From Here to Paradise....

[falcondob]

Here begins the chronicle of my 300 gallon GlassCages Reef Tank. From dream to big, HEAVY, glass box to a piece of paradise......

Attention Newbies! First, understand that I consider myself and am, in fact, also a newbie. When you see this emoticon: >_< that will be your clue that you can learn from my stupid and/or ignorant mistakes. You have been warned. When you see this one: ;) , it is suggestion. When you see this one: :wacko , you are your own. This: 8) means a cool thing I learned. The others should be self-explanatory.

Ever since I went to Hawaii in 1995 and went snorkeling, I have wanted a saltwater tank (SW = saltwater 8)). I went to Florida in 2000, went scuba diving on the Pennekamp Reef, and that nailed it. However, I didn't have the time or the money to get going. It would have to wait.

Then someone gave me a 45gal hex they no longer wanted. I decided to try SW to see if I could pull it off. Other than the surprises of how much it would cost to get this "little" tank up and running >_< and that I needed to buy "rock" (I am sure we have all had to explain that one to a spouse.), everything went well. The family really enjoyed watching the inhabitants of the evermore crowded little tank.

With the success of the 45gal, I wanted a new tank, a bigger tank. How big? That was a good question. I was surprised to find that some people considered a 45gal, a Nano Tank :o. I looked on lots and lots of websites. There is a universe of info out there on the Internet. Read everything you can get your hands on before you get started. It will save you time and money ;). I found everthing from 1/2 gallon to people with 300 gallon fuges. The only recurring thread I could find in this maze was the fact that many people said they wish they had gone bigger. So, I decided to go big. What is big? What is too big? It became apparent that this was a function of money and space (Duh!) >_<.

I found a 210 gallon in Dallas, dashed off, and purchased it. In my haste, (I hate waiting, but SW is teaching me). I really did not take a good look at the tank. When I got it home, I knew it really wasn't what I wanted and I sold it. That little "look before leaping" cost me $400+ >_<. However, the people who bought it are delighted with it. You have to find the kind and size tank that works for you ;). This is to be a theme played over and over.

I continued to buy used tanks, sell them, and buy parts for the tank of the future. After looking around, I decided that GlassCages afforded me the best "bang for my buck". I started to get the 240g long, like Alex Wolf's personal tank. Alex's MAAST name is "alexwolf" and he owns the reef store "Wolf Reef" here in San Antonio. I liked the look of his tank and the price was about right. Then, I remembered all those people saying "I wished later I had bought bigger!". So, I bought the largest tank I could afford and also had room for. Ordering with Alex to split the shipping costs allowed me to get a 300 gallon, that seemed big in most people's book. I also upgraded to StarFire glass on three sides and a taller base. If you order from GlassCages or any vendor a long distance from where you live, try and buy with someone. The net cost of shipping is less per person when multiple people order 8).

If you have never seen a tank with StarFire glass, it really gives you the impression of a wall of water. I truly believe that the money I spent for it was well spent.;). The size of the tank is called the "300 gal wide", measurements are 96 x 30 x 25 tall. I bought this one because one of the tanks I purchased was deeper than 25 inches and reaching rocks and critters on the bottom was "challenging" >_<. Also, the ability of the lights to penetrate the water decreases with depth. This is called the "par" of a bulb. The higher the par value, the deeper the light penetration 8). From discussions with other aquarists and reading online, I found that 24-25 inches seems to be a good compromise in depth. Your mileage may vary :wacko .

I also purchased the canopy and stand from GlassCages. This was mainly because I just did not want to mess with it. There are many skilled craftsmen and craftswomen in MAAST that could have custom built it. Pete (MAAST name ~pete~) has done some fantastic hoods, bases, and general installations. I could have even done it myself. I just elected to forego that and have it done with, I had other fish to fry (pun intended) ^_^. I also added 6 inches to their standard 24 inch high base. This was for my wife. She made the astute observation that you had to bend over or squat down to watch things in the 45 hex and it was not comfortable. Having it higher would help that ;). The downside is that it made the whole rig bigger than you would think >_<. The upside is that I have more "real estate" under the tank for goodies 8). Goodies are a good thing ;).

I sent GlassCages a large check and they started to build it :sick. (I don't think I have to explain that emoticon.) A few words about GlassCages. I am, personally, satisfied with the materials and workmanship in my tank. I have seen other items made by them that are not what would be expected from a hand-crafted item. I had issues with them being rude to me on the phone and not keeping me posted on the progress of the tank. Also, when they shipped it...well, we will leave that for the next post. So, at this point I would give them an A- for workmanship and D for customer service >_<. Overall, I still think the "bang for buck" priniciple applies.

So on April 18, 2005, I found out from the Overnite.com website, that my tank was in San Antonio. Finally!

Next post: "Oh My Gawd!!!!" or "Your putting that in MY house!!!"

[Sherri]

Oh, this is gonna be good....hehe :P

[demodiki]

Mommy this story doesn't have pictures!

[falcondob]

So, I had agonized over what size, type, and kind of tank to buy. I had bought and sold other tanks. I had made lots of mistakes. I had read and read. I had ask questions until people were running from me. I had sold assets and collected enough money to buy the tank I wanted. Purchased items such as skimmer, sump, pumps, lights, controllers, live rock, ad nauseum.... Now, the tank was here in San Antonio. Hurray!

I noticed this note on the Overnite.com website: Packages: 2 Total Weight: 1790. 1790!!! Being a reasonably smart kinda guy, I knew that meant heavy. Not just heavy, but HEAVY :sick. Read that to mean, I need help!!! :unsure

Alex said to put out the call on the MAAST forum for assistance in a tank move. I did just that and the response was immediate and overwhelming. Even those that couldn't come responded. Boy, what a great group of people.

Website says there are two packages. OK. One in my 10 passenger van and one in Alex's truck. Cool. Called Overnite.com to confirm. Yep, she can see our shipment sitting on the dock. More cool. One for me and one for Wolf Reef. Cooler yet. Sizes of packages, 8'L x 8'H x 3 1/2'W and 8'L x 4'H x 3 1/2'W. Coolness evaporates. 8 feet tall???? :blink That won't fit in my van! OK, calm down. Brad said he has a pickup. PM Brad. Coolness back. Brad can pick up one package and I can use Alex's truck for mine. Whew! :) Need to get beer, sodas, and pizza for these courageous and generous people. Need to get home and move some things around. Crap, got doctor's appointment :unsure. This is just like a wedding, except no grouchy women. Go get Alex's truck. Call Little Ceasar's Pizza. Whatta you mean you don't deliver anymore? Crap again :angry. Call Alex. Can you order pizza? You can? You da' man! :D

Arrive at Overnite on Rittiman Road. From here on things get a little hazy in my mind. I walk in, announce I am John Wilkes and three people jump up and run away. One guy gets up slowly, frowns, and walks into the warehouse. The nice lady says to pull my vehicle around to the side of the building where the docks are. Oh boy, here it comes. :w00t

Guy from warehouse comes out with package on forklift. Hah! Package is 4'W x 4'H x 6'L. Hah! Did they ever screw this up! No problem. Tell guy to put that pallet over there. We will put that in Brad's pickup. By the way, where is Brad? Call Alex, have him get Brad's number. Hey, Brad. Where ya' at buddy? Alex's Store? Poor Brad. I did a really lousy job letting him know that I needed him at the freight company. He is waiting for me at Alex's store. Ok, he is on his way. Cool coming back. Here comes the guy with the forklift....

Then I see this....

http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/aaa.jpg

Hmmm...That seems bigger than the first one.... Here it comes again....

http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/aab.jpg

ewww...That is bigger!!....
How much bigger? Oh My Gawd!!!

http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/aac.jpg

I have to drive this from East on Rittiman Rd to Bandera and 1604?!?!? Guys from freight company staring and laughing in background. I think I heard something about taking odds...not sure what that means.

Brad is thinking, "Man, am I glad I have Alex's shipment in my truck. Sure hope my knots hold or John-Boy's tank will be road decoration!"

We drive down Rittiman to Harry Wurzbach to I410 to Bandera to Alex's store. Drive VERY carefully. Making turns VERY slowly. If this falls off and lands on a VW it will squash it flat! In what seems like 3 days we arrive at Alex's store. Thank God for light traffic. Everybody outside looking at truck like, "What did he buy? The world's tallest private aquarium?" and "Oh no. We have to unload that don't we?".

We unload Alex's tanks. Consume some pizza, beer, and soda. Load up the good 'ole MAAST cart and blast off for John's crib. Good thing it is only 4-5 miles away.

Pull into driveway. Now drizzling pretty good. Nothing like moving a WET 900 pound aquarium. I wonder if my homeowner's insurance will cover this? Line of cars following me. Neighbors now sure that S.W.A.T. has finally arrived to bust me for growing pot. Those bright lights you know.

We pull off the packaging. More good news. The tank is on TOP of the base. The base is on the bottom. Hmmmm...that means bottom of tank is 6 feet off the ground...how the h*ll are we going to lift this ABOVE our heads. OK, slide tank off base onto throng of innocent volunteers and then onto MAAST cart. Casualties? None, great! Ok, better take base in first. That way we have a place to set it. Doh! Wife just showed up. I don't like the look on her face.... :cry. "Hey John! Did you measure to see if base will go through door?" :unsure Of all the stupid things to NOT think of!!! OK, we don't want to start a stampede. "Sure. I measured it. No problem!" If it doesn't fit I will run to my car and make for Laredo. Ok, bring it on...bring it on....up..up..no more up?...ok left...left..Hah! See there! I told you would fit! :angel

Ok. Now. THE TANK. It stares back at us. It seems to say, "You wanna piece of me?" Oh well, it won't move itself. Up.. up.. forward... forward... back,back, someone's arm is caught between tank and door. OK, no limbs lost. Forward...forward..someone get the cart!!!! Wheres the cart?? Over here, no it is over there. Ok, it is on the cart. Man, I thought I was gonna spit up a kidney..Ok, now from cart to base....how 'bout this way?... how 'bout this way?.... ok just do it... hey, it's sliding on!! It's on the base! Slide the base back against the wall.

It's HOME. No one was injured and aquarium is not damaged. What a great gang!!!!

You guys really did a great job. I had my doubts when I saw it setting on the base in the truck. But, you pulled it off! Congratulation and thanks a million!!!

Here she is parked and waiting for salt!

http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/aad.jpg

Isn't it beautiful? Ahhhhh....life is good.

http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/aae.jpg

Come back home. Wife not downstairs. I stare at my tank. Visions of SPS, fish, eels...Oh, here comes wife. Still don't like look on face...Well, how do you like it?.....She says, "It's enormous. We will have to talk later."....Ouch!..Hey! just realized, no one is moving this tank anywhere!...How bad could it be?..."Sweetheart, did I tell you I love you?"

The transformation will continue over the coming weeks. As I make progress and run into problems I will post here. That way others can benefit from my mistakes.

Thanks again to everyone for their time, patience, and hard work.

[falcondob]

Tune in for updates.....

[alton]

Awesome! and what did it cost?

[falcondob]

Awesome! and what did it cost?

A little bit more than "Wow!" and a little less than, "Ouch!".

[GaryP]

Oh well, it won't move itself. Up.. up.. forward... forward... back,back, someone's arm is caught between tank and door.

Someone asks, "Did you get my skin peeled off the door jam?"

[Thunderkat]

I bet thats going to end up being a beautiful tank.

Please keep putting in pictures. I especially want to see all the plumbing when you finally have it all set up!

[don-n-sa]

are you going to stain and seal the stand with the tank on top or are you to remove the tank first?

[Jenn]

:shades MAN, THAT IS ONE SWEET TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, call the guys at the freight company so they can square the bets they had on you successfully getting this put in your home! Tell them to kiss your butt while you're at it!!! :lol

[falcondob]

Thunderkat: Thanks, I hope I do it justice. If throwing money at it helps, I am in like Flint.

don-n-sa: That tank is not going to move unless a tornado or earthquake comes along. Not even sure that would move it. It gets stained right where it is.

Jenn: Thanks. I hug it before I go to bed. And the freight guys have nothing to talk about. They put the forks of the forklift through a tank once. (or so I was told).

All: More pictures will follow progress. Next stop: Plumbing, sump, fuge and RODI

[::pete::]

don-n-sa: That tank is not going to move unless a tornado or earthquake comes along. Not even sure that would move it. It gets stained right where it is.

There are always spills no matter how careful you are ... I would protect the whole thing now before you fill it. Veneer will peel very easy after getting wet!!

[falcondob]

There are always spills no matter how careful you are ... I would protect the whole thing now before you fill it. Veneer will peel very easy after getting wet!!

Pete, you got that right. I am going to stain it and cover it (inside and out) with spar urethene.

[NaCl_H2O]

Well, well, well ... 22.5 hours from delivery to first picture! 1.5 more hours and your MAAST membership would have been automatically terminated - The tank Nazi's are watching you ... VERY closely!

That tank is gorgeous, and your narratives are hilarious!!

Now: one critique, and one "Smooth"

Critique - Beer BEFORE the tank move! Are you f...ing crazy :wacko

Smooth - "Sweetheart, did I tell you I love you?" :wub :innocent

... We are watching - so don't be using the old RO/DI won't make water fast enough excuse, that one didn't even work for ~Pete~

[falcondob]

I do have some scuba equipment..hmmm..... :skeezy

[don-n-sa]

I have a tank from glasscages also and the oak stand just like yours and I really want to stress my opinion here. Please take the tankoff of the stand and stain the whole thing and seal it with several coats of marine sealant.

As Pete said there will be spills...and saltwater will make it down the glass and under the tank where it will be unprotected. This will shorten the life of the wood considerably as salwater destroys unprotected wood.

I will be happy to help move the tank as I am sure others will also. I am just looking after you man.

[falcondob]

Thanks to you and Pete. I really had not considered the underside of the tank. Looks like I may be using the MAAST cart one more time!

[don-n-sa]

I will be glad to help...I am available on weekends, your wife will appreciate you staining and sealing in the garage.

[jaded]

I can also help on Sundays (not the 24th, poker in Austin)... Especially if theres pizza ;) I sent you my number by PM the day of the move, call me if you need me

[cpreefguy]

You have sucessfully used every smiley known to man

[bprewit]

I am curious how shellac would stand up to saltwater? The amber shellac looks great on wood, much better in my opinion than varnish or polyurethane and it dries quick enough you could finish the stand and have the tank back on in the same afternoon vs. waiting for varnish to dry. Reading the can I have it does offer moisture protection but says not recommended for outdoor use so dont know if it would be the best thing?

[NaCl_H2O]

So, how heavy was the tank? Let me know so I can let you know if you exceeded the max safe capacity of the cart :skeezy

[falcondob]

I can also help on Sundays (not the 24th, poker in Austin)... Especially if theres pizza ;) I sent you my number by PM the day of the move, call me if you need me

Thanks, I may take you up on that. Everyone needs to experience lifting the tank at least once. ;)

[falcondob]

You have sucessfully used every smiley known to man

Thank you. If you got 'em, smoke em! I like them. Email is a lousy way to communicate. Body language, facial expressions, and inflection in your voice are lost. That is why so many flame wars start or get out of hand is because someone usually mistakes jest for seriousness or vice-a-versa.

[TexasTodd]

COUPON for Falcondob.

2 free frags when it's ready.

That's one F@#$ing killer tank!

TT

[falcondob]

Hey will you check behind the tank, I think I left my kidney there... :lol

looks great, that tank was so HEAVY...much heavier than I thought it was going to be

I found it. I was right next to my spleen. :lol It was heavier that I thought it would be also. I guess the 1100# on the side of the box should have be a clue.

As you can see from the thread above, it looks like it will move at least one more time, to the cart at least.

[falcondob]

So, how heavy was the tank? Let me know so I can let you know if you exceeded the max safe capacity of the cart :skeezy

Out best guess is around 900 pounds. They really did a great job of bracing it. There is euro-bracing top and bottom. Extra in corners. And the overflows are double glass bottoms. If you look at the drain hole, the glass is about an inch thick. The upside is the center brace is only about 2 inches wide, that extra bracing allows that I am sure. That will avoid the light blockage you get on some tanks from the wide brace.

Have you picked up the cart yet? If not, I would like to get it again to hold the tank while I stain and seal the portion where the tank sets. Would that be OK?

Sealing that top is one item I would have missed if not for the people here. That is what makes this such a great resource (especially for Gomers like me. :wacko )

As for how the cart handled it? Have you ever seen a 2x4 cry? :cry

[falcondob]

I am curious how shellac would stand up to saltwater? The amber shellac looks great on wood, much better in my opinion than varnish or polyurethane and it dries quick enough you could finish the stand and have the tank back on in the same afternoon vs. waiting for varnish to dry. Reading the can I have it does offer moisture protection but says not recommended for outdoor use so dont know if it would be the best thing?

I am going with a known item (unless member(s) have a better suggestion): Marine Spar Urethane. I figure, if it is good enough for an ocean goinging sailboat, it is good enough for me.

[falcondob]

COUPON for Falcondob.

2 free frags when it's ready.

That's one F@#$ing killer tank!

TT

Dude, thanks for coupon and thanks for the compliment on the tank. That is very generous of you. I hope it will still look as good after I am through staining it.

[NaCl_H2O]

Have you picked up the cart yet? If not, I would like to get it again to hold the tank while I stain and seal the portion where the tank sets. Would that be OK?

Picked it up last night, but you are welcome to borrow it for the transfer. Just drop me a PM when you need it.

[GaryP]

John, You could always move it onto sawhorses if that is easier for you.

[falcondob]

..... good enough for an ocean goinging sailboat, it is good enough.....

goinging? What alcohol damaged part of my brain did that come from? Probably lack of oxygen during the move. :sick

[falcondob]

Picked it up last night, but you are welcome to borrow it for the transfer. Just drop me a PM when you need it.

Thanks, Steve. I will let you know. Still trying to pick the right color of stain. Could you please PM me your address and telephone? Thanks.

[falcondob]

John, You could always move it onto sawhorses if that is easier for you.

Not use "The Cart". That would be heresy! Seriously, is there any advantage to another way other than the cart (support, stability, etc...)?

[brieman]

John, was glad to help with the move, only problem is now I look at my 125 and it is looking small. So now I am thinking about going with a 240. You have an awesome tank that will really become something to enjoy
Brian

[falcondob]

John, was glad to help with the move, only problem is now I look at my 125 and it is looking small. So now I am thinking about going with a 240. You have an awesome tank that will really become something to enjoy
Brian

Brian, many thanks once again. Hey, I think it would be great to have about 100 members with big tanks. That would be "Ssswwweeetttt!".

I am looking forward to not only having the tank up, but the process of getting it there. You know, the old "It is not the destination, but the journey." kind of thing. It is gonna be a blast!!!!!

When that 240 comes in, call me. You can count on my help. Try to order with a group of people. It really can save you big bucks in shipping.

[falcondob]

Phase Three - Plumbing

The process begins. Staining and sealing the tank should be complete in a couple of days. (Pics will follow, Gary.)

Drain and return system.

NOTE: So that everyone responding to my questions have a good idea of what I am working with, here are some parameters:

(1) I have an AquaFX, 5 stage, 100gpd, RO/DI with inline TDS meter.
(2) I have 1 inch (might be 1 1/2 inch) high pressure, city water, piping just outside the wall of the house, behind the tank. This is used by my sprinkler system and is always charged. I will tap this for the RO/DI input.
(3) I have a sewer clean-out outside about 30 feet from the tank. I have the parts to run plumbing to this for water changes and RO/DI waste water.
(4) The "real estate" under my tank, inside the stand is approx. 94"W X 28"D X 34"H. This is really cool. I could almost sublet part of it. :w00t. Seriously, I have decent room for "stuff".
(5) Like a lot of people, I plan to automate as many "chores" as possible. I have a Neptune Controller and 5-6 X10s to assist in this. I also have a "Single Liquid Level Controller".
(6) The breaker boxes are on the outside wall just behind the tank. I will have at least 2, maybe 3, dedicated electrical lines installed. More on electrical later.

I plan on installing the drains, sump, return pump, and returns first. Test it and then move on to the skimmer. (All testing will be with tap water until system has proven itself.) Any opinion(s)?

I have two overflows with 1 1/2" drains and 1" returns. I have checked the bulkheads I purchased and they appear to fit fine. I have silencers for standpipes 8) that slip fit and they appear to fit well. I have (4) 1 1/2" 90 degree bends and some thick wall 1 1/2" PVC pipe for the drain plumbing. I will be getting a couple of 1 1/2 ball valves for emergency shutoff and other uses ;) (to be discussed during the refugium and water change plumbing phase.)

All pipes will have unions so that the plumbing can be removed ;).

I intend for the returns to be 1" flex hose. Any opinion(s)?

Returns will each end with two 1" flex loclines at 90 degress to each other. (Are valves on the locline (a) required (b) nice to have or (c) a waste of money?)

Return pump is a new Sequence Dart, 3200 GPH. That gives me the 10x turnover that seems to be a common standard ;).

Additional water movement. ;)
I have one Tunze 6100 (maybe two and a Multi-controller) for lower level water movement. Even with just one Tunze 6100, I should have good water movement.

Any suggestions, criticisms, or observations so far?

[jaded]

I asked a few questions before I read your signature... so I deleted that post and now I have another question

Are you planning on running 3000+ gph through a 40g sump?

[falcondob]

Well, that is an EXCELLENT question. It is one that I was hoping would come up. What are the upsides, downsides, effects, and so on? The sump was built with the 210 gal in mind. Should I consider a different sump? I have a calfo drilled 90 gal that I had considered for a fuge. Should I consider it for the sump? Have Dan build me another?

[jaded]

well... thats totally your call, but I would suggest a closed loop with that dart and a smaller pump to do a reasonable flow between sump and tank. You really dont need all that water going to the sump anyway. It will be a bubble factory at that rate IMO. It would be a bubble factory at half that flow from my experience.

If I (i have a 135) had it to do over again I'd run the dart as a closed loop at low head pressure with a total of 6 ¾" locline outs with valves on each. I'd run a pump large enough to run the skimmer and return around 500gph to the tank (this is a guess at the right rate, maybe someone else can give a better number). I have an ongoing problem with bubbles and its all because I'm running to much through the skimmer.

If your skimmer isn't as flow hungery as my dual beckett you may be able to split the blueline for both and use the dart as a closed loop. Just a suggestion

[falcondob]

<snip> use the dart as a closed loop. Just a suggestion

For a closed loop, that would mean drilling additional holes?

[Thunderkat]

Yeah a few questions came to mind when I saw all that.

I have a Tunze 6060 on the way I see you are using one slightly more powerful in that ginormous tank. Is the 6060 overkill for my 50 gallon?

What is this Starfire glass?

What temperature will you run it at and will you get cavitation in your piping?

Will kind of critters are you going to have in that spectacular setup? (if you don't mind me asking that)

Edit: I found a pic of starfire glass compared to normal glass. How much does the starfire run compared to normal glass?
http://www.duncanglass.com/horiageru/Diamante_glass_Starfire_glass_/Diamante_Starfire/diamante_starfire.html

[don-n-sa]

What is this Starfire glass?
How much does the starfire run compared to normal glass?


Just a little clarification...glasscages does not carry Starfire glass, they carry a low iron glass that is comparable. Starfire is a brand name, you pay for the name. If you upgrade to starfire through Oceanic then you can pay up to triple the cost of the tank$$$$ Through glasscages I paid an extra $120 on my 240g for three sides.


so Alex Wolf your sig is wrong... :lol

[jaded]

The manifold I made is a PVC structure that sits on top of the tank. All you see in the tank is the locline

my manifold (http://www.paddletexas.com/cmgallery/albums/aquarium/normal_aquarium_09_resize.JPG)

No drilling!!!

[falcondob]

Yeah a few questions came to mind when I saw all that.

I have a Tunze 6060 on the way I see you are using one slightly more powerful in that ginormous tank. Is the 6060 overkill for my 50 gallon?

What is this Starfire glass?

What temperature will you run it at and will you get cavitation in your piping?

Will kind of critters are you going to have in that spectacular setup? (if you don't mind me asking that)

Edit: I found a pic of starfire glass compared to normal glass. How much does the starfire run compared to normal glass?
http://www.duncanglass.com/horiageru/Diamante_glass_Starfire_glass_/Diamante_Starfire/diamante_starfire.html

Let me see..
Question #1 I have no idea. I know alexwolf ran a 6080 in his 240 long.
Question #2 I think you answered this one yourself.
Question #3 80 to 80.5 degrees F and I have no idea. Kinda putting this out there to prevent things like cavitation and bubbles.
Question #4 I plan on SPS, LPS, softies, zoos, tangs, gobies, and some exotic things I haven't even thought of yet.
Question #5 Just like don-n-sa said StarFire is a brand name. It is just low iron glass. It has less "stuff" to block or scatter the light so you get a prettier picture. I paid $150 extra on my 300 for three sides from glasscages.

[falcondob]

The manifold I made is a PVC structure that sits on top of the tank. All you see in the tank is the locline

my manifold (http://www.paddletexas.com/cmgallery/albums/aquarium/normal_aquarium_09_resize.JPG)

No drilling!!!

Is this in addition to the normal returns? I assume I could divide the drain volume between the sump and the manifold somehow?

[jaded]

well the return from my sump (when I get the pump for my closed loop) will be nothing more than a 1½" PVC pipe draining into the tank. I dont think I'll even put locline on it, but I might since I have a few extra pieces. The return volume is going to be low, I figure somewhere in the 500gph range. But the manifold will be pushing all that the barricuda can put out at 5" head. Thats a ton of flow, so I'm going to need to add the valves to each locline just to keep them all at similar flows. As it is now the last outlet on each side gets far more flow then the others.

Closed loop: I plan on having an 1½" PVC intake somewhere near the midway point of the tank with a slotted cover to keep the critters out. The intake will be in the tank, not the overflow so it wont effect the amount of water going through the overflows at all. It will then run down the back of the tank and into the pump. I'll have a return line (1½" PVC) running back to the manifold in the picture

The sump plumbing: The overflows run into the sump which is powered by a seq. dart. The dart runs a huge amount of water to the skimmer and a restricted amount to the tank. I'll cut the ball valve to the tank down to get rid of my bubble problem and sit back and enjoy my lovely tank.

In my estimation you are going to end up with far to much flow going through that sump. You might not have the same bubble issues I do, but the closed loop is a really good idea, and since your in the planning stages, it might be worth looking into

[falcondob]

Could you explain to me the benefit of the closed loop system over the water just going to the sump? Is it that you reduce the bubbles issue with the closed loop? It sounds like a good idea; I just need a little more info. Is there a good website that discusses closed-loop systems?
Thanks again,
John

[::pete::]

A closed loop is additional to the water going to the sump/skimmer and returning. Its main purpose is MORE flow. If I were you I would look into an www.oceansmotions.com 8way on a tank that size!! If you put that on a closed loop with lock line ends split "Y" you would have 16 returns on just your closed loop ;) .

[jaded]

The reason I would suggest a closed loop is that for a tank of that size you will already be on the low end for flow even at 3000 gph and below minimum if your planning on having SPS. That means that you will want to get every bit you can from the Dart. You simply wont be happy with that much water going through a 40g sump and you really wont have the option to simply turn the flow down since you wont have flow to spare for the life in the tank. With the addition of a closed loop system you won't have too worry about either situation, you can have much lower flow to the fuge and sump, which will have benefits in the effeciency of both while also helping to reduce noise and bubbles. I'm not sure what to expect from that much water going through that small a space, but in my 50gallon sump the water just jumped the baffles completely at less than ¾ flow.

I just dont really see an advantage to buying/building a bigger sump when you can have a closed loop so much cheaper and easier. In the end its a better choice IMO I cant wait until a certain someone gets off his duff and sells me his stringray!!!

P.S. I will be running a stingray which at 5' head will be pushing 1000gph more than the dart in my 135 :skeezy
I dont think a dart in that giganormanomous tank will be all that you want it to be, but I dont know your plans so I cant say for sure that thats the case

[TexasTodd]

Falcondob, buy one of the Reeffiller pumps that guy in Austin has for sale from his 180g system in the buy/sell forum.............now!

They are the best/safest thing I've found for auto top off and they are about $190 new.

TT

[falcondob]

Ok. Now that I have completely confused myself with this plumbing, I have a few questions..

(1) The drains are 1 1/2" bulheads.
(2) The returns are 1" bulkheads.
(3) Sequence DART will the return pump. It has 2" input and 1 1/2" output.

I would like to run 1 1/2"fittings and pipe up to both bulkheads. There will be a union and ball joint between the pump and the "Y" on the return side to allow pump removal.

There will be a single 2" connection from sump to input with a union.

Can anyone give a reason why I should or should not do this? Anyone have better ideas or encountered issues that I might need to know?

Thanks,
John

[jaded]

put a single union valve between the sump and intake (its probably a good idea to use the on the returns too). A single union ball valve will allow you to remove the pump without draining the sump... make sure you put it on with the ball valve toward the sump... otherwise you will still have to draing the sump.

remember... if your going to have to reduce to 1" for the returns it doesn't matter when you do it. You could save yourself money by reducing before the expensive parts.

dont skimp on the glue!!! leaks suck

[scuba_steveo]

more pics please!!!!

[GeoB]

Check the pump manual. Some recommened a larger diameter line than the pump outlet. If you want to maximize flow use larger diameter line where you can. More piping volume means less friction which means more flow. This was my experience even with various neckdowns between the pump and outlet.

Enjoying the vicarious big tank experience. Thanks!

[falcondob]

Check the pump manual. Some recommened a larger diameter line than the pump outlet. If you want to maximize flow use larger diameter line where you can. More piping volume means less friction which means more flow. This was my experience even with various neckdowns between the pump and outlet.

Enjoying the vicarious big tank experience. Thanks!

I assume from your comments that since the outlet of the pump is 1 1 /2" and the return bulkhead is 1 1/2", I should keep it at 1 1/2" to the bulkhead. If I then step it down to 3/4" for the locline, the logic still holds? I have been told by several people that if it is reduced, anywhere in the line, it doesn't matter where you reduce it. Your comments seem to contradict that, at least on the surface. Did I understand you correctly?
Thanks,
John

[falcondob]

more pics please!!!!

Sorry Steve. Still at planning phase. CEO has approved color of stain and that will begin shortly. I will post pictures of that as progress continues.
John

[::pete::]

Think of it this way ... you ideally dont want to reduce it at all, but we know that is impossible! In line I dont see a difference where it is reduced because there will still be back pressure regardless. On my setup I left it all 1-1/2" until it had to be reduced.

[falcondob]

As the plumbing diagram has slowed a little and the stain has been chosen by the wife (Antique Cherry), I have begun to think about the hood. In particular the inside of the hood. I have read on RC that painting the inside of the hood white will increase the effectivity of the lighting.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this or does it just not matter. I had even considered the shiny stainless steel or mirrors. :blink What did you do for the interior of your hood?

Thanks again,
John

[falcondob]

Oh, forgot to tell you..I picked up a 1/3hp chiller and a dual-chamber calcium reactor. More goodies...one step closer to no retirement. :)

[don-n-sa]

I have a similar tank from glasscages...if you want to come over and look at my plumbing let me know.

what I did was reduce to 1'' braided flex tube to the return bulkhead
( I used 1" threaded nipples ) and then continued witha 1" return pipe inside the overflow, then used a 90 that was 1" one one side and reduced to 3/4" on the other...I think that is called a "street".

HTH

[::pete::]

White reflects light and black absorbs.

[don-n-sa]

I forgot to say that from the return pump I used a very long 1 1/2" pipe and used a "T" under the first bulhead and a elbow facing up for the other bulkhead...It is probably hard to picture so if you need to come by let me know.

[falcondob]

White reflects light and black absorbs.

Well, I guess that part I know. It is whether or not it is worth the effort to seal, paint, and urethane the inside. Do I get that much bang for my buck?
Thanks for responding Pete,
John

[falcondob]

I guess sealing and urethane are a given. The point is, should I go to any extraordinary lengths on the color or reflectivity of the inside.
John

[::pete::]

I said that because you want no unfinished wood at all. Especially in a closed humid area. That leaves your best choice .... white!!!

[GeoB]

I assume from your comments that since the outlet of the pump is 1 1 /2" and the return bulkhead is 1 1/2", I should keep it at 1 1/2" to the bulkhead. If I then step it down to 3/4" for the locline, the logic still holds? I have been told by several people that if it is reduced, anywhere in the line, it doesn't matter where you reduce it. Your comments seem to contradict that, at least on the surface. Did I understand you correctly?
Thanks,
John

I think you did. Let's say you have 4 feet from pump to outlet. If 3 feet of the line is 1.5" and 1 foot is 1", you would get more flow than if you had 1 foot of 1.5" and 3 feet of 1". Or if you have 1.5" line going to a 3/4" outlet, you will get more flow than 3/4" line going to a 3/4" outlet. That's all I was trying to say. Also, if the pump outlet is 1.5" you might get more flow using a 1.75" or 2" line coming off the pump. My Quiet One pump has a 1" outlet and the manual suggests using a 1.5" line. It was a big difference in flow when I changed from the 1" to a 1.5" line. It think this is especially true for non pressure rated pumps.

[falcondob]

Thanks GeoB. I appreciate you taking the time to relay your experiences.
John

[falcondob]

I said that because you want no unfinished wood at all. Especially in a closed humid area. That leaves your best choice .... white!!!

Yep. That was my plan. Every square inch of wood will be covered by at least several coats of urethane. Based on your input the inside of the hood will be white.

Should I paint the inside of the area under the tank black? That way I would see any salt creep immediately.

Thanks for your time, Pete.
John

[jaded]

There are some very interesting articles about the reflectivity factors of several different types of surfaces... you can deflect light with hammertone, you can reflect light with white glossy paint, mirrors, polished aluminum... They all have different properties

If you need to get all you can get from your lights I would still suggest a good reflector, but many people save the cash and just paint white. There is a big difference

check out this site (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/feature.htm)... I didnt get to the end, but it looks like there is some good info here

[jaded]

I cant find the article I was so impressed with...

[falcondob]

I think I am going with glossy white. I think it will add a nice diffusion of light in contrast to the sharpness of the halides.
John

[falcondob]

Ok folks, time to revive the ole thread. Been VERY busy at work so the tank has had to wait.

Progress so far:
The stand top (where the tank sits) has been sealed and given 3 costs of Spar Ureathane. Also caulked the joints. The inside of the stand has had 1 coat of Spar (hate doing that one, the fumes are a killer), it will get 2 more coats and have the joints sealed. The doors to the stand have been stained and have 3 coats of Spar. The rest of stand will be stained and urethaned this weekend.

The canopy outside has been stained and 3 coats of Spar. The inside has been sealed and painted whiter than a Klan rally. It will get 3 coats of spar this week and have the fans installed this weekend.

Pictures to follow on Monday.

I have assembled all of the plumbing pieces (Finally! the plumbing people at Lowe's know me on sight. Did you know Robert in plumbing has a son graduating next year? No, Really!). As soon as the stand is finished, the BDHGB (Big **** Heavy Glass Box) is back on the stand (Did I hear screaming?), and the "Mr. Acrylic" fuge is done, the plumbing will begin!!

Pics to follow that.

This is the equipment list I have acquired over the last 5 months for the BDHGB:
Dart Return Pump,
Panworld 200PS Skimmer Pump,
Wolf Reef Dual Beckett "Da Sucka" skimmer,
Skimmer Collection Vessel (soon to be acquired),
Two Tunze 6100s (and soon to arrive multi-controller),
Neptune II Controller (with 5 X10s, ph, temp, ORP),
"Mr Acrylic" sump and refugium,
Marine Technologies Dual Chamber Calcium Reactor,
Regulator, needle valve, and selenoid,
5 lb. CO2 bottle,
Aquamedic Kalswasser Reactor,
Single Liquid Level Controller,
Dual Reeffiller Dosing pump,
AquaLogic 1/3 hp drop-in chiller and digital controller,
Phosban Reactor,
350 watt heater with digital readout,
2-250W MH SE,
2-400W MH SE,
4-4 inch, AC Driven hood fans,
AquaFX Barracuda Chlorine Blaster RO/DI with dual in-line TDS meter,
300# of rock (including 200 pounds of really cool looking dry Pukani),
standpipe silencers,
and lots of salt and sand.

If this sound like bragging, well..it's because it is. I have watched every post in the For Sale Forum, bought and sold tanks, and sold just about everything I own (clothes, they don't need no stinking clothes!) to get this stuff. I want to put up a grade-A aqua machine.

Now.....I just have to fit it all under the tank...Hey, honey, how much do you like that wall over there?....Ouch! Hey, you can't throw a Tunze! ^%#$^%!! :cry

Pictures of surgery to follow!!

[falcondob]

I am putting the lights on the canopy.

I have (2) 250@ 20k SE MH, (2) 400 10k SE MH, (4) 4' VHO actinics that will be installed in the canopy.

Does it matter if the reflectors are mounted parallel or perpendicular to the front glass?

Thanks,
John

[CD]

The canopy outside has been stained and 3 coats of Spar. The inside has been sealed and painted whiter than a Klan rally. It will get 3 coats of spar this week and have the fans installed this weekend.

Pictures to follow on Monday


OK - where's the pic??? LOL
Got a question for you, John.... What kind of paint (white) did you use for the inside of your canopy, and what is "spar"? I'm probably going to use a white swimming pool paint (at the suggestion of bprewit - awesome idea BTW) which is (obviously) water proof and can be found at Lowes. Only problem is that it is only sold per gallon - and I'd never use that much (unless there's someone out there wanting to split a gallon with me :innocent ).

Wendy

[Reef69]

Hey John, I was there at Alex's house when you got the skimmer, I bet its gonna work great on your tank, its a cool looking skimmer...post some pics!!!!! :shades

Diego

[falcondob]

[OK - where's the pic??? LOL
Got a question for you, John.... What kind of paint (white) did you use for the inside of your canopy, and what is "spar"? I'm probably going to use a white swimming pool paint (at the suggestion of bprewit - awesome idea BTW) which is (obviously) water proof and can be found at Lowes. Only problem is that it is only sold per gallon - and I'd never use that much (unless there's someone out there wanting to split a gallon with me :innocent ).

Wendy


Uh...pics.....you can't see them??...must be a server problem...yeah..that's it..it's a server issue... :skeezy

Probably have pics by Wed. Got slowed down by family business.

I used a white primer, then glossy white exterior paint, then Spar Urethane. Spar is just a urethane used alot in marine applications.

[falcondob]

Hey John, I was there at Alex's house when you got the skimmer, I bet its gonna work great on your tank, its a cool looking skimmer...post some pics!!!!! :shades

Diego


When I get it cleaned up a little; I will post a pic. It really is an awesome skimmer. Take the spots off a snowflake eel. :D

[Brett Wilson]

Does it matter if the reflectors are mounted parallel or perpendicular to the front glass?
SE's should be perpedicular to the front glass for best coverage if you are using standard parabolic reflectors.

[falcondob]

SE's should be perpedicular to the front glass for best coverage if you are using standard parabolic reflectors. ;)

Thanks Brett, I appreciate the info.

[LoneStar]

lets see the pictures already!

[falcondob]

Wife decided that the tank should be a room divider. That means I have to finish the other side of the tank and hood. That has delayed us a little. Also, had to reinforce the bottom. Will post more on that tomorrow. Should have more pics soon.

[falcondob]

Well, no posts in a long time. Have new pics in gallery of livestock. Will post pictures of hardware when I am not ashamed of it. :ph34r

Here is my favorite zoo colony!
http://www.maast.org/albums/falcondob/abb.jpg