Coralline vs Hair Algae

[Thunderkat]

Now that I seem to be getting this cyano under control I am running across other problems.

Hair algae

Its growing ON my macro algae (and pretty much everywhere else) and I also seem to have two different types of hair algae, one is slightlty thicker and a little hollow with a blueish tinge, the other is very thin and green.

The only way I can think of beating the hair algae (its not as bad of problem as the cyano was because at least the hair algae looks nice) is by having tons of coralline algae to beat the hair algae.

I bought some of the reef dna stuff (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=MV1153) and it claims to make coralline algae to grow faster than hair algae but it says I need to add calcium and Sr to the water while using.

Any thoughts or links?

[Polkster13]

I am assuming that the maker of this product also has handy dandy little suppliments for Calicum and Sr as well? I use to try and "cook" my aquariums by adding this and adding that (of course, I wasn't testing for the lack of any of these additives as I was told I just needed to have them added) and it was very difficult to get the tank stable. I finally gave up and just did partial water changes and it was amazing the results I then achieved. If you are truely using up something in the tank AND can document it, then adding additives for replacement may be warranted. Otherwise, stick to PWC using RO water and you will be fine. Also make sure you have plenty of herbivores in the tank, you're not over-feeding and you're siphoning out the "gunk" when you do a PWC.

Have you tested for Phosphates, Nitrates and Silicates? These are the three primary sources of food used by algaes and cynobateria.

How old are your Light bulbs? Old bulbs will encourge algae growth as they tend to shift to the green and red spectrum as they age.

[Polkster13]

If you are not dripping Kalc, you might want to consider that. If you have a sump, drip the Kalc into that and not directly into your tank. Kalc has a very high pH. That will help greatly in getting the coraline algae to spread quickly.

[Thunderkat]

No, the makers of that product did not recommend any type (and I didn't see any by that brand either) of Sr or calcium, it just said I would need to add.

I am also leery about adding chemicals (even stuff like vitamins) because I am sure that could wipe out all the life in my tank. Just like polar bear meat is poisonous and can kill you because it has so much vitamin A in it. the reef dna stuff just claimed to make nutrients more bio-available so thats why more would need to be added as they get consumed more.

I don't have very much coralline algae in my tank so I don't think I am to that point yet.

I don't have a sump yet but I just got a reply from marine depot with all the stuff I will need to put a sump into my aquarium, I sent them a list of the things I thought I would need and I had almost everything except things like fittings.

Here is what marine depot sent me on the sump:


Thank you for contacting us.

1. CPR CS90 overflow box (does this come with the sponge?)



No, the sponge is separate, and costs $3.00:

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CR1591







2. CPR 1 1/4 inch hose (how long is this hose?)



Approximately 4 feet





3. Berlin Sump 23x10x12 (with the set up here can it be used to grow macroalgae?)



Any sump can be setup to grow macroalgae





4.Mega-drive supreme 7 700 gph water pump (has to pump up 48" height, is this too much flow? I don't need it to supply current in the tank as I already have a Tunze 6060 and I don't want too much that it will damage macro algae). What do I need to connect it to the tubing?



The mag drive 7 will be just fine, you will need a barb fitting to place a hose on it:

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=FT6933







5. 1/2in felxible tubing black/ft (I saw several different types and not sure if this is the best) I need 5 feet, the tank is 48 inches high from bottom of stand to the top of the aquarium)

Any ½ inch flexible tubing will do





6. Swing check valve -1/2in (I want two, one to server as a back up in case the first fails)

You only need one, and an additional one will slow down the flow rate further





7. Aqua lifter vacuum pump aw-20 TOM (I only put this on here as your site recommended it, what will I need it for and what other tubing do I need to go with this, more info as to why I would need would be awesome).



This is to prime and void air bubbles from the cpr overflow box-highly recommended





8. U-tube with directional return 1/2in - 3/4in what connectors will I need to go with this?



All you need is a hose clamp



9. Ball Valve - 1/2in FPT x 1/2in FPT what do I need to connect the ball valve to the tubing?

Two male fpt barb fittings:

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=FT7333

that seems to be a complete list J

“How full does the sump get during normal operation?”



That depends on how much water you put in the system-normally you want enough to cover the pump, so it doesn’t suck air-about 6” of water.



Here you will find some handy links to wet/dry and overflow explanations, as found in our website’s education center:

https://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_marine_depot_educational_newsletter_artic les__index.asp?CartId=



Tell me more about this kalk, have never used it or seen it for sale.

Yeah, I need more patience but time is also a factor, I only have about a year left in San Antonio. Why build one and work on it only to leave soon? Been told that for 8 years I have been in navy, this command has been my first chance to have anything nice and I love keeping fish, have been doing it since I was a kid.

[Thunderkat]

Also, this is the kind of salt (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4864&js_enabled=0 ) I use.

[Polkster13]

A Guide to Kalk (http://www.simplifiedreefkeeping.com/faq/17.htm)

[GaryP]

IMO, hair algae will never out compete coralline. Its a "hare vs. tortoise" situation. Corraline simply isn't able to grow as fast as hair algae. However, other macros such as caulerpa and chaetomrpha are able to grow rapidly. That's why we have fuges.

[Tim Marvin]

Switch to IO or Oceanic salt, do the 25% water changes per week as suggested and drip lots of kalk, (or the homemade kalk solution) this should have you under control in a few months. You probably have a high nutrient load in the tank and all the pollution is acting like fertilizer for the hairs.

[gjuarez]

Have to agree with Tim on this one. I would even use a combination of both to have a better combination of alk and calcium. Hair algae doesnt appear because there is a lack of coralline algae, but rather an excess of nutrients. It is tough to grow coralline algae with high nutrients too. What are your water parameters? Like mentioned before, i would do frequent water changes to take away all the nutrients and starve that algae to death.

[greasemonkey]

It is tough to grow coralline algae with high nutrients too.

Really? So if your coralline is growing good, would you say thats a sign that your nutrients are low?

[Tim Marvin]

Coralline grows well under fairly low nutrients and good calcium levels. I have found dripping kalk grows coralline very well.

[NaCl_H2O]

Noticed you joined MAAST in late March - How long has you tank been up? You may be dealing with normal algae/nutrient cycles that just need to run their course.

[Tim Marvin]

It is tough to grow coralline algae with high nutrients too.

Really? So if your coralline is growing good, would you say thats a sign that your nutrients are low?

Not always, but very likely your nutrient levels are on the lower side. You can feed heavily and still have low nutrients if your tank has very well established critters and bacterial colonies.

[gjuarez]

I said it was tough to grow coralline algae with high nutrients, I didnt say it was impossible. Instead of tough I should have used tougher. My Bad. Kalkwasser worked wonders for me, and it wasnt until I dripped it into my tank that the coraline took off. B-Ionic helped a lot too. Do you dose anything to your tank?

[Thunderkat]

My aquarium has been running for about a year but I recently added a few more pounds of live rock and as soon as my sump arrives I will be adding a few more pounds of live rock.

I plan on having my sump full of live rock and having lights on for 24/7 on it to hopefully grow mass amounts of cyano and algae in there so it will not be in my main tank.

I agree to that my nutrient load may be high, I have have a cleaner wrasse in there and a recently added algae blenny. My cleaner wrasse is nothing more than a miniture pig with fins and lives underwater. I feed it tiny amounts 3 times a day and it eats every last bit of flake food (it does not eat mysis) and is still looking for more and looking for any pieces that may have made it to the bottom of the tank. I don't make any allocation for food for the algae blenny because its belly is always full and its has plenty to eat in my tank.

Last time I checked I had 0 nitrates and 0 nitrites and 0.009 ammonia but that was a few days after adding my new live rock. Zero nitrates and nitrites may be due to algae and cyano.

[Polkster13]

If you have zero nitrates, then the tank has not completely cycled or you have a bad test kit. Nitrates will always be in the water after a tank has cycled. You got an ammonia spike because of adding the new LR. You will have a Nitrite spike next and then the Nitrates will start coming up. Nitrates can be kept at a low level but I have never heard of them staying at zero. Plant consumption and the denitrification process will use up nitrates, but typically in an aquarium, these two processes never use up all of the nitrates.

[GaryP]

I somehow doubt whether nutrients are high or low is the real issue with coraline growth. I think other algaes simply out compete the coraline for space and nutrients in a high nutrient scenario. Often I have seen other algaes growing on top of the coraline, either choking it out or preventing it from getting any light.

I just went through a bad period in my tank where I had a strange turf algae overgrowing my live rock and dinoflaggelates on the glass. After I finally got it under control the live rock is almost bare of coraline. It has taken off now and I'm having a hard time keeping my calcium and alkalinity at a high enough level to maintain the growth. Its just soaking it up. Of course my SPS is not happy with this either. I built a some new auto dose jugs this weekend and I plan on constantly dripping either Kalk, calcium chloride, or buffer to maintain the levels. This will have to do until I can get a calcium reactor built that is capable of handling the demand.

I dripped about a 1/4 lb. of calcium chloride (in solution of course) to get my calcium level from 395 to 450 ppm yesterday. This was on top of the 2 gal. of Kalk water I also had dripped the day before.

[Polkster13]

Hey Gray,

What is Live "Lock"? I am not familar with that? Got any pictures? :P

[GaryP]

Its sorta live rock, but you have to get it from a locksmith.

With a drip there may not have been a highly noticeable "white out." The precipitation may have occured over a period of hours until the alkalinity was low enough that the higher calcium levels was able to be supported. I accidently got my calcium level to about 1000 once. My alkalinity was really low. I slowly brought it down with buffer. If I had been using B-Ionic I would have been bankrupt by now. As I said, it seemed like the pumps took a lot of the precipitate out and I got really good at de-scaling them over the next month or so. Of course, if you add a ton of buffer at one time you will have a white-out.

FYI, scaling often takes place in pumps first because the pressure change as water goes through the pump impellor often triggers the precipitation reaction. The calcium and carbonate reaches a super saturated state and as soon as a seed crystal is formed it catalyzes the reaction. These scale deposits can be cleaned out by soaking them in vinegar and then getting the rest of it with a toothbrush. The bacterial film in the pump also plays a role in the precipitation reaction and often a bacterial/scale complex is formed. The carbohydrate slime layer surronding the bacteria acts as a substrate for scale crystallization.

Interestingly enough, many mineral deposits are similarly attributed to this bacterial role in crystallization. Deep sea manganese nodules is one example that comes to mind.

[Thunderkat]

If we start harassing folks for their typos I'm a dead man. :lol

Tell me about this drip system you have, how do you set it up? I have my new sump and the stuff for it in the mail on the way to me so I imagine I can add a drip system if it will fit under my tank.

What do you guys and gals usually test for in your tank? I would like to know what other tests I need to get my hands on. Right now I only have a cleaner wrasse, a algae blenny, some mushrooms, some zoos, and live rock in my tank. I don't think I will ever add any of the hard corals in my tank so keep that in mind when recommending tests. The only things I plan on adding to my tank in the future are more live rock for my sump when it arrives, some xenia, a colt coral, and possibly 2 small clown fish.

I have been working really hard on my tank using the suggestions you wonderful peeps have been giving me and slowly but surely its paying off. ^_^

Oh by the way, I lost my oscillaris clown that I had in my hospital tank Sunday morning while I was a church. :( The brooklynosis ate it :(

[GaryP]

Let me know if you want to come over and see my set up.

As for tests, I would suggest (at a minimum) - pH, ammonia, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium.

[Polkster13]

Well Gary is pretty good about his typing. However, he spelled it that way TWICE in two sentences and the "L" is no where near the "R" key. I guess he was just too ingrossed in what he was doing and missed it. I see he has fixed one but he still missed the other one. :unsure :roll

Besides as President of the GaryP fan club, I do get some benefits like razzing him on occasion! However, if you do it, I'll be all over you like... Well let's not go there. :)

[GaryP]

What typo? I don't see no stinkinnnnnnn typo.

[CD]

as President of the GaryP fan club,


But, but...I thought *I* was president of the GaryP fan club... :cry Ah well, VP will do :lol

Wendy

[Polkster13]

Well I see it took you four edits to get it right. :skeezy :lol :lol :innocent

[GaryP]

Actually, I always have other thoughts I add after I post something. It comes from rushing through a long post to get it submitted before I time out. A lot of my posts are edited. Now, if you want to volunteer to be my editor, I'll just start PM'ing all my post to you first. I know you don't have much else to do for 16 hrs. a day.

[Polkster13]

ROTFLOL.

Hint: On long posts, do them in Word and then cut and paste. You can also do spell and grammer check on the post before posting. That won't catch everything, but will catch most misspellings and bad grammer.

Hmmmm. I have not had a problem with timing out. I know Wendy (CD) has also experienced this. I am using Mozilla Firefox at work and Safari at home on my iMac mini. Have not had any problems with either one. Have you mentioned this to Chris?

[GaryP]

I just copy it into buffer before I hit submit. The new version allows to back arrow to the post. The old version didn't. Old habits die hard though. I have done posts on Word or notepad in the past.

[Polkster13]

What bugged me for the longest is I would type up a long reply and then click the "Post Reply" icon instead of the Submit icon. The back arrow would then erase my post. Ugh! :angry

Now the Submit icon is in bold and the "Post Reply" icon is on the other side and not as apparent. Haven't made that mistake in quite some time now.

[CD]

Have not had any problems with either one. Have you mentioned this to Chris?


He had this issue fixed (for me anyway) for a short while when he had the site set to refresh every few minutes or so. However, it was causing problems for other people, so....

Wendy

[GaryP]

Getting back to the original topic, IMO there are a lot of ways that you can control hair, and other nuisance, algaes, but the basis for all of them is controlling the nutrients in the water through physical and chemical filtration.

It all comes down to removing as much nutrients from the systems as you put in, in the form of food.