Modifying sump and skimmer

[garagebrian]

Hey all,

This is a question for you skimmer experts out there:

I've been thinking about my sump/skimmer and I have a problem. I would like to increase the area of my refuge and the only way to do that would be a new sump OR to remove my skimmer pump from the sump.

http://marsh.webreefs.com/images/1906.jpg

As you can see in the above picture I have a section for just the skimmer pump that takes up about 1/4 of my refuge section(circled in red).

I have two ideas for removing the pump.

1. Getting another pump that can sit above my sump (in the area circled by yellow) that pulls water out of the sump and sends it to the skimmer. However, do they have pumps that can pull water up and don't need to be primed in the case of a power failure?

2. My second idea was to simply feed my drain pipe into my skimmer. My drain does approximately 450-550 gph and the skimmer is currently run by a Rio2500 rated at 700 gph, but I have its output trimmed back by at least half with a ball valve, getting it into the 350 gph range. I would probably have to T off the drain line to let some of it go into the sump to avoid it flooding the skimmer.

My skimmer is a TF110A(Top Fathom- out of business, but nice skimmer) with machined venturi injector and a counter-current design. Can this type of skimmer be run off the drain line or do they NEED a pump?

I thought it would be nice to remove a pump from the system to reduce maintenance and electrical cost and free up a little bit of space in the stand and running almost all my water through the skimmer before it hits the sump.

B.

[garagebrian]

No one knows the answer to this? I thought this would be a fairly simple question. Of course after 3 hours of web searching I still haven't found a good answer either, so maybe not.....anyone?

B.

[jaded]

so your overflow is draining into the compartment on the far left then goes through the eggcrate and then into the fuge then to the tank? Is the large white tubing for a return or this another overflow tube? Where is the skimmer?

I'm not sure exactly how your using this sump, but as an outsider looking in, Id suggest placing the return pump in the far left compartment and running 2 overflow hoses. 1 overflow would be controlled flow (ball valve) to the fuge and the other would dump into the center section. I assume your skimmer is in the center section, you could still have it there. You could remove all the extra "walls" you have on the right and gain all that room. Just get rid of the flew tubing and use PVC for at least that part.

Anyway... this is probably way off because I dont understand how this sump work, but if that was my sump thats the way I would do it.

Provide more details and you will get a good suggestion or two in no time

[garagebrian]

so your overflow is draining into the compartment on the far left then goes through the eggcrate and then into the fuge then to the tank? Is the large white tubing for a return or this another overflow tube? Where is the skimmer?

I'm not sure exactly how your using this sump, but as an outsider looking in, Id suggest placing the return pump in the far left compartment and running 2 overflow hoses. 1 overflow would be controlled flow (ball valve) to the fuge and the other would dump into the center section. I assume your skimmer is in the center section, you could still have it there. You could remove all the extra "walls" you have on the right and gain all that room. Just get rid of the flew tubing and use PVC for at least that part.

Anyway... this is probably way off because I dont understand how this sump work, but if that was my sump thats the way I would do it.

Provide more details and you will get a good suggestion or two in no time

Jaded, Thanks for the response! Here is another picture of my sump with some descriptions:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/75_Journal/sump2.jpg

The water flows from right to left(the large white PVC tubing is the drain). The eggcrate on the left is to keep any large creatures away from the pump.

With the way my piping is done on my skimmer and the small size of my stand, the skimmer pump can only fit in the right 1/3 of the sump, so I'm restricted with where I can put it.

That is why I was hoping I could feed the skimmer off the drain line(with no pump) with a tee for any extra flow going to the far right(where the current drain line is). But with no answers on that yet I don't want to go out and buy all the expensive PVC parts I would need to hard pipe this.

B.

[matt]

I'm not sure, but i doubt you could successfully use your tank drain to feed your skimmer, and I'd be a little concerned about your tank flooding in the event the skimmer got clogged or something like that. One thing you could do is drill a hole in the sump wall, put in a bulkhead, and use an external pump. You could also run some plumbing up over the side of the sump, and back down below water level, then hook up an external pump. You'd have to prime it to get it started, but as long as the plumbing in the sump stays submerged, it should hold a siphon if/when you shut off the skimmer pump or have a power outage.

I don't know anything about the skimmer you're using, but most skimmers will work bettter with a better pump, and rios are pretty much among the worst. Mag pumps can be used external and are better than rios, and not much more expensive.

[GaryP]

You said you were cutting back the flow to the skimmer with a ball valve? Why is that? Is it designed to be run with a pump the size of a Rio 2500? If so, its probably better to control the air flow going to it then the water flow. That can be accomplished with a piece of air tubing and a 29 cent air valve. Small adjustments to the air valve are all that is needed to tune the skimmer. I don't think a Rio 2500 is going to handle the back pressure from a ball valve very well.

[garagebrian]

Thanks for all the replies! With your comments and other research it looks like I can't run it without a pump, the venturi needs a good pump for good efficiency. I had my skimmer setup in Chicago for 1 year then took 4 years off from the hobby, I might have been running the skimmer with my Rio1700 before, but not sure.

I know the Rios are terrible(newbie mistake a long time ago), but I'm waiting for a cheap used pump to come along. Drilling a bulkhead is not an option as I have no room in the stand to have an external pump. I think I might try to get a 29 gallon tank which is taller and shorter length and make a brand new sump with a mag7 external pump. For now I think I'm going to just put more cheato in my frag section to increase the space for it.

Thanks again for the replies!

Brian