Venturi. I have an AquaMedic Turboflotor T1000 and it works great. It is powered by an Oceanrunner 2500...2 Thumbs up!

[::pete::]

The spray is the first skimmer I made when out of town and it is quieter, but again just a device to introduce air into the water column. Venturi, beckett or spray ... they all do the same thing!

[LoneStar]

this is a very good timing thread because i'm in the market for a new skimmer (which will probably end up being a beckett from ~pete~)

[matt]

This is what I was reading to spark this question because based on this they are different types of skimmers and Beckett is not a "Brand Name" but a different type of Downdraft/Spray Injection type skimmer that uses a spray head instead of a force of water.
[quote]

Beckett IS a brand name, but not of a skimmer company. The quote you included in your post says this:

"they use a special nozzle, called a “Beckett” after the pond company that makes a similar nozzle for pond aeration.

The only innacuracy in this quote is that it says "similar" nozzle; in fact, we use the actual pond fountain nozzle made by the beckett company. Now, you're right in that the term "Beckett" is commonly used to describe a type of skimmer that uses this nozzle, but that's where the word came from. BTW, downdraft skimmers are different; you don't see too many of them any more, but a few years ago they were the rage. They too have a venturi of sorts, to let air in the downdraft tube, which then mixes with water as the stream crashes over a stack of bioballs. As you might expect, those bioballs got pretty dirty!

For your tank, (approx 100-120gall if I remember) any one of the decent quality beckett or spray induction (aquaC) skimmers will work well, provided you use the right pump. If you're planning on heavily stocking your tank, don't be afraid to get a skimmer "rated" for a much larger tank. Manufacturer "ratings" for X gallons are little more than marketing techniques; there's certainly no objective criteria. You might send Gator a PM; he's selling a nice beckett skimmer that would do the job well.

[::pete::]

Im curious why the balls would get so dirty as they would be getting pounded with water constantly!

I have rubble in my sump to break up the overflow and those rocks are super clean. I see this as a close comparison even though there might be more surface area on the balls.

[pilot_bell777]

Ouch Matt...didn't mean to offend...just was posting the way that I took the article that I read. When I think "Brand Name" I thinke Red Sea, Auca C, etc.... it just read to me like the down draft was one type and then any skimmer that uses the "Nozzle" is classed as a Beckett. Just the way I read it.

[matt]

No offense taken; part of my post got put in the quote section for some reason. Anyhow, beckett is a brand name, of the company that makes the fountain nozzles.

I think the undersides of the bioballs would collect debris or whatever, but apparently constantly emptying and cleaning the bioball chamber was part of using one of these skimmers. Since i never owned one, I can't say for sure, but that's what I read.