How do you set up a sump?

[Thunderkat]

I apologize if this has been covered before but with search I camp up with every post with the word sump in it.

I would like to set up a sump but online all I can find are people selling sumps or people bragging about how leet their sump is.

Like I said, I have found sumps for sale and I have seen pumps as well.

I could put a sump under my aquarium and set up a siphon line to the sump but how about return?

Too strong of a suction from the pump and I am left with an empty sump that will soon cause the pump to burn out and then the sump will fill up and overflow.

Too weak of a suction and the sump will eventually fill up and overflow.

How can one be set up?

Do you guys use a float valve to allow the siphon to work intermittenly and a weak pump?

A sealed sump would be nice but I haven't seen any of those.

Also can anybody recommend a small halide lighting system for the sump? I have a 50 gallon aquarium with a good stand that has space underneath.

[jaded]

Are you using an overflow box? The idea is that with an overflow your syphon will only drain water at the rate the return pump is returning it.

I'm sure there will be much more detailed descriptions here, but it sound like you have a striaght syphon to the sump, which would be very diificult to use, and quite dangerous in the event of a power outage, as you've already figured out

[Thunderkat]

I don't have anything yet. Tell me more about this box.

I need to know as much as possible so I can order the components.

[eric]

Like Jade said, an overflow box will be necessary and you'll be limited on a high end flow by the maximum the syphon tube/mechanism will allow. It's very possible you have to or want to throttle the pump down. You could get a pre-made overflow box from a LFS or lookat something like http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.html Andyou could put a sump undeneath just as you speculate.

I don't see why you'd need/want a MH setup for the sump though.

[Thunderkat]

I would like to grow macro algae in my sump. I love having algae in the system not for the looks but because of its health benefits to the inhabitants.

[eric]

My point was I think metal halide is overkill for growing macroalgae. A lot of money you could be spending somewhere else.

I use some spiral bulb from Home Depot.

You could search on refugium which will narrow your search a bit. There are a lot still and as many opinions as there are people with sumps.

[jaded]

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

this is a must read site for you... it will answer many questions much better than I can.

The overflow box is a devise that sits on the back of your tank. It consists of 2 boxes and 1 or more U shaped tubes for syphoning. One box sits in the tank and one box is hanging down the back of the tank. The U shaped tube/tubes connect the 2 boxes and is where the syphon occurs. The box inside the tank has "teeth" that will help keep critters from getting in the box, it also acts as a safety for overflows (more on that later). The second box (back of tank) is lower that the first to allow the syphon to work. There is a hose that drops out the bottom of this box and feeds the sump

Heres where the good stuff comes in... The teeth of the box in the tank will only allow so much water to fill the box. If the power goes out then the water stops flowing into the box and it saves you from the flood.

This is just a basic idea of how it works, you'll find more details on the site I posted above.

http://www.aquacorals.com/Pics/DryGoods/Overflows/Overflow%20Diagrams/Overflow%20Diagram%201.jpg

[jaded]

http://www.aquacorals.com/Pics/DryGoods/Overflows/AmiracleOverflowSetTh.JPG

just another image to help you see what I mean

[Dozer]

Yep, you have the basic idea, just need a few details.

Eric is right about throttling the pump down. In case you're not sure, he just means putting a valve (like a ball or gate valve) at the return pump's output so that it doesn't pump so fast it empties your sump.

I think a great setup for you would be around a 20 something gallon tank that fits under your display tank, with a single overflow box in the main tank running down to it, and something like a Mag5 as the return pump in your sump. Very easy, very affordable to start out with. There are many many many other options, this is just an example of something inexpensive and easy to get set up. I have this exact setup in a 55 gallon African Cichlid tank right now. Even though it's maybe not as crucial on such a simple freshwater tank, I still love it. I can put my heater in there instead of the display tank, I put an over-the-side whisper filter on it too for some carbon and mechanical filtration, and I have a couple sponges in there for my biological. And that's just for freshwater. For saltwater you can also run a skimmer in the sump (or next to the sump), and you can incorporate a small refugium in the sump too, which is very beneficial imo.

Where are you located? There is nothing like just seeing a couple of these in action to make the light bulbs start going off in your head. In this hobby, a lot of the concepts are quite simple but sometimes just don't translate really well to the written word. Sometimes 5 minutes looking at another person's setup and asking a couple questions helps you out a TON.

EDIT- There are some folks online that build some GREAT custom acrylic things suited exactly to your specs/needs. If you can afford that upfront that would be cleaner than an old 20 something gallon tank- just a little more cost for you up front.

[Thunderkat]

Wow, you guys are all awesome and wonderful in my book, I don't care what anybody else says :lol . I was going to ask where that thing went and poof answered before I could ask.

I am lazy though and found one premade. http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CR1517

Thank you all very much, I feel like I am one step closer to having a good aquarium.

Oh, I am in San Antonio by the way.

[Kylaohhh]

When you pruchase your returns, make sure you buy one with an anti-siphon hole in the neck. We learned the hard way. If you can't find one with the hole already in it, just use a small bit and drill the hole in it yourself. If not, then if your pump is shut off, the water will siphon out of your display tank and overflow your sump. It will siphon to the lowest point of your returns. We couldn't figure out where the water was coming from when setting up a friends sump / fuge until we finally heard the suctioning sound coming from the return. Needless to say, we lost a lot of water out of her 135 gallon tank!

Just a little tidbit I thought you may want to know.

[GaryP]

You might want to check with Dan here. He makes the overflows for most of the LFS in SA. As was stated earlier, you can use a 20 gal. or 30 gal. long for a sump. However, if you are wanting to do a combination sump/refugium you might want to consider having Pete or Dan build you one. I use 30 gal. longs under both my tanks, but I have a seperate fuge under my SPS tank.

[Thunderkat]

Can you use a pump that has the anti-siphon hole with a check valve to stop the water loss in the event of power outage?

[jaded]

I never needed that hole... the overflow box will only be "deep" enough for water to enter if the return pump is pumping water to the tank (that the beauty of it). Once the water drains for box #1 the syphons will break automatically.

However I did put a hole in the very top of the tube with a check valve (opposite direction) but I did this to make starting the syphon easy. You just suck out the air and the syphon starts with no muss, no fuss

[GaryP]

You can also get siphoning from your return nozzles if they don't have a check valve on them. They're usually going to be sitting a lot deeper than the overflow.

[eric]

Thunderkat, yes you could use a checkvalve in the return line between the pump and tank.

You don't want the syphon to break, just stop. If water stops flowing into the overflow box, it'll do just that. Start pumping again, the syphon continues happily.

There have been people that have had a syphon break and thus overflowing the tank, but that has yet to happen to me. Got to keep an eye on the tube, make sure air or snails don't get in there and disrupt the flow.

[Dozer]

I use a 55 long as a sump/fuge DIY under my 125. For the joy (and frustration) of doing something yourself and learning how to do it (I drilled it and put in my own baffles), you can't beat that route. Especially if it's hidden from sight.

However, now that I've done it, next time I'll have one of the acrylic guys on here- Dan I know is one- build me a cleaner, better one...

[Thunderkat]

Ok, if I can't get ahold of anybody (Dan has projects going and I need this by July and I dont' want to rush anybody that does this on his own time for maast people) then I will set it up on my own.

I found two overflow boxes, one has one line http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CR1513 and the other one has two lines http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CR1517 they are almost the same price so which one would be better, with two lines I imagine if you have problems with one line and have to isolate it you can use the other.

Which one would be better and if anybody knows one that is really good that you would recommend please let me know.

[Dozer]

I honestly like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46310&item=4375065 140&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It's cheaper than the other one too. In fact it's the one I use on my 125- I just don't use the black sponge filter things. In my experience it definitely is not working at 1200 gph (unless my Iwaki is vastly vastly underrated, which I guess is possible), but it works perfectly. Never ever loses siphon.

As far as whether to get single or dual, it will depend on how much flow you want going through your sump. This is an important decision when you factor in the idea of a refugium. A lot of this is personal preference, so you will have to ask around and do a lot of searching (on MAAST and on www.reefcentral.com). Me personally, I like little flow through my refugium, so with your size tank I would get a single overflow. Or, better yet, could you get the dual overflow and plug one of the bulkheads? That way if you decided you wanted more flow- or if you upgraded to a bigger tank, you could just open up the second overflow.