It's time... DIY auto top off questions

[jaded]

I'm looking for a way to auto top directly from my RO/DI. Does anyone have plans for something like this?

I found this DIY page (http://mistressreef.homestead.com/files/DIY/diy.html). It sounds really simple and I'm pretty sure it would work with an RO/DI, but it's not very specific and I need advise.

My RO/DI is going to be far enough away that the tubing will need to be run through the attic and down through the wall (roughly 50' of line). Do you think this is something that would fit the bill or am I on the wrong track all together?

I would want to add a manual valve to fill my emergency/water change barrel of course.

[Thunderkat]

That link is a shameless advertisement for Dr Pepper :lol

That has some good ideas in it, I put it on my list of favorites.

Dentists everywhere approve of the algae toothbrush for use in "trouble patients". :lol

[jaded]

that was my plan, but I thought there might be a better way. Is there anyway to make this work?

[Richard]

I just use a spectrapure auto top off unit which is hooked directly to my ro/di line. It has worked very well for me.

Here's the link...
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_alc_p1.htm

[NaCl_H2O]

The spectrapure is probably the best bet for you - looks like a good unit. I am working on something that will mix/dose kalk directly from RO/DI flow, but still "In the works"

[Richard]

I am working on something that will mix/dose kalk directly from RO/DI flow, but still "In the works"


Actually mine is hooked to my PM kalk reactor too. Water flows like this....

RO/DI --->Spectrapure soleniod In--->Spectapure Soleniod Out--->JG Valve to slow water flow---->Kalk Reactor---->Sump

I had to put the kalk reactor after the topoff unit because PM kalk reactors aren't designed to hold pressure.

[BuckeyeHydro]

I'm not a fan of running the RO/DI right to a float valve. When the float valve fails, the water from the RO will continue to flow to your sump - its under pressure. Unless you notice it soon, your salinity will be affected and then you've got trouble. I prefer a setup where a reservoir is filled once a week, and that reservoir gravity flows to a float valve in the sump.

[jaded]

there has to be a way to make a DIY of the spectrapure system... I will need to make this work from 50' away, I'd like to know how it works so I can make it as safe as possible and I'd like to have a redundant float switch for emergencies. Perhaps I can talk to an electronics place for advice.

I also have a 125gpd RO/DI and the spectrapure is rated to 80gpd so I'll need to beef up the solenoid

[matt]

I used a solenoid on the input of my R.O./D.I. filter that was triggered by a timer and a float switch. You have to get a good solenoid to handle the pressure of the input side of the R.O. unit, which is high. If you put the solenoid on the output side, it's subject to much less pressure, but water continues to flow to the filter even when it's closed, which means you're constantly dumping waste water and putting way more water through your system. Plus, most solenoids have some metal in them, so i wanted the water to flow through it before the filter.

Basically, in my system, the timer controlled the solenoid most of the time; the float switch was there to turn it off if the sump level went too high. This is useful, because if you just use a float switch, your filter will be starting and stopping throughout the day. The timer basically turned it on every 12 hours for 45 minutes or so, which was enough to keep my tank topped off.

Now, what you really need to avoid is having the thing stick on, so think about a system where at least two thing would have to fail "open" to make that happen. Solenoids are "normal closed" which means they tend to fail closed. I didn't have that backed up, but at least both the timer and float switch would need to fail to leave the solenoid turned on. A simple solution would be to have another solenoid in series before the filter (or after, I guess) that would be triggered by the float switch.

There are also pressure switches for R.O. units which turn flow to the filter off if they sense pressure on the output side. A simple back up would be a mechanical float switch, like the Kent, high in the sump, so that when the sump filled enough to trip the Kent switch, it would put pressure on the output side of the filter and trip the pressure switch.

[jaded]

I was thinking about a dual float switch (no timer) The main float switch would open the solenoid when the water dropped and the backup float switch would always be "open" unless the water reached high enough to close the solenoid. In other words the backup would be an open circuit all the time unless the main switch failed... if that happened the rise in water level would close the solenoid. If they both fail I would have a mess...

Is there a problem with using this solenoid valve (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611630332) It has a brass fitting. I'm not sure what that would effect if anything

[jaded]

does anyone know how much pressure I need to stop with a solenoid before the RO/DI? I dont even know where I would start looking for that information.

[matt]

I was thinking about a dual float switch (no timer) The main float switch would open the solenoid when the water dropped and the backup float switch would always be "open" unless the water reached high enough to close the solenoid. In other words the backup would be an open circuit all the time unless the main switch failed... if that happened the rise in water level would close the solenoid. If they both fail I would have a mess...

Is there a problem with using this solenoid valve (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611630332) It has a brass fitting. I'm not sure what that would effect if anything

You're going to have the issue of your filter turning on-off-on-off constantly with the set up you described. I've heard of using a 2 float switch arrangement in which both have to be either on or off for the solenoid to fire. The switches are set at slightly different depths. This way, the level drops to open the first (higher) switch, nothing happens, it keeps dropping and opens the second switch, water comes on, starts rising, closes the second switch, stays on because both switches need to close, rises to close the first switch, then the water stays off until it drops below the second (lower) switch. I think some older thermostats used this type of principle to keep the AC/heat from constantly going on-off as the temp fluctuated slightly.

Don't know about the solenoid, just obviously anything with brass in it should go before the filter. I got mine from Mcmaster-Carr, but I have no idea what the number is. It's all on that monstro thread on reefcentral from a couple of years back "DIY auto top off with solenoid". As far as pre-filter pressure goes, you're looking at residencial line pressure, which I believe never exceeds 75 psi; probably quite a bit lower, and I'm sure any plumber could tell you.

Good luck!

[jaded]

I would have no problem using a timer and solenoid if thats a better/safer way to do it... please explain further

P.S. Thanks for the help so far!!!

[OldSalty]

Dont run the line in the attic unless you want HOT water in your tank in summer and cold in winter. plus in winter your line could freeze. My ro unit is connected to a fluidmaster toilet valve in a 5 gal bucket and gravity feed to a kent float valve in the sump. Less than 10 bucks to build. Has NEVER failed in the 5 years its been in operation. no pumps, soleniods or electricity. Why make a simple system so complicated with all this other stuff?? PM me and I can show you the SIMPLE way.

[jaded]

I dont have any room under the tank. The tank is on a wall in my living room... If my wife sees something like your explaining then I'm going to be in serious trouble.

I'm not sure what my best option is. I'd like to have a simple system but I cant figure a way to do it without making it complicated and running lines in the attic. I'm thinking that the temperature of the small amount of water in the lines wouldnt effect the 160+ gallons in the tank and sump, but I really dont know.

Wow I need advise!!! The closest place to store any quantity of water is in a closet of my guest bathroom, which is going to be pretty far away (Im geussing 40-50'). Of course I could put the RO/DI and water storage on my back porch but that would be bad news in the summer and winter.

[NaCl_H2O]

Ok, here is what I am working on ...

RO/DI has a pressure type auto shutoff solenoid (non-electric). If the RO/DI water output is restricted (float valve, ball valve, whatever) presure builds up on the output side of the RO/DI and shuts off the input side. However, I think these pressure type shutoff solenoids are only good for 90gpd and less?

My RO/DI output goes to multiple sources (e.g. water change barrels), but all but the topoff are usually closed off with a simple ball valve.

I have a Reef Fanatic (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RF-RFLC&Category_Code=Dosers) Level controller which switches on a 110v plug when the water is low.

I will be conecting an electric solenoid (http://www.autotopoff.com/products/S/index.htm) (normally closed) to the output side of the RO/DI with the solenoid plugged into the topoff controller.

When the controller senses that water is needed for topoff, the elecric solenoid will open releasing pressure on the RO/DI output side, which will release the pressure solenoid and input to the RO/DI will open. When the water level is back to normal, the controller will close the electric solenoid, causing pressure in the RO/DI output line and thus shutting off the input side to the RO/DI.

Now, a little more complexity. The output from the RO/DI will feed the input side of a sealed Kalk Reactor. Water flow into the Kalk reactor will force water through and out the reactor to top off the tank. With a DPDT relay, Kalk mixing will be turned on, via a small powerhead on the kalk reactor, whenever the electric solenoid is off/closed.

I am going to have Pete build the Kalk Reactor big enough for my system.

Make sense???

You are welcome to come se it once I get it all working.

[jaded]

Yeah that sounds very nice!!! I'd love to see it. So you actually have a solenoid on both in and out of the RO/DI...I like it!!!

[NaCl_H2O]

So you actually have a solenoid on both in and out of the RO/DI...I like it!!!

Well, yes, kinda ... the solenoid on the "input" side is the autoshutoff solenoid by Kent (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KENT-AUTO&Category_Code=kentroac) (and others). Not really on the "input" side, but it does shutoff the flow into the RO/DI - kinda hard to explain without showing you in person.

[jaded]

I'd love to come see it when its up and running... Hey I'd love to come and she that magnificent setup even without the auto topoff to look at!