There just has to be a way!!!

[jaded]

Well the micro bubble problem is now on the top of the fix list... and it seems like its going to be a doozy

I can cut the bubbles to zero with filter media in the baffles but that simply cuts flow so much it climbs the center baffle slowly until it flows right over the top... as you can see in the photo

If I use no filter media the tank is totally awash with bubbles... there is n NO WAY that the amount of bubbles this skimmer and overflow are creating can possible be eliminated by waiting for a slime coat. I'm not saying it can't and won't help, but this is a lot of bubbles!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP!!!

http://paddletexas.com/images/temp_images/waterlevel.jpg

[don-n-sa]

honestly, your right...the microbubbles will decrease in time but the way your set up is you might have to make some more adjustments.

one thing that I notice right off the bat is the lack of a 90 in the bulkhead on the inside of your sump for your return pump intake...insert the 90 whether its a threaded or slip and turn it down as low as possible in the sump, this will definitly decrease the bubbles entering you pump. I will look at your picture some more to see if I can help more...hopefully they are as easy as this one. ^_^

[don-n-sa]

okay, its hard to tell from the pick but it looks like your heaters are right next to your return pump intake, can you put them on the other side of the skimmer? I know this does not help your bubble problem but I would hate to see the "my return pump is ruined because m the suctions on my heater came loose thread"

[CD]

I didn't really want to say this but from the looks of your skimmer compartment compared to the size of your skimmer, I think you are going to have difficulty taming the bubble problem. That compartment may not be as tight as the pic makes it look though.
This comment is not meant to offend you or Pete as the sump looks great. I am just not sure there is enough room internally to give you many options to try and solve this as the becketts produce tremendous amounts of bubbles out the gate valve.
My beckett currently sits in a 30 long and around 75% of the sump is dedicated to the skimmer output. I still have some bubble issues if I remove the filter material off of the top of the divider.

Is there any way that you can put a sock over the gate valve outlet to try and reduce the bubbles coming directly out of the skimmer or do you think that will create problems with the skimmer internal water levels?
Maybe you could try and plumb the skimmer output back into the first compartment to allow the bubbles to have more time to dissipate by utilizing more filter media on the first divider in the sump?
Just throwing out suggestions and my apologies if they are stupid. Just trying to give you some other possible options.

Chris

[don-n-sa]

wow...not sure if this will fit but with some plumbing rearanging it looks like the skimmer might fit in the compartment to the right...if it does that will help alot also.

[::pete::]

Take the skimmer out and try it on a bucket along side the stand ... might have to make that stand I mentioned earlier.

[CD]

Oops - just noticed the water level in the first stage of the sump.
Probably don't want to divert more water back into that compartment.

[don-n-sa]

if you cannot move the skimmer to the othe compartment then you will need to make the skimmer external like Pete is suggesting...if he is going to make a little stand for it like he did for my auto-topoff then you will love it.

[::pete::]

Thanks Don, but what I suggested was to make his stand like a "U" turned on its side. It will hide the skimmer and give him more room for equipment as well as storage space for the odds and ends we like handy.

[Richard]

there is n NO WAY that the amount of bubbles this skimmer and overflow are creating can possible be eliminated by waiting for a slime coat.


When I first setup my tank it was literally cloudy from the microbubbles. It took about 4-5 weeks for my skimmer to completly break in and stop producing microbubbles entirely. You can try whatever but I would just wait a few of weeks and see if they will probably go away.

[NaCl_H2O]

Hate to say it, and you are welcome to ignore this, but I think purchasing two new pumps is in your future >_<

My suggestion is:
1) Take the skimmer external
2) One new pump (& new bulkhead) pulls water from the middle compartment to the skimmer, skimmer return goes back to the middle compartment. I would think something in the 1500-1800 gph range would be OK for th skimmer, but ask other beckett skimer owners
3) Second new pump is your return pump and should be sized to provide about 5X turnover for the tank
4) Use Tunzes, powerheads, or a closed loop for additional in-tank circulation
5) Sell your big pump to somebody that likes bubbles :roll

Sorry, just IMO

[jaded]

Yikes!!! I dont like the sound of any of this

#1. The far right compartment is the fuge (no skimmer)
#2. I've removed the filter media completely and the levels are running perfect, just bubbles
#3. I will definately try the 90 on the bulkhead... I dont know how much it will help with the microbubbles, but that just makes sense
#4. The heaters are just floating around in there... I'll do somthing about that immediately... thanks for the common sense lesson!!!
#5. I already have a foot off one the wifes pantyhose over the output of the skimmer. It helps, but...

Well I don't know where to go from here... all your suggestions are great, but I'm out of money, so I wont be building any stands or furniture or buying additional pumps any time soon. I can maybe try running the skimmer just sitting on the side of the stand but my wife is going to kill me if this doesn't start to look complete soon!!! I was also considering building an overly complicated and angled output for the skimmer. Basically if I could make a series of 90's and PVC so that the water stays in the output longer (see pic). Do you think this would help with the bubbles? It would end up in the same spot but it might help to capture some of the bubbles, especially after I get a nice slime coat

comment???

http://paddletexas.com/images/output.JPG

[::pete::]

I think that would be more of a headache and waste of money than its worth. It would mess with the output from the skimmer which would mess with the input ... ect! Save the money from the plumbing and buy one of those Chinese curtians to hide the skimmer :D

[CD]

Steve,
I'm not trying to downplay your opinion and I know you are very knowledgable about these things so please don't take offense.
Much like you, this is only my opinion and nothing more.
While I understand your reasoning behind the dual pump scenario, and it makes sense, I seriously doubt that dual pumps would have any effect on this particular problem.
Regardless of which pump is used, the bubbles are still an issue with a beckett.
I believe the answer is not in the pump(s) but in the ability to enlarge or make better use of the area which receives the water coming out of the skimmer.

Jaded,
I would probably try to relocate the skimmer externally as Pete suggested. Nothing really permanent but just as a temporary testing measure. Try it on a bucket as was also suggested. I know this is easier said than done and would require a great deal of time and pvc.
It may not be the prefered or most efficient method but there are a few people on this board running single pumps for the entire system and not having bad bubble issues. Some of these people are running beckett skimmers as well. TimM is running a solo Dart with a dual beckett and I don't recall any noticeable bubbles, but he is running external from the sump.

I would initially try Richards suggestion as it requires no out of pocket expense but I really think it boils down to the lack of space in the second stage of your sump due to the skimmer being used internally. I am betting that if you can find a way to get that skimmer out of the sump that your problem will improve noticeably because the skimmer output wont literally be forcing water over the dividers due to the lack of space.
Of course if the pump is just too much flow for your setup, I would say that Steve is dead on with his recommendation.

Chris

[Tim Marvin]

Put another elbow on the skimmer output and have it return to the compartment on the right. Have Pete add another baffle just before the pump intake and put an elbow on the intake pointing down. If this doesn't work you can add some light grate in the new compartment to the left of the skimmer, cover it with screen off the bottom, and pour rubble over it.

[::pete::]

Slick .. !!!

[don-n-sa]

Looking at the pic...the bubbles that are going over the last baffle and in the return area are large, they turn into micro after they go through your pump. that is a good thing because after you add the 90 the large bubbles wont be a factor because they rise to the top much faster.

IMO the series of 90's will just create back pressure and still have bubbles. I would get the 90 on the bulkhead then wait for your skimmer to break in...you should be fine.

Just so you know, micro-bubbles don't hurt anything so if you have to wait a while that's ok. Also in this hobby there is always more than just one way to do things and there is usually a way to make it work no matter what, just sometimes it takes a little more thought.

IMO don't go buying anything else or selling what you have just do some tweaking and see what happens. In my tank I have a ton of flow through my sump and I have ZERO micro-bubbles.

[::pete::]

Also in this hobby there is always more tham just one way to do things and there is usually a way to make it work no matter what, just sometimes it takes a little more thought.

Did I just hear a MEOW? :lol

Patience .... !!

[jaded]

Put another elbow on the skimmer output and have it return to the compartment on the right. Have Pete add another baffle just before the pump intake and put an elbow on the intake pointing down. If this doesn't work you can add some light grate in the new compartment to the left of the skimmer, cover it with screen off the bottom, and pour rubble over it.
I think that would blow the fuge away... thats a lot of flow

rubble... what a great idea, but if I cut that left most compartment down in size wont I also cut the evaporation room??? Thats not a big deal for anyone with an auto topoff, but my limited space is really killing me!!!

when you say baffle do you mean a single piece of acrylic or do you mean a series of 3?

[jaded]

don-n-sa I dont think I have much choice... I guess I wait :( hate these ****ed bubbles though

[Richard]

On second thought, that setup just isn't going to work. I'll come take it off your hands and you can start over with a better setup. Since your a Maast member, I'll waive the usual pickup fee.

Seriously, this is a new setup right? I really think you should just wait and see what happens. If you have livestock, don't fret. Microbubbles don't hurt anything but the tank owner. The only thing I notice that you should do is put an elbow on the bulkhead/intake inside the sump. That way you'll draw water from the bottom of the sump and will be less likely to draw bubbles into your pump. That will cost you like 39 cents at HD.

[don-n-sa]

Did I just hear a MEOW? :lol

Yeah....Yeah Pete I get it :D

You never did give another way to skin one...Ha!

[NaCl_H2O]

Chris, no offense taken! More opinions, more options :D

I really like Tim's idea for a compartment after the last "Dam" - just like what you see following the dam in a Wet/Dry setup. Another piece of acrylic maybe 4-6 inches from the last dam. This piece needs "Underflow", meaning it is mounted about 1" off the bottom. In the bottom of this compartment (also 1" off the bottom) would be eggcrate. you can then put LR rubble on top of the eggcrate.

This doesn't change the volume of your sump (Evaporation area) because the water is flowing "Under" the single baffle.

This has some promise I think!

Also agree with all those above, get the skimmer out of the center compartment so you have more volume to dissipate the bubbles.

... but more pumps would still be cool 8)

[CD]

Chris, no offense taken! More opinions, more options :D



:D

[Tim Marvin]

A single panel should do it. Micro bubbles will kill your capricornis in a short amount of time, (if you have them) and definately in days. Fish will love the extra O2, and most corals will not be bothered.

[jaded]

Boy, oh boy... what a difference a day makes!!!

I have no idea what it will look like with the lights on but I got up this am to look all the way through the tank to the other side!! I could actually see the other side :) I'm not saying it was crystal clear but compared to yesterday this is a major improvement.

I think I'll wait and see!!! This may just work itself out after all. Now that the filter floss is removed the flow is ideal through the baffles and it seems that the skimmer is changing the way it outputs bubbles as it breaks in and becomes more efficient (I had to switch from a wine bottle to an empty milk bottle for the skimate). I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best, if it clears up on it's own then I owe you all an oppology that told me it would... I'll be the most happy wrong guy on the planet!!! please let me have egg on my face!!!

[don-n-sa]

did you put the 90 on the bulkhead yet?

[jaded]

no, I havent changed anything accept for removing the filter media... Thats a 2" bulkhead, I dont think I have a 2" 90 at the house... I'll probably stop by HD after work

[Tim Marvin]

I'd still do the 90 and baffle so you can use rubble and some plants. The caulerpas can handle a good flow if it is pushing down on them, and the rubble will keep it from blocking the filter plate.

[don-n-sa]

that's great news...because you will have even less after installing it

[jaded]

:D

[jaded]

well maybe I was just seeing things... I dropped by the house on my way back from a delivery to find the tank just as full of bubbles as yesterday. I guess I should wipe the sleep out of my eyes before checking the tank.

Do you think a piece of screen (like on a window) would trap microbubbles? I'll be heading to the HD after work for the female thread and 90° while I'm there I might pick up a piece of plastic screen just to see if I can capture a few bubbles with it. If so I'll rig up a pvc frame

[don-n-sa]

I would think it would help some but I would be worried that it would come apart and get sucked up the return.

[jaded]

yeah... I thought of that, but a piece of pvc cut in half and screwed together with a nylon bolt should be pretty safe. Id be more worried about junk from the fuge and I'm not really worried about that either.

It might even be safer to use the pvc glue instead of the nylon bolt. One way or the other, there shouldn't be very much pressure against it, not like the filter floss. I just have to find something that will catch bubbles but allow the water to flow well.

[jaded]

Well this morning I stood for a few minutes starring into the tank without seeing any bubbles to speak of.. I even saw a few pieces of "stuff" floating around so I fugure if I can see little things floating by then I should be able to see little bubbles floating by. This same thing happened yesterday morning but it simply has to be a trick with the lighting, I'll of course only know once the lights are on. Unlike yesterday I'm not convinced today

crossing fingers, holding breath, wishing, hoping, praying

[::pete::]

Hows everything today?