Educate me on lights

[duc]

What is the difference in making a strip of lights or buying strip lighting and using those super white 100W bulbs versus the big $$$ ones y'all use? If you had 5 across it would be 500W so how is MH, HO, VHO different. Is it that you only need 2 bulbs instead of 5 or is it color or what? I am curious because I would like a BTA but I am not willing to spend a grand to have one. What about grow lights for plants they are a lot less money, are they different?

[Tim Marvin]

There are special phosphurs inside the bulbs that make them fire at the correct spectrum. Corals need specific spectrums of light to survive. Picture it like this: I give you 5 lbs of celery to eat, vs. 5 lbs of mixed foods. Which person will do better, the one only eating the celery day after day or the one getting the right type of food? Lighting is very important to a reef and skimping here will cause failure. I beleive lighting and flow are the most important mechanics of a reef, skimping other place just causes you more maintenance and work, but without the light and flow the reef will perish.

[duc]

There are special phosphurs inside the bulbs that make them fire at the correct spectrum. Corals need specific spectrums of light to survive. Picture it like this: I give you 5 lbs of celery to eat, vs. 5 lbs of mixed foods. Which person will do better, the one only eating the celery day after day or the one getting the right type of food? Lighting is very important to a reef and skimping here will cause failure. I beleive lighting and flow are the most important mechanics of a reef, skimping other place just causes you more maintenance and work, but without the light and flow the reef will perish.
Interesting 8) So what about grow light versus tank lights are they the same? Does a BTA need the same lighting as a reef or just a lot of light?

[NaCl_H2O]

This thread will most likely get LOTs of input, if folks are willing to type that much :roll

The lights specifically made for marine aquariums (MH, T5, VHO, PC) are made to produce the correct light (or color) spectrum needed for marine inhabitants. Sunlight is about 5500K (K = Kelvin) I think. As sunlight penetrates the ocean, different wavelengths are filtered more than others. 6500K - 12,000K (usually see this stated as "12K") is about the equivalent to what most specimens we use in our tanks see at the depths they thrive. Lighting above this level (14K, 20K, actinic) is mostly for our (human) viewing pleasure. The less "Yellow" and more "White" or "Blue-White" lighting brings out the color in the corals - for "Our" pleasure.

Standard home lighting is probably in the 3000-5000K range and is not considered good lighting for the marine aquarium, and it doesn't penetrate the water very efficiently/far.

I can't provide all the "PAR" lingo off the top of my ghead like other may do, but there are tons of threads, articles on the web, and good books on the subject.

[GaryP]

Some folks like Borneman feel that corals will adapt to any light they are given.

PAR stands for "Photosynthetically Available Radiation." In other words that portion of the light spectrum that the symbiotic algae in corals can use to photosynthesize. Grow bulbs are around 5K. In general, the closer to sunlight (5.5K) you are at the higher the PAR value will be. 20K are fairly popular in the hobby. They provide great color but have a low PAR/watt ratio as compared to other bulbs such as 10K bulbs that have a better spectrum balance.

The other thing you need to consider is what your tank will look like under household bulbs. The lower the K value the more yellow and the higher the K value the more blue. I've run 6.5 K bulbs in the past and got great growth from them because of the high PAR value but my corals all looked brown under them. A 100 watt bulb is probably an HO or VHO bulb. My 4 ft. VHO bulbs are 110 watts. I think a common household bulb is around 40 watts. That will depend on the length of course.

Higher K values are also thought to encourage color development in some corals. They produce pigments to protect them from UV light. High K value bulbs produce more light in the 420 nm range that are thought to cause this reaction.

One other problem I can see is getting a reflector big enough for 5 standards bulbs in a hood. That's a big problem with VHO bulbs and is why they have a built in reflector in the bulb. Its not all that efficient in my opinion. One of the supposed advantages of T5s is the efficiency of their reflectors.

[jaded]

The grow lights your asking about are different and really won't work for a marine tank in general, reef, BTA...
although you could probably grow a fantastic display for the algea meeting this month!!!

You will find that Tim Marvin is correct. If you skimp on the lighting there is nothing you can do about it. Extra effort like waterchanges, pruning, feeding, dosing etc... all that will do nothing to make up for what your tank is missing. Think of lighting like a childs diet. i.e. Your child won't die immediately from a diet of candy bars, but eventually he/she will be VERY UNHEALTHY, then they will die. Many marine life forms literally feeds off the lights, and bad lights is a death sentance.

In my opinion you would be better off doing a type of tank that you feel comfortable doing right. If the lighting is too much then maybe you can get your feet wet (so to speak) with fresh water, FO...

IMHO

[StephenA]

Duc, what size tank and kritters do you have or are you planning to get.?

Like GaryP said, the lower K lights will produce yellow/brown hues in everything in the tank. As you will also find out here most will say you can never have enough light. MH's are the best imo for achieving brightness and color. I would take the time to go look at the different lights too.

[GaryP]

Grow lights do work very well for a refugium though. The plants in a fuge aren't as picky.

[Tim Marvin]

Check out the TOTM this month. You can set up a smaller tank for less money than a large display and have awesome looking corals on a smaller scale.

[StephenA]

Check out the TOTM this month. You can set up a smaller tank for less money than a large display and have awesome looking corals on a smaller scale.

Good point! If you took away the tooth brush I would have thought it was a much bigger tank.

[Tim Marvin]

Another point to make about the grow lights is: they are VERY effective at growing hair algae and other unwanted stuff. I run four T-5's over the refugium 2 actinic and 2 10K. I have not seen any hair or cyano with this set-up. I can also grow lots of soft frags in the fuge, and mangrooves are growing great. My cheato, and caulerpa is growing under a 400W DE 20K on the back side of a 75 breeder. The one halide drives the tank and refugium up there.

[beagleton]

I was using a 3500k 400w MH agro-grow light over my display for about 6 months. the color of light (visable to the eye) and the effect to the corals was negligable. the corals actually did very well under this lighting, the problem was cyano and hair algae. as much as the corals were thriving the algae was doing much better, growing at an undesirable rate. it is important to note that i also was using pc's over the other half of the tank but the area under the MH was relativly unaffected by these. i switched to 10,000k about 6 months ago and no longer have an algae problem it was definatly worth the investment in the new bulb.

[GaryP]

There are a few ways to save some money on basic equipment, but not many.
My suggestion is to buy quality equipment in the front end and in the long run it will save you mucho dinero. I learned that on my first aquarium that was a hole into which I poured money.

[duc]

OK so the basics are cheap is bad, expensive is good, got it. I actually didn't think about looking this up before I asked then someone pointed it out and I read more than I wanted/needed to.

The big question is/was what will work with a bubble tip? Do I need all the fluff and bright lights or can less work, I do not have nor plan to put ANY coral in this tank.

[Richard]

What size tank?

[duc]

What size tank?
125, I currently have 168W's worth of T-5's. Hindsight I would have bought different but I never planned on spending as much as I did and for a FO everyone said I was fine.

[GaryP]

If the only reason you are upgrading lights is to put a BTA in a FO tank you would be better off going and buying a seperate Nano to put the BTA in. You can set up another small tank for less money than what you are going to put into lights in that tank for one critter. Its a lot cheaper to light 10-12 gals. then 125.

[Henry]

yeah setup a nano and tie it into the main system. I think dan talked about doing this

[Richard]

You could also add a 175watt or 250w pendant or spider light retro and build a rock island underneath to place the anemone on. That wouldn't be too expensive. The Other option would be to add some HO T5 retros which would probably work for a bta but I think they do best under halides.

[duc]

You could also add a 175watt or 250w pendant or spider light retro and build a rock island underneath to place the anemone on. That wouldn't be too expensive. The Other option would be to add some HO T5 retros which would probably work for a bta but I think they do best under halides.
What about a 72" 384W PC setup? Someone (Jenn I think) told someone else not to waste there money they would want to upgrade quick. I was about to pull the trigger on the 72", is there another option you would recommend under $400 that would be better? According to everything I have been reading on the web a 72" will work great for everything except SPS corals.

[mkengr45]

I say go with metal halides and be done with it man. You can do two 250w metal halides for less than $400. Then you could keep lots of things. If you go with PCs, I promise at some point down the road you will want halides. Greg (360reef) can take care of your halide needs.


Randy

[duc]

I say go with metal halides and be done with it man. You can do two 250w metal halides for less than $400. Then you could keep lots of things. If you go with PCs, I promise at some point down the road you will want halides. Greg (360reef) can take care of your halide needs.


Randy
According to everything I have read they only light a 2'x2' area so I would need 3 lights. 3 175W but 250W would be better and a lot more the PC.

[mkengr45]

You could just add the 2 halides to your existing T5 lights. Put the higher light demanding things under the halides. As for the 2'x2' area thing, the light will surely light beyond that it just wont be as bright. The halides are very intense compared to PCs. Just take your time and weigh out your options. Look for a deal on a used halide system, I have seen them in the for sale forum. Lets say you get the urge for a clam or more anenome down the road, you may at some point find yourself needing more lights. Spend the $ now and save yourself from having to upgrade a second time down the road. Do you see yourself getting bored with these tanks anytime soon? Do you really think there will come a point at which you decide you are not going to want to add anything to the tank? I think not. Get the crazy lights.


Randy

[Richard]

Personally I think retro setups are the way to go. They give you alot more flexibility if (I should say WHEN) you decide you want to keep more than just a bta in that tank. If you go all reef with it I think 3 250's would be ideal.