SPS frags still no color

[bigdscobra]

From the last MAAST meeting I got my first sps to put in my 29g..

Most of the frags are still brown..

The light is a 175w MH 14,000k

I dont have a calcium reactor or dose kalk. I dose Bionc alk and cal everycouple of days and do 10% water change every two weeks.

How long till the frags start to color up and would a kalk or calcium reactor make a difference???

This weekend I am thinking about starting to dose with kalk..

Any suggestions????

Thanks
Dan

[RobertG]

Dont dose kalk unless you need to. After 12-13 days I would not expect anything to change. It takes a few more weeks to really start to see something.

A reactor would help you with all the trace elements & of course pump that calcium up without dosing. I personally dont have time to dose. I have one & love it. One of the best things to have. IMO. Kalk will help bring the ph up aswell raise cal. pretty quickly. In a 29G tank I would be very careful how you does kalk.

What are the perameters of your tank?

HTH

[CD]

From the last MAAST meeting I got my first sps to put in my 29g..

Most of the frags are still brown..


Do you have polyp extention on the coral? Would there be any way you could post a pic and your water params.?

W.

[TexasTodd]

Dan, you put sps acros in your tank pretty darn early. 6 months is pretty much the norm before you add these to a brand new setup.

Can you take some pictures? What sps frags are they?

14kk will work fine.

TT

[TexasTodd]

What are your ph, alk, and CA readings? Min and max temp?

Sps corals can easily take 4-6 weeks to color back up after a stressful event.

TT

[bigdscobra]

Temp stays 80-82
Alk reads normal
PH 8.2-8.4
dont have a CA test
NO3-NO2-NH3/NH4 no traces

[bigdscobra]

Some pics of the SPS that first one isnt as green anymore. But you can see the polyps extension.

http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12016&sta rt=0

I know the candycane and the purple monipora but dont know the other two.

I would rather do a CA reactor so i dont have to worry about dosing..Can you make a small one reactor for these tanks?? I have about 60-65g through out the tanks...

[Tim Marvin]

If those are 175 moguls you probably don't have enough light. I would check and keep the Alk on the high side. Digitata grows well and lives through a lot, but gets it's intense color from higher light. I have found 250w DE halides to work best for my applications. My digi is intense green, purple, and orange/peach colored. Oh, I have also started dosing Mag and keeping it in the higher range also, I've noticed a remarkable improvement in growth and color.

[TexasTodd]

The light depends on how deep the corals are and how high the lights are.

I think the main problem is they haven't had enough time yet. Although Monti D doesn't take as long as other sps's to recover.

TT

[Tim Marvin]

Well, from my experience, I have run 150's, 175's, 250's, 400's both mogul and DE in the past and I have had the best results from the 400's. I get very good results from the 250 DE's though which is why I use them now for the lower wattage and cooler runnning temp. I have poor results running the 175's and 150's over SPS as far as color is concerned. I have run all of these variations from 5 inches away from the corals to 20 inches. All corals react differently, but the digitata always seemed to look best in a more intense light. Running digitata under less than 250w seemed to brown out, or just have a purple color right on the tips.

[bigdscobra]

So should i use a 250w i have the balast but no bulb??

What about the Kalk or CA reactor???

[Tim Marvin]

You can run a tank fine without the reactors, it just takes more work on your part.

[Snausages01]

What brand bulbs are you using?

When conditions are right, corals will start to color up within a few weeks time (2 weeks), but won't get their 'true' colors until a while longer (just depends on the coral though).

If B Ionic is working for you and you don't have a problem with the dosing then stick with that. The other major thing in an SPS tank is flow; it can really dictate the croals heath/happiness.

[witecap4u]

I agree that he needs more time. I have a misc. acro that has been in the tank for 4 months I guess(since meeting out by CB pets FEB?) and its still pretty much brown except on the areas that have grown out they are a nice blue color. Give it some time dude, it'll come around.

cs

[Tim Marvin]

Whitecap, if you can make a small frag off it I would like to try it in my tank to see what happens. I'd be happy to give you a frag in return. It will be interesting to see if it colors up faster, slower, or not at all.

[witecap4u]

I'll see if I can snap off a piece of it, are you going to be around today?

cs

[Tim Marvin]

Yes I'll be around off and on. Give me a call.

[Tim Marvin]

OK, guys and gals here is a shot of how it looks today. I'll post another shot in a week and then two so we can see if there is a change.

[TexasTodd]

Dan, here's a link to an RC thread that has tons of pics of sps tanks grown with 175w MH. You may need to bump UP to a 10kk bulb. Best on your ballast would be the EVC 175w 10kk from oceanencounter.com

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=617721

Good luck,

Todd

[brewercm]

Todd,
Have you used any of the EVC tech bulbs from there? I've bought ballasts and all kinds of stuff from them but not those bulbs yet. Interested in how they are compared to XMs.

Thanks,
Cliff

[TexasTodd]

I haven't Cliff. But there's this guy, doesn't really know much about lighting, and knowbody knows who he is, but he said they have the highest PAR rating of any 10kk bulb when driven by a magnetic ballast.

His name is Sanjay Joshi ;)

He has switched to these bulbs on the Penn State Reef tank and was super impressed. The XM 10kk is still better if you are running an HQI ballast. The EVC 10kk run about 8500 Kelvin on the magnetic ballast

The XM 10kk run about 13000 Kelvin on the HQI type ballast.

So, IMO the XM 10kk with HQI ballast are best for color and par and cost. But if you have a standard magnetic ballast then the EVC 10kk are the "best". You might want to add some attenic lighting to the EVC as 8500 Kelvin doesn't have a ton of blue in it.

To give a comparrison the Ushio 10kk's actually run about 7500 Kelvin. A Radium 20kk run on an HQI ballast puts light out at about 13000 Kelvin also, but they are expensive bulbs and only last 6 months when run on the HQI ballast.

So, it really depends on which ballast you have.

Todd

[brewercm]

Ahhh, hadn't seen any of his latest works and light comparisons.
I hadn't tried them yet but I'd be running them on an ARO elect ballast. Need to go check out his newest stuff.

Thanks

[bigdscobra]

Todd,

I got the VHOs that Alex was selling the 220w one antic and one 50/50 these are 48in long so it will cover both tanks. The 175w MH was going to be moved over the angler tank for softies, and the put a 250w MH 10k XM over the reef tank. hopefully ======TONS OF GROWTH :skeezy

What do you think about that set up???

Thanks
Dan

[TexasTodd]

Sounds great Dan! Nice combo.

Watch the water temp. ;)

Todd

[Tim Marvin]

Bad picture, but here is an update.

[Tim Marvin]

It is almost all green and blue now.

[GaryP]

I believe that the 420 nm spectrum has a big impact on color development as well. That's one reason I like the XM 10K bulbs. The XM 10K mogul bulbs have a huge 420 nm peak. The 14K and 20K bulbs peak over in the 460 nm area.

[bigdscobra]

Well I guess I need to buy those bulbs.. :shades

[Richard]

Tim, So what lighting did you put that frag under and what lighting was it under before?

[Tim Marvin]

I'm not sure of the other lighting, but I have it under 250w coralvue 10k DE halides and 4 T-5 actinics, also coralvue.

[Reef69]

Sorry, just found this thread, and one of my corals have turned brown (a bit worried)..Is it all because of light or because of trace elements?..or both?!..I have 2x250 wat MH's..14Ks, could it be that i havent changed them since december??. Anybody knows whenre i can get a cheap, but reliable CA. reactor?..any comments help, thanks!

[schoeplein]

MH bulbs typically have a 6mo lifetime, right?

[Reef69]

Someone told me a year..im completely clueless when it comes to light..

[Reef69]

I have coralvue, 250 watt SE

[::pete::]

Who said ... (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=599123&perpage=25&highl ight=photo%20period&pagenumber=1) change the bulbs every 10-12 months? Sanjay uses them for years.

[Reef69]

Im not a reefing guru..LOL..i guess Ill just supplement with a T5 retro or something..

[JimD]

What temperature Coravue bulb and what ballast are you using?

[Reef69]

temperature?..lol (sorry)..its an electronic ballast..(i think)...

[JimD]

Yeah, like 10k, 14k, 20k... Is the ballast heavy? Whos the manufacturer? What are you keeping in the tank?

[Reef69]

14K..250 watt..heavy?..I dont think so..Coralvue..acros..caps..digis..

[JimD]

Id say, that with that comination, you should get a year or more out of it. Are you looking to suppliment with actinics? If so, imo, you cant beat vho's, I just replaced mine after three and a half years...

[bigdscobra]

This last week I finally wired up the 250w MH over the reef tank and moved the 175w MH over the angler tank I also have had the VHOs in the canopy too one a antinic and the other 50/50, about to change both to antinic blue as soon as the bulb comes in. The 250w bulb is a XM 20k about a year old so we will see if it makes a difference.

[Reef69]

Thanks Jim..care to point me in the right direction as to where to find a VHO retro..??..i would really appreciate it..and also a Ca. reactor.. :blink

[JimD]

I normaly get that kind of stuff from Premium Aquatics unless I can get an LFS to match the online price. For me, Gary at AquaDome can usually come close, at least within a buck er two.

[Reef69]

Do T5's do the same job as VHO's?

[JimD]

Do the same job? Lights light I guess. Ive nver used T5's myself, even still, given a choice, Id go with VHO's because I know what they do for my personal tanks. Theres a few folks here that use T5's excusively and seem to like them, Like Donny, 360reef, and Tim Marvin.

[Reef69]

..The same job as to supplement..

[::pete::]

Tim is going all T5 so its really a preference. I use VHO's and have never had a problem with them.

[Reef69]

Ok..now, LOL..whats a calcium reactor?..LOL..

[::pete::]

It is a reactor that hold media to keep your parameter in check as well as replace trace elements. Thats the simple mans definition :D .


A Calcium reactor is an important part of most any reef system. All stony corals, and some other critters like snails and conchs need calcium. While you can use CaCl2 or balanced additives, this is costly, time consuming and error prone. Investing in a high quality calcium reactor is an excellent way to get rid of the additives.

The reactor works by dissolving CO2 in to the tank water passing though the unit. This lowers the pH inside the reactor which dissolves some of the crushed calcium media, releasing calcium in to the tank water. The main chamber has a pump on it which draws in water from the tank or sump and recirculates it in a closed loop. There is a tap off out the output of this pump that flows a small amount of water to the second chamber.

The second chamber raises the pH of the tank water before it is returned to the tank, thereby using up a little more of the CO2 making the system more efficient.

[JimD]

I really is a matter of preferance. Some people have reported that the T5's dont flouresce the corals as well as VHO's, this makes sense to me because of the difference in tube diameter, more area, more phospher...

[Reef69]

Thanks Pete..where can I get 1?..are they easy to install and maintain??

makes alot of sense Jim..i guess ill be going with VHOs