Kalkwasser Dose

[Reef69]

Hey guys..Does anybody know how much kalkwasser i should dose to my tank?..and how often? ive always dosed B-ionic..should i do both (kalk and b-ionic?)..thanks!!!

[NaCl_H2O]

I top off all evaporation with Kalk water, I no longer dose any B-Ionic

That said, get Salifert Ca and dKH test kits and watch your parms.

[CD]

When the 75G was still up and running, we dripped kalk most every night with a Kangaroo 224 dosing pump. Now that we have the calcium reactor on the 210G set up, we haven't been dosing...I'm wondering if we should continue...? I guess I'll tag along here if that's oK... :P

W.

[NaCl_H2O]

Wendy, no chemistry class here, I'll leave that for GaryP ;)

I makeup all evaporation with Kalk water, and run my Ca Reactor. There are some discussions that these may interact with one another in a not so good manner, but I haven't had problems that I can tell. I do have them dosing into different areas of the sump, so they aren't right on top of each other.

Both maintain Ca levels, and the Ca Reactor media provides other trace elements (like B-Ionic does). Obviously, the Kalk also keeps PH levels up. The Ca Reactor also helps maintain the dKH level, or at least mine drops without it.

If your parms are good I would leave it alone. Your system is fairly new & still breaking in, so parms will likely drift one way or the other during the first 6 months or so.

[Reef69]

im still wondering what the dose should be..and how often?..and should i add b-ionic aswell???...the Ca. was at 560 when i left for europe and its at 420 now..so, im wondering what i should do...

[NaCl_H2O]

560ppm Ca is WAY high! 420 is fine.

How are you testing, and are you also testing dKH? With 560 Ca, I'll bet your dKH was low?

What salt are you using, and how old is your tank?

As far as Kalk "dosing" goes, you add it to RO/DI water, mix and settle, then drip the clear water into your sump slowly. Fully saturated Kalk Water should have a PH of around 12.50-12.75. Not sure how much Kalk powder is needed for a gallon or two? I mix it constantly in my 20g top off resovoir, excess just settles to the bottom to be stirred up later.

[Reef69]

alk was 8 dkh when i left..

salt..Oceanic..tank is 2 yrs old...

[NaCl_H2O]

Study This Article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm) on Aquarium Chemistry (my favorite). With Ca=560 and dKH=8 (2.86 meg/L), you are way into Zone 4, and probably "Making Sand"

At Ca=420, if your dKH is 8-11, you are actualy in very good shape. Oceanic will tend to drive your Ca high, and hold dKH low. You need to add a buffer to balance it out.

[GaryP]

There is no tried and true answer to your question. No two tank are the same and no two dosing strategies will be the same. The answer is going to be trial and error until you have a system that will work for you. I'm doising Kalk with my system and still have to add a 2 part like B Ionic to maintain my levels. I guess you could say I'm using a 3 part system. It really depends on what the calcium and alkalinity demand on your system is. In other words, how much calcium and alkalinity is being used by corals, clams, coralline algae, etc.

Your just going to have to do a lot of testing to determine how much to add. Even if you are able to supply enough Kalk to maintain your calcium, you may sill have to add buffer to maintain your alkalinity. Kalk does contribute buffer, but sometimes not enough to meet the demand.

Kalk is a lot trickier then other additives and I would strongly suggest you fully research it before you jump in. Kalk is one of the few additives that can be toxic if not applied correctly, both to you and the critters in your tank.

[Reef69]

You are right Gary..I guess ill start playing with the system..until i get a perfect dose..Thanks Steve and Gary

[GaryP]

To use Kalk are your primary supplement I really think you need to look at going with a Kalk reactor.

[Tim Marvin]

I use Oceanic salt, a kalk reactor to top off ALL water replacement, and dose an occassional magnesium shot. Like GaryP stated, "no two tanks are the same", but mine stay remarkably stable and have very good color and growth. I can produce nearly 100 frags per month out of an 80 gallon tank connected to a system with total water volume of around 200 gallons.

[Reef69]

wow..100 frags per month...

The thing is, ive been stuffing my tank with a bunch of SPS lately, so the demand for CA is gonna go up. So im wondering, should i keep my Ca. at 420 or should i go up?..ill test Alk in a bit, i have no clue where it stands..

[Tim Marvin]

420 is fine. I've had it at 500-520 before but it always settles back out in the high 400's.

[Reef69]

yeah, it was at 560 when i left last month...and alk was at 8 dkh

today Ca. is at 420 and alk at 5.6 dkh (100 ppm) ..sound right??

[Tim Marvin]

You'll probably drop back into the 400's.

[Reef69]

According to the article Steve posted, my alk is low...

[Tim Marvin]

keep dosing kalk, and add some buffer slowly.

[Reef69]

Alright..thanks Tim..

[Tim Marvin]

I just tested mine today since it has been months. Alk is a little low at 9 Dkh, Ca 500, PH 8.1, salinity at 1.024, temp 82, Mag 1500.

[Reef69]

is 5.6 DkH too low??

[Tim Marvin]

Yes, it should be 9-12. Your tank is on the verge of danger. I'd get the buffer in there soon.

[NaCl_H2O]

Yea, 5.6 is very low and you need to raise it without a substantial raise in Ca, meaning B-Ionic won't work! I think a buffer (washing/backing soda)will be safe ... maybe GaryP will chime in here for the expert advise?

[Reef69]

What about the Alk component of B-ionic?...other than that i have no clue...

[NaCl_H2O]

What about the Alk component of B-ionic

That should raise dKH, but maybe not very much or balanced? I have never tried it. Get some Kent Superbuffer dKH, or use GaryP's Baking/Washing soda recipe.

[NaCl_H2O]

Note: make sure your dKH testing is accurate. Take a sample to a LFS or get a new/fresh test kit, or another member to cross test. There have been many threads in the past ...

Alk is low,
added buffer, more buffer, more buffer
No change
... Oops, Alk is 14 & tank is crashing, now what?

When adjusting parameters with addatives, if something just doesn't seem right, it probably isn't! I speak from experience :blush :innocent

[GaryP]

When adjusting parameters with addatives, if something just doesn't seem right, it probably isn't! I speak from experience :blush :innocent

The other problem is that a lot of people have a hard time with is how to dose their tanks with additives. The directions on the bottle is just a recommended starting point. Or... the other alternative is they are adding the supplement incorrectly and making sand so that there is no buffer going into solution and thus no impact on the test results. I'm speaking of the actual method of addition here.

[Reef69]

ok, im officially lost..should i add the alk b-ionic part?..should i dose kalk..should i add buffer?..

[NaCl_H2O]

Sorry ...
1) Stop dripping Kalk
2) Get some SuperBuffer dKH & a new salifert dKH test kit
3) Dose buffer (qty) per instructions
4) Add it slowly in a brisk flowing area of your sump
5) Test dKH
6) Repeat 3-4-5 as needed
7) if dKH isn't changing, or you get snow, or cloudy water, or anything sems odd - STOP & repost
8 ) When dKH is back in 9-11 range, you can resume Kalk
9) Test often and watch for drastic swings in dKH, Ca, or PH

No warranties expressed or implied :P

[Reef69]

Thanks Steve, ill do that....but i havent dosed anything since way before i left for europe, Ca was at 560 and alk at 8 dkh..but ill start on it right now..

[NaCl_H2O]

Good luck! Just take it easy, when things get out of whack you need to change them slowly - all this stuff (Ca, dKH, PH is interrelated, and changing one impacts the others)

... In reef tanks, only bad things happen quickly!

[Reef69]

Ok, i started to dose ESV Liquid Carbonate Buffer..1 ml/4 gal. I guess ill check back tomorrow..i also tested my Ph and its at 8.0...

[GaryP]

Let me give you a hint at a good way to add the buffer.

Pour however much you want to add into a cup, run some airline tubing from the cup to your sump, place a plastic air valve at the bottom of the airline. You may have to suck on the tubing to get it to start siponing and then put the valve on. Set the valve to drip one drop per second or so and place it in an area of a lot of flow or turbulence so it gets a lot of mixing. I use a clothes pin to secure both ends of the airline tubing.

I have mine set up with a drip jug that makes it easier.

[Reef69]

so basically just drip it..ill do that tomorrow depending on what the alk tests in the morning..

[GaryP]

Another thing to remember about alk is that there are other things that exert a demand on your alk besides corals. Alk gets "used up" as it neutralizes acids. Your alkalinity concentration has a tendency to fall a lost faster than your calcium level. Kalk will produces some alkalinity through neutralization of CO2 but not enough to meet your entire demand. That's why most folks I know of that use Kalk as their primary additive also dose buffer to supplement the Kalk.

[Reef69]

Yeah, gonna have to juggle alk and ca. , never really paid attention to it before i left, but since i came back, alot of things changed. Also, should i really worry about magnesium?? Im discovering there is more than Ph , Ca and alk...lol

[GaryP]

Magnesium helps stabilize calcium and alkalinity and prevents the "white cloud" or in other words precipitation of calcium carbonate.

[Reef69]

I was reading Tim produces a bunch of frags per month..does mag help out alot?

[NaCl_H2O]

I was reading Tim produces a bunch of frags per month..does mag help out alot?

Coral growth like Tim is experiencing requires two VERY unrelated events to occur, and can only be accomplished by the insanely confident reefer:
1) Stop testing all parameters for at least 30 days prior to #2
2) The reefkeeper Gods must smile down upon you and grant you ideal (but unmeasurable - see #1) water parameters

But don't worry, earlier in this thread he said he tested again today - this angers the reefer Gods and Tim's SPS growth will soon halt and a 100 year reefer flood will engulf his home.

Please pray for our brother Tim :(

[Reef69]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reef69]

Ok, this morning my alk is at 7 dkh, Ph at 8.2...seems that buffer helped..

[jaded]

I use GaryP's method's excusively with great success. I add 120cc's of buffer (washing soda/baking sode recipe) and 60cc's of calium (dow flake recipe).

I'm not suggesting that this is the correct dose for your tank, as stated before no 2 tanks will be the same, but I did want to point out that I tested daily for roughly 3 weeks before I found the right numbers. I did it very slowly as instructed by Gary and have never seen a cloud of new sand :) Everything in the tank is looking great and I'm seeing new growth everywhere. I tried Kalk but was unhappy with the whole process so I decided to give this a try and so far I couldnt be happier.