little brown worms

[Shep]

oooooook, a few weeks ago i noticed some little brown tube-looking things in my tank. Mainly prefering to stay on the live rock, i thought it was just algae and not a problem. i did a 5 gallon water change (20 gallon tank) and figured it would just go away. Over time the live rock seemed to be covered with these things, today i just sucked most of them out and into a jug. Thats when i noticed they move. I cant get a pic because i dont have a camera and ive been all over that Algae Page. even if they are harmless i would still like to get rid of them becuase they are over welming my tank. :(
(dont know if this will help but) My setup is:
Nitrite, ammonia, nitrate are all at 0 & ph around 8.2
96 watt pc 50/50
55 watt pc actinic
temp runs 76-80
emperor 280
400 and 600 powerhead
only 3 small fish and assorted softies

If yall could just please help me figure out what these things are and how to get rid of them i would realy appreciate it.
-shep

[GaryP]

Do you see web like strings coming from the tubes?

[Reef69]

A pic would solve the puzzle..

[NaCl_H2O]

Maybe flatworms??? Do they crawl across the glass any?

A pic would help :pics

[cpreefguy]

I know exactly what they are! wait.... need a pic

[seamonkey2]

Gary, I have exactly that, the tube with web like strings coming from it
what is it, and more important, is it good or should it be remove

thanks
Jose

[6LINE]

Peanut Worms?

[Polkster13]

It would be extremely helpful if you could post a picture of these little creatures. Do you have a camera? Or know someone that does that can take a picture for you? Do you need help posting the picture on this web site?

[GaryP]

Gary, I have exactly that, the tube with web like strings coming from it what is it, and more important, is it good or should it be remove

Those are web worms. They cast the net and use it to capture plankton. They can be a bit of a problem if your corals get wrapped up in them. If you can break of the tube do so but don't tear your tank apart doing it. I think the worm will just pull back into the LR and rebuild a new tube but I think breaking it off will slow these guys down. Actually, Instar knows a lot more about them then I do, maybe we can get him to post here.

[Shep]

They do crawl around only when disturbed, they 're no longer than 1/8"(and that would be a long one). they dont have white strings so i dont think they are web worms, and there are a few actualy crawling on the glass. Hate to say it but i dont think theres anyway i can get a pic posted.
-shep

[GaryP]

Is this the worms you have?

http://seaslug.info/display.cfm?id=5836

[Shep]

Pretty close, (thanks GaryP)....i think its definetly in the family line, i was wondering why i wasnt seein anymore copepods. Ok, now i know what they are but how can i get rid of them w/o using chemicals? The artical said there wasnt realy a natural predator, anybody hear different?
-shep

[GaryP]

A LFS will sell you every wrasse and madarin there is and tell you they will eat them. Don't believe it. I went down that road. The only decent predator I know of is this guy.

http://saltwaterfish.com/site_11_03/product_info.php?products_id=313&parent_category=4 &category_search=63&root_parent_id=4

They won't totally eliminate them but they will knock their populations way down. Now for the bad news. The blue velvets are pretty hard to get but I just got a notice from saltwaterfish this AM saying they had them in stock. They don't ship well from what I have been told and have a fairly short life span.

There are two chemical products that will kill them but please be aware that you can do some serious damage to the other critters in your tank trying to kill them. The flatworms release a toxic chemical when they die.

[GaryP]

Here's what I have found is the best way to control them without getting so drastic. I have tried every supposed predator, FlatWorm Exit, and still have some.

The flatworms are primarily detritivores and my guess is that you may have a buildup of detritus in your tank that is causing the bloom. The tend to build up in areas of my tank where there is little or no current and detritus has a tendency to buildup. I have found that increasing flow, especially in these dead spots as well as siphoning them out during water changes has been just as effective as trying to kill them, and a lot cheaper. Those nudi's aren't cheap and you need several for a decent sized tank and then they die.

Do some research, a lot of research, before you decide on a course of action to control them. I don't think they eat copepods. You may be confusing them with another flatworm that does.

[Shep]

Looks like im going to try the blue velvet route, once i get one (kinda hesitant to order online) is there anything that will help keep this guy healthy?

[GaryP]

Talk to Felipe at Fin Addict, he used them successfully in his Hex display tank to rid it of flatworms.

I see now where you are talking about copepods. I think that guy is confused with another kind of flatworm. They are clear. It was just the best pic I could find and that's why I used that page.

These guys will eat algae on the glass, detritus, and are photosynthetic.

[Shep]

Will do, thanks for all the help.
-shep

[GaryP]

In the meantime add some extra flow to your tank with some maxijets or something similar and direct them to areas where you are seeing the flatworms accumulate. Those are probably the deadspots I mentioned in my previous post.

[GaryP]

These guys have a tendency to peak and die off. The best way to keep from spreading them is by dipping frags or anythig else from your tank (except fish) in fresh water or SW with a drop or two of Lugol's solution per gallon of SW. I do 3 X 10 second dips in FW alternating with SW and that seems to kill them. A 10 minute dip in the lugol's treated salt water also works.

[GaryP]

If you are going to order the Blue Velvet's you had better jump on it. They probably won't last long. If you can't get them from Saltwaterfish.com, then check with one of the LFS and ask them to keep an eye out for them on their order lists. I think one of the reasons these guys don't ship well is that they probably aren't being fed when in transit. So, ordering them when they first come in is probably a good idea. If you order them from an LFS pick them up in the bag when they arrive. That's what I did. After you put them in, don't expect to see them again. They are pretty small and mostly nocturnal.

[mkengr45]

I had flatworms bad once. I sucked them out during water changes, increased circulation, had every friggin wrasse known to man, had velvet nudis, yada yada yada yada. Finally I broke down and used the flatworm exit. After siphoning out as many as I could, I used 4 times the regular dosage. I waited for about 45 miniutes the did a water change and started running lots of carbon. I didnt lose 1 single fish, invert, or coral. Now I dont have any flatworms at all and my tank looks much better. It has been about 6 months since I did this. Hope you rid your tank of these guys quick because they reproduce like crazy.


Randy

[GaryP]

I'm going to try using Melafix as a sort of experiment.

http://www.seahorse-nw.com/Flatworms.html

[Shep]

I think i've figured out what im going to do, thanks everyone who put in some advise......and happy b-day GaryP
-shep

[Thunderkat]

Sounds kind of like bristle worms. I had an infestation when I lived in Hawaii, I talked to many people there and they said the fish will not eat them and there was no way I could get rid of them.

I would use my fish net and remove hundreds of those worms with each sweep I did. I did this a few times a day every day. I don't think I even put a dent in the population.

Finally I took my fish out, drained the water, and filled the tank up with fresh water and let it set for a while then took out the fresh water and put some aged salt water back in and replaced my fish and the worms were gone (along with everything else).

[GaryP]

Some wrasses and arrow crabs will eat bristle worms.