Acrylic Disaster???

[Ed]

Just noticed these on the corner of my acrylic 180g. Two places. One is about 2.25" long and the other about 1.5" long.:unsure

http://www.edsgunstore.com/ads/acrylic1.jpg

Is the seam going to blow? :cry

http://www.edsgunstore.com/ads/acrylic2.jpg

Hope some of you acrylic guys have some answers.

Thanks,

Ed

[JimD]

It dont look good Ed, Id get a bar clamp and see if the seam goes back together under pressure, if it does, that definately spells trouble.... Lemmee know if you need any help.

[georgeortiz]

Who made the tank? If you didn't do that yourself it should be covered under some type of warranty. I would defnetly brace it before more defects in the piece of acrylic make it crack and it begins to leak. If the tank was made from cast acrylic the chances of this type of stuff happening should be less. I am no expert but, from the stuff I have read on the difference between extruded and cast I think that is the case.

[Ed]

OK. Put bar clamps on it and see no change. Hope that is a good thing.

[::pete::]

Ed
Did it "break" away or does it look more like the seam is coming apart?

[Ed]

Pete,

It looks like there may be a void in the seam.

Here is another shot.

http://www.edsgunstore.com/ads/acrylic3.jpg


If it is a void, can it be 'fixed'? Maybe by injecting Weldon?

Thanks for the help.

Ed

[::pete::]

A void as in an "air pocket" at the edge? I dont see why it couldnt be repaired with weldon. Clamp it good and try it leaving the clamp on for a few days. It sure wont hurt it!

[Ed]

It looks kind of white like acrylic does when solvent doesn't completely penetrate a seam. I have some Weldon 4. Should I try that or get something different. Would you just apply it from the outside of the seam and see if it will fill the void?

[::pete::]

4 should work just be carefull not to get it on the rest. It will fill the void and the pieces will bond. Use the clamp to keep it as tight as possible as it cures.

[Ed]

Thanks Pete.

I'll give it a shot.

[Ed]

OK. Tried the Weldon 4 on the top one and here is the 'after' pic.

http://www.edsgunstore.com/ads/acrylic5.jpg



Couldn't get it to go into the second one.

Should/could I use a tiny drill bit to carefully access the void?

[Tim Marvin]

I don't see the picture?

[RobertG]

I don't see the picture?

me neither

[Ed]

I don't see the picture?

me neither

Weird.

Just the last one or all of them?

[Instar]

I see the pictures. Us country bouys on slow slip lines see it better, I guess!

The shell scallop shape and depth of that is pretty scary. Hope you and the acrylic guys have it under control soon. How long have you had salt water in that tank?

[Ed]

I see the pictures. Us country bouys on slow slip lines see it better, I guess!

The shell scallop shape and depth of that is pretty scary. Hope you and the acrylic guys have it under control soon. How long have you had salt water in that tank?

Larry,

Glad you can see the pics.

It is scary. The one I could get the Weldon in looks better, though not perfect. Still unsure what to do about the second one.

I've had the tank since last summer. It was about a year old when I got it and had always been a reef tank as far as I know.

Ed

[Tim Marvin]

I see the picture now, I have to turn off the firewall.

[NaCl_H2O]

Boy, I wouldn't be sleping too well if I was you :unsure

Let us all know how it works out?

Where's Dan ...

[Tim Marvin]

Looks like the tank is coming apart to me .... I'd be very nervous. When acrylic seems do break, they explode.

[Ed]

I am nervous.

I have put a bar clamp on each place and did get some Weldon in the larger one.

Still not sure how to get Weldon into the other void or if that is the right 'fix'.

[captexas]

Ed - I'm not an expert on acrylic joints, but I would definately be worried about it. From the looks of it, I don't think the Weldon #4 will do much to help the problem without draining the tank and going over the seams from the inside where the gap is forming. The way it is now, not much can get into that area to allow for a bond across the entire surface, especially with the clamps holding it tight. Also, I would be careful about any getting into the tank water, Weldon is some toxic stuff. If you can drain the tank water down below the bad spots and dry it out, you could put some in from the inside. Just keep a rag underneath to catch any that runs off and then let it cure for awhile before adding the water back. Under the circumstances, I would also go over it with some Weldon #40, it will bond much stronger I think.

[Ed]

I guess it is hard to tell from the pics, but the void appears to be forming from the outside edge inward. Not sure I can get any Weldon into it from the inside.

One spot is about 10 inches from the top and the other about 8 inches from the bottom, so draining the tank would be a major undertaking. May not have a choice, however.

I had thought about Weldon #40. Do any of the local acrylic shops carry it?

[RobertG]

I am sure regal will have some. I see it from the outside going in. Had to turn my Fwall off also.

Good Luck with it.

[::pete::]

The 40 is a 2 part "adhesive" and not a solvent so you will be better off with the 4. It depends on how "wide" the space is and its going to be difficult to get 4 to stay in there when its vertical. This is what you need so it can sit in there and work its magic!

[captexas]

Oh, ok, i had to look at the picture again. That is strange, I would have figured if the seems were going to come apart, it would be from the inside. As they are vertical seams, it's hard to get the #4 to get in there without it all dripping down. I would try it several times, letting it cure between each time. Also, apply it without the clamps on and then reclamp it after 30 seconds or so to let it soak in. Tightening the clamps too much or too early will squeeze it back out. I'm not sure about about the Austin acrylic shops, but none here in S.A. carry the #40. I've had to order it online in the past from craftics.com.

[Tim Marvin]

You could use a tiny drill bit and carefully make a hole into the void and then push the weldon in. I'd still be worried doing it full though because the weldon softens all the acrylic around it and the seem may just give out. I'd say you are going to have to do a break down to fix it right. Actually breaking the tank down and setting it up causes thing to go into a growth spurt. I'd be happy to help you for part of it if you make it until next weekend. Who built the tank? Does it have a warranty?

[::pete::]

Tanking it down is definitely the best bet. It would be difficult to fix full with pressure and better you take it down than it coming down.

[Ed]

Thanks for the offer Tim. The tank was made in Corpus. I bought it used, so I doubt any warranty applies. I'll call them tomorrow and see what they say.

Taking it down is looking like the only way. Just hope it holds long enough to figure out where to put all this stuff.

[Tim Marvin]

I have a couple large tubs and a 100 gallon rubbermade if you need to borrow them.

[Ed]

Thanks Tim. I'll know more after talking to the place in Corpus tomorrow.

[matt]

Hard to say from these photos, but if this just appeared in your tank, as opposed to being there since the beginning, I'd say you're probably on the way to seam failure. Unless this was caused by some event, like getting hit, it's probably an indication that the seam was simply not that good to begin with, or that the acrylic involved is not high quality. This is exactly the sort of thing you see with imported (especially asian) acrylic all the time and is a primary reason I used nothing but spartech polycast or cyro GP. Thin weldon, like #4, will not fix it, even under pressure. The only way to strengthen it, and I'm not saying this will definitely work, would be to run a bead of weldon #40 along the inside of the seam. To be honest, if you don't know the origin of the acrylic or the workmanship, I'd be tempted to view this as a sign that the end might be near, mate! I hope I'm wrong, and without really looking at the tank in person, i very well might be. If you bought the tank new, you probably paid a pretty good chunk of change for it, and there should be a warranty. In any event, I suggest you prepare yourself for draining the tank to get it fixed or replaced. Ouch, it even hurts to write that, I can't imagine how it feels to read it. Hopefully I'm wrong...

[Dozer]

Ed- I could come over on the weekend and help out with this too. I got a 44 gal. garbage can I use for water changes, and several smaller rubbermaids, plus probably a couple pumps and extra heater or two I'd be happy to bring over and lend you if necessary.

[aquadoc]

Sorry about the tank. How old is the tank? That is not a pretty site. Like Tim said when acylic goes, it GOES! Also about the fact that it would be easier to fix if you did drain it(Alot less stress thinking about it), and glue it from the inside as well as the outside. I still do not know if I could still trust it. It would always be on my mind, while at work or at some event, did my tank bust and the anticipation of wanting to get home and see. I would write the manufacter, if there reputable they will take care of you.

[JimD]

Bummer, keep us posted....

[::pete::]

The 40 inside as Matt suggested is more of like running a bead of silicone in there. It will bond, but not as good as the first initial bond.

[dan]

my 250 had the same problem in 2 places. just put some weldon 3 in there and that fixed the problem. this was like 2 years ago. never got any bigger. by the pics it looks like you took care of it. if you can't fill the void than you'll have to repair it from the inside. you could glue a square rod from top to bottom. probably do all 4 sides.

[Ed]

Update:

I spoke with Jerry in Corpus (he built the tank) and he assured me that a disaster was NOT imminent. Jerry said he would take care of it, but that I would have to take the tank to him. He also said that this would not cause the seam to fail and he would not recommend taking the tank down until/unless the void approached 4". His advice was to mark the places and watch them to see if they 'grew' over time. Jerry has been building this stuff for 20+ years, and has seen this happen before, so I am going to listen to his advice.

Thanks for all of the offers of help.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Ed

[::pete::]

Ed
Glad to hear you are good to go, well at least for now!

[matt]

I really think it's important to know if the flaw has appeared recently or was there from the beginning. It's also important to understand that weldon#4 or #3 is not an adhesive at all; it's a solvent for welding clean, well matching seams. It's simply not going to strengthen a weak joint. If you could get some weldon #40 in the flaw, that might strengthen the area, but you'd probably have to rout or drill carefully to provide some access for the joint, then inject it with a coarse needle/syringe. Since FRESH weldon#40 is not too terribly viscous, you might be able to do that.

Do you know whether the flaw appeared recently or was there from the beginning? If it's new, I'd break down the tank ASAP and get it to the guy that made it; he sounds like a good guy and will deal with it.

Almost every acrylic tank will have some bubbles or flaws in the joints, and typically if they hold water in the beginning, they're not going to fail, as the welded joints do not lose strength in time as do joints made with most adhesives.

[jim1000]

You could try to use weldon 16 with a hypodermic needle with a size 30 needle, let it set for about 45 seconds and then clamp over night.

Jim

[matt]

Sorry to disagree, but weldon #16 is not the answer here. Weldon#16 is simply acrylic resin mixed with solvent, and does not add appreciably to the strength of a joint. It works okay for repairing cracked acrylic pieces that will not be subjected to pressure.

The key here is to determine if the flaw was intrinsic to the joint from the beginning or if it appeared under pressure over time.