40g breeder

[dwdenny]

Anyone know where I can find a 40g breeder and how much it might be.

[Reef69]

Id try Fintique here in San Antonio, their prices on tanks are really good. Id say cheapest tanks in S.A.

[dwdenny]

I will try to give them a call on Monday. I will be out of town tomorrow in Kingsville.

[dow]

PM sent.

[dwdenny]

ok If I get one does anyone think that a single 175w mh is not enough light with a 14k bulb? For $10 more I could get a 250 but I don't want the water heating up to much.

[gjuarez]

Doug, you will be fine with a 250w if you raise the halide 9-12 inhes or if you get fans. Are you making a canopy or getting a pendant?

[GaryP]

Because a breeder is so shallow a 175 is fine for that application. IMO, by raising a 250 watt you are defeating your purpose of going to a 250.

Remember that light intensity decreases with the square of distance. In other words, if you double the distance, the intensity does not decrease by half, it decreases by 1/4. Cooling fans should be easily able to handle the heat from a 175 or a 250 watt bulb.

[gjuarez]

Thanks Gary for correcting me. I have mine like about 10 inches high. It is a bell pendant. I think I can use more light. What height would you reccoment I lower it too. I dont want any heat issus either. My room temperature is around 77 degrees.

[dwdenny]

Thanks Gary do you think I could possibly keep some sps corals with the 175 or in that case 250 be better.

[Brett Wilson]

I used dual 400W halides on my 45 breeder ;). It had similar dimmensions to the 40 only just ever so slightly taller.
However, they were radium bulbs which have similar PAR output to a 175 10000K.
Still, it was quite bright and I had trouble controlling the algae (not so good RO water and 800W = bad combination ;) )

Having tried so many different lighting combinations on that tank, if I were to do one again (which I am considering) I would go with dual 250W 15,000K-20,000K DE's for an SPS only tank, or dual 150W/175W for a mixed tank.
Because of the width of the tank and the wide center brace mine had I never like the look of a single bulb setup.

With a fan blowing across the tank (no canopy) and my lights 5-6" from the waters surface I was able to maintain 80° with a 78° room temperature and very high humidity. It is worth noting that the pendents I was using had glass shields on them (like DE pendents have) which made a large difference.

I have many pictures if you are interested, just let me know.

HTH!
-Brett

[GaryP]

I think Brett answered your question very well. I would argue one point with him though. Algae problems have very little to do with light. Nuisance algaes require a surprisingly little amount of light. They will grow just as well under NO as under a 400 watt MH. My guess, and that is all it is, is that the other issue Brett mentioned was the real problem. Water quality is almost always the root cause of any nuisance algae problem. Unfortunately that is not uncommon in a small tank, for two reasons. 1. The smaller volume of the tank means that an excess of a nutrient is going to have a larger impact than on a larger tank. 2. You are usually limited to what kinds of filtration and other equipment such as a fuge (which is really an algae filter) that you can hook up to a small tank.

[Brett Wilson]

Thanks GaryP, I've always wondered how much light was really needed to grow massive amounts of algae like I was doing.
It wasnt hair algae, it was a short turf algae that formed mostly on the glass.

I had a decent skimmer but no fuge most of the time and I was using RO water with a TDS of around 50ppm from a LFS.
The bulbs were also quite old.

As you can see quite a few things working against it but man I sure had some awesome looking SPS in that tank when I could keep the CA/ALK levels in order.

[dwdenny]

Do the aqua trend have a brace( I am sure they do but is it clear or dark). That is the tank that I am looking at purchasing.

[GaryP]

Denny,

Give Aquatrends a call. He will make just about anything you want. I know several member have had problems with his larger tanks but a 40 gal. should be safe. The owner's name is Toy and he is listed in the Pet store listing as Forever Pets on Basse Rd. His wife runs the other location. Its either going to be braceless or have the narrow plastic brace as I recall.


Here's a rule of thumb I use for lighting intensity for an SPS tank. Lighting should be over 100 watts per square foot. Since you are dealing with a very shallow tank you might be able to back off of that somewhat. Say about 80-90 watts/sq. ft. A 40 breeder is 36 x 18 x 13". Surface area is 4.5 sq. ft.

I would consider 2 - 175 watt bulbs or a single 250 bulb with actinic supplementation. To get decent color with a single bulb you are going to probably need to go to a higher K bulb like a 14K or 20K. That cuts down your PAR value and growth. That's why I would usually suggest a MH/actinic combination for a SPS tank. The actinic also really helps with pigment production so that they color up.

[dow]

Do the aqua trend have a brace( I am sure they do but is it clear or dark). That is the tank that I am looking at purchasing.

Mine doesn't have a brace.

[dwdenny]

Thanks dow.

[matt]

Remember that light intensity decreases with the square of distance. In other words, if you double the distance, the intensity does not decrease by half, it decreases by 1/4. Cooling fans should be easily able to handle the heat from a 175 or a 250 watt bulb.

That's in water, not air. Doubling the distance between the bulb and water surface does not decrease the light to 25%, or anywhere near that. The inverse square relationship you're talking about only applies under the surface, where light intensity at 24" deep is only 25% of that at 12".
Unless I'm really mistaken.....

[oceancube]

hey dow, well wanted to know if the breeder you have is made from aquatrend, i want one from there but im scared that with no centerbrace it's gonna bow, also what thickness glass is yours, and is it drilled, pls lmk if your tank is doing good, bow wise!!! thanks!!

[Andrew]

I'd have the 40 breeder made at least 3/8" thick glass if you want no centerbrace. Glass less than 3/8" will likely bow noticeably, as I found w/my first 40 breeder tank.

HTH
Andrew

[dow]

hey dow, well wanted to know if the breeder you have is made from aquatrend, i want one from there but im scared that with no centerbrace it's gonna bow, also what thickness glass is yours, and is it drilled, pls lmk if your tank is doing good, bow wise!!! thanks!!

Mine is a 45, not a 40. Still has no brace. Very slight bowing. I believe that it's 1/4", but I'm not at home to measure it.

[Thunderkat]

Algae problems have very little to do with light. Nuisance algaes require a surprisingly little amount of light.

Very true, my aquarium is proof. :lol

[dwdenny]

Is there any way to add a glass center brace to help keep it from bowing or does it matter. With a good canopy that would probably help not sure.

[dow]

I'm sure you could. measure carefully, cut glass to fit, cleane all surfaces to be glued, and silicone. However, I'm not sure that it's necessary. I'll try to measure how much mine bows when I get home this evening and will post it here.

[dwdenny]

ok sounds good. i would imagine that it is ok with it being set up for four years

[dow]

I'm sure you could. measure carefully, cut glass to fit, cleane all surfaces to be glued, and silicone. However, I'm not sure that it's necessary. I'll try to measure how much mine bows when I get home this evening and will post it here.

Ok. Sorry this took so long. It's been a busy week. The glass in my 45 breeder is 1/4" thick. The tank does not have a center brace, and the bow is about 1/4" at the middle.

Hope this helps.