Palytoxins

[Thunderkat]

Are there any types of zoos that are not poisonous?

I was reading my book on inverts and all the zoos in there except one say to be careful because they have palytoxins.

There is one zoo that does not have anything mentioned on it about palytoxins. It instead says that some shrimp and sundial snails will eat this polyp and its the kind I have. The one I have is the Green Sea Mat type. I believe its called Zoanthus sociatus.

My zoos are doing very well and look very healthy but if they are as poisonous as the critters with palytoxins I have found online I don't want them in my tank.

[CD]

We've got a LOT of zoas and palys in our tank with no adverse effects. I think the reference books are right about warning people of the neuro toxins in zoas and palys, because when you frag them - if you are not REALLY careful - you can squirt juice in your eyes, or get it in an open wound, etc. SO, needless to say, I wouldn't do any fragging while the polyps are still in the tank. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry.

BTW - get those sundials out of your tank! :o

Oh, and yes...some have more toxins than others. ;)

W.

[Thunderkat]

I have the sun dial in a little container outside of my aquarium. At this point I am considering giving it vitamin B12 to make it super hungry then putting it back in with the zoos. :lol

The zoos are very pretty and growing very nicely, however with all the toxins in them maybe I should just take them back to where I bought them and see if I can get store credit. I don't mind poisonous animals provided they don't exude the poisons in their mucous or secrete it in the water.

One article said that zoos may absorb the poison secreted by dinoflagellets and use that (kind of like the poisonous frogs that get their venom from the ants they eat and don't make any of their own). Maybe they did do some good in my tank when I had the dinoflagellete outbreak. That might be why the dinos didn't hurt anything in my tank. Who knows though.

[CD]

provided they don't exude the poisons in their mucous or secrete it in the water


They don't release their toxins into the water...it's OK...really! Keep your zoas and enjoy! ;)

W.

[Thunderkat]

Maybe I am stressing this too much but this is why:



Palytoxin was first isolated from the soft coral Palythoa toxica. Several species of Palythoa are used in aquariums, but do not produce the toxin. Originally, it was only found in a single tidal pool on the island of Maui in Hawaii and native Hawaiians used to coat spear points with a red seaweed from the pool. Toxin-containing corals appear to be randomly and sparingly distributed throughout the South Pacific and there is now a school of thought that suggests that the coral is simply concentrating the toxin made by a dinoflagellate (a small single-celled organism) called Ostreopis siamensis.


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Agent Properties
Palytoxin is the most toxic natural product known , it is estimated that the lethal dose for a human is less than five micrograms.


Mabye the kind I have are completly safe but I did just have a dino outbreak which is why I am worried.

By the way I am not scared of them, I just went through last night and looked for more sun dials. I am worried if my girlfriend comes through and messes with them while I am gone (she feeds my fish when I am away) or she brings some or her younger cousins over and they stick their hands in my temporary tanks (my tanks are NOT child proof).

[dwdenny]

Worryt that the toxins are causing th dinp outbreak?
I am planning an all Zoanthid tank. I will make sure to wear glovers( the palpation glove from tip of finger to the shoulder) when I am working in the tank. Go to RC and in the Zanthid forum there is a sticky with the toxin information.

[Alamo]

Dont drink the MAAST coolaid :P

[Thunderkat]

Ok, I saw something really cool this morning in my temporary tank. I saw a baby mushroom grown ON the side of one of my large zoo polyps. :lol

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. Maybe the zoo didn't like it though because it broke off the rock and I saw both the host zoo and the baby mushroom floating around in the current.

If the mushrooms don't mind the "poison" then they must be pretty safe, however you will not catch me eating a zoo salad anytime soon.

[don-n-sa]

The thing that you need to remember Thunder is just about every living thing in the ocean has some sort of toxin as a defense...especially invertebrates. If you pull everthing out that has these defenses then you might end up with a bare tank. ;)

[Thunderkat]

Yeah I realize this, that is why my temporary tank is going to be my zoos permanent tank. The zoos will not make it back into my main tank.

The mushrooms will make it back to the main tank. The mushrooms are growing on small rocks so its easy to move. Only one of the mushrooms is going to be hard to move. One of the mushroom rocks has a sponge growing on half of it so I have to move it submerged.

[jaded]

TK... this is just my opinion, but I think you may be overly concerned about the toxins. I'm not saying that there aren’t things in our tanks that can damage or kill... but that’s nature. If you shy away from everything that produces toxins you will most certainly end up with a whole wall of "temp" tanks with a single species in each. If that fits your picture of a great tank then you are on the right track, but if you would like to have a small sample of the living reef then you will undoubtedly have to mix different species together.

I have seen zoos in every sort of tank. I myself have a zoo colony that has recently allowed an arrant blue mushroom to grow right up through them. I've got an SPS, next to leathers, a hammer only inches away and they are all surrounded by zoos. If they seem to be bothering one another I will move them or change the flow of water. If I don’t take care of it they will…

You should make the tank that you picture in your mind as the "perfect tank". If that means no mixing then I say “go for it”, but if you want something more like nature then don’t be afraid to mix the species that others have had success mixing. You might find that micro managing the reef is a big part of the fun of it!!!

just my 2¢

[schoeplein]

Supposedly the most fatal poison is created by a bacteria that thrives in an anemone that flourishes only in one part of Hawaii...

The only thing I'm scared of is the puffer at Horizon Pets biting my finger off or a lion stinging me... everything else is pretty tame (in other words, human safe). ;)

[GaryP]

Hino,

Seriously, the only time you need to be concerned is when you are fragging them. Ypu've seen my tanks. They are both covered with zoos and palys. I've handled them hundreds of times. If you are concerned, just wear safety glasses and gloves when and if you are fragging them. The gloves are a good idea anytime you are handling corals, both for your own protection as well as the coral's. There are some nasty, potentially pathogenic, bacteria that grow on corals.

[thedude]

Mushrooms are really in the anemone family and can sting and release toxins as well. Like Gary said, just be reasonable and you'll have no problems. You start fragging with open cuts and no gloves, then you'll probably get hurt.

[GaryP]

Just don't do an Anthony Calfo and stick anything in your mouth while fragging them.