What is up with this salt!

[z28pwr]

I filled up my tank with Oceanic Salt and I've been trying to raise the PH for a week now and after 2 pounds worth of Kent Super Buffer DKH the PH is barely at 8.1. At this rate I'm better off buying Instant Ocean and dosing Calcium. I thought maybe my PH monitor is off and checked the PH with a test kit and got the same reading. Could something else be out of whack or does it really take that much buffer?

Thanks.

[TexasTodd]

Don't use that salt. Way too many reports of inconsistent mixes from the factory.

If the CA is super high it takes MANY times more buffer to raise your ph. They have a relationship affecting each other.

What is your ALK at now, you'd better check it. Check the CA too.

I use IO, add Kalkwasser for my makeup and add some Mg since it's a little low in this mix.

Todd

[don-n-sa]

Don't use that salt. Way too many reports of inconsistent mixes from the factory.
Todd

here we go again :wacko

[scuba_steveo]

that's what I was thinking too.

[Dozer]

Lol. Death, taxes, DSB vs. bare bottom and problems with Oceanic.

I just read that 500 page thread on Reef Central last night (I know, get a life!). I've been using Oceanic for the last year or so, and after reading that huge thread........I'm still going to continue using it :) . I've been personally happy with it.

[alexwolf]

i love it!!!

[don-n-sa]

LOL X 2 !!!

Todd has an awesome SPS tank so he is obviously doing something right , and there has been just too many reports of some " inconsistent batches " of oceanic in the past to just ignore it. IMO if you are going to do an SPS dominated tank then you might want to CONSIDER going with another brand until everthing settles down.

I know...how about this, I will keep using it and hopefully run all of the "inconsistent" batches out of circulation so everyone can switch back to oceanic again. Oceanic seems to be the most readily available and it mixes so well. After its all said and done then Oceanic will probably be the most consistent because of all the attention it has recieved on this. :D

[::pete::]

I have it in my 100 and my 180 (@3 weeks now) I have no problem getting the PH to where it should be.

[BIGBIRD123]

I don't sh*t with mine and haven't had my Ca reactor on for two months and mine stays at 8.2. Best salt I've ever used!

Steve

[Dozer]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say there aren't some concerns, I was more laughing at the huge threads on RC about it.

I think it depends on what you're concerned about. If you're concerned about the high calcium low alkalinity, and you really don't like that, seems to me it's not a good salt for you. I'm just barely getting into any SPS, so for my previous FOWLR+few softies tank, Oceanic was perfect because it had plenty of calcium to get some coralline and trace elements and stuff in a tank that's not really using up much Calcium. I think that's what Oceanic's target audience was, NOT serious reefs. That said, if you have a system that needs a ton of calcium, to the point that you're adding calcium with a reactor or something, seems to me Oceanic might be super frustrating. I'll likely continue using it as long as I can get by with Oceanic and dripping Kalk. If the day ever comes where I need to add more calcium, I would seriously consider changing to IO or something like that (not change for sure, but I'd really consider it).

However, some of the other problems reported (Oceanic caused a sudden incredible brown algae explosion 10 minutes after doing a 10% water change with it!) I'm a little skeptical about. Not that it's not possible, I'm just skeptical.

[z28pwr]

I really wish the admins woudn't have moved this thread since I was trying to get some help on getting the PH at the right level since I've already poured 2 lbs worth of Buffer and want to see what's going on before I pour more buffer or change the salt, maybe I shouldn't have put that subject line but I've never had to dump so much buffer in any salt before. Unfortunately I don't have an Alkilinty kit and Alex sold his last one :( .

[don-n-sa]

I think Gary p. can help on this one... Hey...Gary...psst...Gary!! Wake up!!!

[don-n-sa]

I really wish the admins woudn't have moved this thread :( .

I am sorry if I contributed to the reason that this was moved.... :blink

[Richard]

Don't use that salt. Way too many reports of inconsistent mixes from the factory.


Hey somebody finally agrees with me LOL. Oh well, we all have our preferences.

To be fair to oceanic...
What is your Ca level?
What is your alkalinity?

If your calcium is way high and your alkalinity low then you are probably precipitating out your carbonates due to the very high calcium levels of oceanic salt. In that case, I would suggest doing some water changes with IO to bring Ca levels down to around 400-450 rather than adding buffer to precipitate out more Ca. IME things can get weird sometimes when you start doing that. "Weird" is a chemistry term for I don't know WTF is going on but I don't like it ;) . Water changes thereafter with oceanic should not cause that problem.

If your calcium and alkalinity are in a good range then you probably have an excess CO2 issue either from a Ca reactor, bioload, or elevated CO2 levels in the room. As a general rule, low ph with high alkalinity is always an elevated CO2 issue (I think there are some other very unlikely possibilities). Although 8.1 isn't really too low.

Here's a link to an article which has a chart of what the ph should be for a given alkalinity at normal(atmospheric) CO2 levels. It's a good read too if your interested in such things.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

[aquadoc]

I agree Putting that much buffer in one day, probably wacked out your tank.
I would test all the levels and adjust from there. Testing is always the best way to understand what is happening chemicaly in your tank.
Also I use Rea Sea on my SPS/LPS/Clam(S) tank. Never had a problem with any levels. Have notice noticable polyp exstention with use of Red Sea. Have had the best result growth/color wise with SPS epseacialy, when I switched to Red Sea from Instant Ocean. Never had Ph/buffer problems with Red Sea.

[alton]

Looking at all the post on this topic and the previous post I have come up with the following conclusion:
If you have SPS and are adding calcium use Oceanic
If you have Softies and LPS less Calcium use Kent
If you have softies and just fish use Instant Ocean
Instant Ocean was around in 1982 when I first tried and bombed a 55 gal Saltwater Tank (Under Gravel Filter), then came Kent and then Oceanic. I think with Manufactures it's based upon the idea more is better otherwise why would you switch? Some times more is not better. Does anybody remember Fritz Wet Salt?

[z28pwr]

The PH before I started dosing was 7.7 I poured about 1 pound of Kent Super Buffer DKH in about a 2 day period and it moved to about 8.2 then started dropping back down to 7.9, I added another pound in another 2-3 days (adding a little bit everyday) and it went up to 8.2 then it started dropping again. This morning it was at 8.0 .

I'm going to try to get an Alkilinity test kit today and see what the level is, I will also check the CA level.

[Dozer]

Sounds to me like the alkalinity could be the problem- at least that is one thing that could cause the pH to be so unstable. Also, are you testing the pH at the same time every day? What test kit are you using to test it?

Maybe Gary or one of the chem. gurus could chime in, but I'm pretty sure time of day makes a difference and I also want to say the home pH tests can sometimes fluctuate a lot too. But there are others here who should confirm or dispute that because I'm not positive.

[z28pwr]

Now, I'm really lost.

Temp 79.4 F
SG 1.021
CA 330
PH 8.0
AK 16+ DKH Went off the Salifert Scale.

WHAT in the world, how can I have a 16+ DKH and an 8.0 PH .

[Richard]

You dropped your Ca by adding all the buffer. I would suggest doing some water changes to bring things back in line. Use IO or IO/Oceanic mix.

Try aerating a cup of water outdoors for 15-20 minutes and then check the ph. That will tell you if there is a CO2 issue. In theory, it should be a excess CO2 problem as the article talks about but as I said things get weird once you start precipitating out CA, Mg and other elements.

[starboard]

I have to agree with Alton, I use Oceanic, and dose Kalk. SPS and clams grow like crazy! PH stays a solid 8.2-8.3 day or night.

[z28pwr]

You dropped your Ca by adding all the buffer. I would suggest doing some water changes to bring things back in line. Use IO or IO/Oceanic mix.

Try aerating a cup of water outdoors for 15-20 minutes and then check the ph. That will tell you if there is a CO2 issue. In theory, it should be a excess CO2 problem as the article talks about but as I said things get weird once you start precipitating out CA, Mg and other elements.

Thanks Richard, I'll give that a try.

[TexasTodd]

Z28power. These threads are all opinions and what people have pieced together. I made an opening statement because I believe it's the root of your problems. But, I also gave you advice to follow on checking parameters and how ca and alk can "play" with each other. I'm glad you checked with Alex on the alk kit. Is he the ONLY place in town that might have one? If I was having this problem I'd make it a point to find a kit or borrow one.

I agree with Donny, most problems I've heard of are associated with sps corals. "ression from the tips down" among other problems and the brown film on sand.

If your ph is at 8.1 that is not a problem given a normal reading on CA. If your finally up to 8.1 and your CA is at 700 you probably want to do something. :)

I use IO. It's cheap, consistent, and works for my set up.

I've read the threads and posts also on Oceanic. I don't see multiple threads doubting IO.

Z28 please get someone over with alk and ca test kits. The cardinal rule is "Don't does ANYTHING without a test kit to read the tank level on it".

Where are you located?

Todd

[TexasTodd]

Oops, posted from the first page!

Z28, what is your Mag level?

How big is your tank?

What are you keeping in it?

While you try to fix this problem you can try a longer photo period and keep any refigium lights on 24hrs. This will at least help keep the ph up some.

Was a new bucket of salt used for the last large water change?

Todd

[TexasTodd]

I filled up my tank with Oceanic Salt------------was this a brand new set up?

Just trying to look at all possibilities. Did you put the salt in and then add water?

I'm sure you probably didn't but wanted to check.

Todd

[z28pwr]

Todd, It's a brand new setup and the tank is a 380 gallon tank. Both buckets of Oceanic were brand new. I did find my Salifert Alkalinity test kit which showed 16+ DKH, I later bought another test kit from Alamo that showed over 16 DKH aswell therefore I'm going to do a massive water change (150 gallon) since I don't have any fish in there at the moment, just 200+ lbs of LR.

These are the parameters:

Temp 79.4 F
SG 1.021
CA 330
PH 8.0
AK 16+ DKH Went off the Salifert Scale.

[NaCl_H2O]

"Weird" is a chemistry term for I don't know WTF is going on but I don't like it ;)

lol, probably the only 100% factual statement in this thread :D

[Dozer]

I agree. Since Oceanic is high in Calcium and low in Alk., a large water change without adding any buffer seems to make sense.

[TexasTodd]

Now I'm really confused. "Both buckets of IO were brand new. " ?

I think you used Oceanic...yes?

Sounds like a good plan! IMO if you are going to have some sps in there you will want your SG up to around .024-.025 area. I'm not sure on softies.

Todd

[z28pwr]

Now I'm really confused. "Both buckets of IO were brand new. " ?

I think you used Oceanic...yes?

Sounds like a good plan! IMO if you are going to have some sps in there you will want your SG up to around .024-.025 area. I'm not sure on softies.

Todd

Yeah, I meant to say Oceanic. The tank will mostly be a FOWLR with the exception of a few Mushrooms and Zoanthids which I've kept before at 1.022 without a problem.