Several Fish questions

[duc]

What kind of current do you have in your tanks where your Banggai Cardinalfish live? I had a extremely healthy/happy one that died when moved to a bigger tank (125) with 1K gph movement versus the 55 with 1-200 gph. Then I bought another one that always seemed to be fighting the current and it died, then I bought a pair of them and one ate like crazy on the first feeding the other did not and died within 6 hrs. The one that ate never ate again after the first feeding/second one dieing and is now dead to. My wife loves these fish and they don't seem to love the new tank, all other fish are fine and the tank is well within all parameters.

Yellow Tang, I got one for free who was living in a 58 all by itself. When I got it home it did not eat and was extremely shy, thought it was going to die. It broke out with ich and after more than two weeks of never seeing it eat I knew for sure it was a goner. Noticed the cleaner shrimp working it over and now not only is it clean it is eating like a pig. Question is what kind of fish do y'all have with yours? We have lost two Flame Angels since we got the tang, he seems to bully them with his tang and they just hide until they die. As you know this is not a cheap fish nor a fun process to watch them die. We separated the flame last night to give him a chance to recover and it died, he appeared to have ich. When it was brought home it was fine and ate the first two days (picked at stuff never what I fed) then it went into shutdown mode and broke out. This is the second flame who died almost the exact same way, couple days of picking, getting bullied by the tang then no eating/picking and lastly death.
Is the tang that much of a PITA? Seems a lot of people have them so that cant be that bad.
Clif

[DeletedAccount]

Flames are just sensitive. They are also very picky about water conditions. I have given up on flames and gone back to other dwarf angels. They do not like me, either. Sometimes we have to admit that some animals do not like our particular environment.

My tangs were more aggressive in small tanks, like the 58. They are so active and need so much room. I think they drive passive fish crazy with their pacing!

Banggai's are beautiful, but I have found that they do not like the high current of my reef tanks. They are perfect friends for seahorses, but they are more aggressive feeders. They are also very delicate if gotten from the wild. Some will not eat frozen. I had one that had to have live food. Could not get her trained over. You may want to contact TroyValentine (user name on forum). He has had great success with Banggai's!

[jaded]

can there be an easier explaination? It seems you've had a bunch of different species with the same problems, all when they are being introduced...

whats your prefered acclimation process? are you getting healthy fish? what's your salinity, temp? Do you have LR or other obstructions for fish to "hide".

I'm not asking for answers the these questions... honestly it's none of my business and I'm not suggesting your doing anything wrong, but it sounds like enough evidence to start asking yourself some basic questions.

perhaps you have aquatic munchausen syndrome by proxy... ;-) just kiddin'

[duc]

I have heard that from a lot of people about flames, my first was so healthy I didn't want to believe it I guess. What kind of dwarfs do you have now?

Yeah he has definitely come out of his shell, very shy at first but now thinks the tank belongs to him.

My first one ate like a pig (anything/everything), not picky at all. We decided no more unless we put them in a low current tank. Many say current is not a problem but it sure seems to be IMO.

[duc]

Acclimation process?
About 45 mins of slow water addition while the bag is in the tank.

Are you getting healthy fish?
They look healthy and we have seen some eat at the store and home.

Salinity, temp?
Both are within limits, 1.020-1, temp 78-80.

Do you have LR or other obstructions for fish to "hide.
About 100lbs and I have 4 places setup as cave/tunnel/hiding places.

I am looking for answers believe me I ck my water constantly and I take it to different store for them to ck and to double ck it. All is well is water-ville but the fish (only certain types) seem to think my tank sucks and that death is better :(

[DeletedAccount]

I like the Coral Beauties. They are sturdy and the tangs and Lg Angels both seem to leave them alone.

[Reef69]

IMO your salinity is low..

[FSU]

IMO your salinity is low..


I would agree! If the LFS salinity is high and with yours being low, could possibly shock the fish!

[duc]

IMO your salinity is low..
FSU wrote:
I would agree! If the LFS salinity is high and with yours being low, could possibly shock the fish!

Even if I acclimate for 1hr plus? This is a FO tank no coral, higher salinity is more important with coral. Correct? Shock factor in mind it doesn't explain why some live and some don't, plus we are not talking a couple of days we are talking a 8-14 days. Wouldn't shock get them before that?

[duc]

I like the Coral Beauties. They are sturdy and the tangs and Lg Angels both seem to leave them alone.
Eyeballing one of those today but it seemed to shy and it did not eat when fed. Any suggestions/hints/tips on how to pick a good one?

[dow]

I like the Coral Beauties. They are sturdy and the tangs and Lg Angels both seem to leave them alone.

Ditto on the Coral Beauties. Mine is a great fish. Lots of personality, very active, eats pretty much everything I offer, gets along with my scopas and ocellaris. For a pygmy angel, I don't think you can go wrong with a coral beauty. Not that I'm biased, of course. :D

[JimD]

.020/1 is perfectly accepatable for a fish only system, in fact, its recommended. Hyposalinity is a highly regarded treatment for Ich. Some hobbiests even recommed a salinity of .019 or sometimes even lower. Typicaly, an lfs wont keep their SG higher than .019 simply for economical purposes. I dont know of any that keep it in the "reef" range, .024/26.

[CD]

IMO your salinity is low..


I agree with Reef69...1.020 is a bit low for a display. I've done this salinity in a hospital tank when trying to get rid of brooklynella on a fish, but for your display, you should shoot for 1.025
As far as acclimation time, I also think this is underestimated by a lot of people. You need to invest in a GOOD salinity meter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4361785 420&rd=1
Something like the above is the only way to go. Those cheap little plastic jobbies are not accurate enough to be safe to use. To give you an example, our tank stays at 1.025...it is RARE that the salinity in bag water or LFS tank water *ever* matches our tank. The last purchase we made, the water that the fish was in was at 1.028 - that pretty much warranted about a six to seven hour drip acclimation time, *plus* after the salinity was finally equalized, you have to put the fish or invert *back* in the bag to float in your tank for temperature equalization.

As far as Banggai's...haven't ever kept any of these, but I've read that it can be risky keeping them in groups...although a 125G should be plenty big enough for two to get along. I've seen these fish in "higher current" situations without any problems, so I would look to acclimation time, tank params., and tank mates to sort out this problem.

Yellow Tangs? Heheh...I call mine the little blonde b**ch. She was our first fish, and literally *everything* that has gone in that tank gets harassed by her for at *least* 2-3 days. :roll

Wendy

[jaded]

plus we are not talking a couple of days we are talking a 8-14 days. Wouldn't shock get them before that?

I thought your were having ick problems with some, that could easily be a shock issue that could take a couple of weeks to kill.

P.S. This wasnt meant to be cast aspersions at your aquarist skills... I just thought there was a cycle going that should be looked at. As for the salinity, acclimation, etc... Im not expert... it sounds like your getting great advise from everyone else, sorry if I started something! :blush

[Polkster13]

The higher the salinty the harder the fish have to work to get rid of the salt that accumalates in thier bodies. I would check the parameters of the water that is in the bags and compare that with the water in your tank. If it is a big difference, then that is where the problem lies. Not in the maintenance of your tank but in the acclimation time of your fish. Try to get a hold of something that allows you to create a very slow drip. I use an IV drip tube (was new when I got it) and drip wtaer from the main tank into a container holding the fish over SEVERAL hours. Then rebag and float in the tank for temperature equalization. Then release into tank.

Try this method and see if you don't have more success.

[Polkster13]

Here is a link to a drip system from Marine Depot.

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/piproac.html

[duc]

plus we are not talking a couple of days we are talking a 8-14 days. Wouldn't shock get them before that?

I thought your were having ick problems with some, that could easily be a shock issue that could take a couple of weeks to kill.

P.S. This wasnt meant to be cast aspersions at your aquarist skills... I just thought there was a cycle going that should be looked at. As for the salinity, acclimation, etc... Im not expert... it sounds like your getting great advise from everyone else, sorry if I started something! :blush
I did not mean for that to read angry, I am appreciative of the help/advice. Sorry if it read that way.

[duc]

The higher the salinty the harder the fish have to work to get rid of the salt that accumalates in thier bodies. I would check the parameters of the water that is in the bags and compare that with the water in your tank. If it is a big difference, then that is where the problem lies. Not in the maintenance of your tank but in the acclimation time of your fish. Try to get a hold of something that allows you to create a very slow drip. I use an IV drip tube (was new when I got it) and drip wtaer from the main tank into a container holding the fish over SEVERAL hours. Then rebag and float in the tank for temperature equalization. Then release into tank.

Try this method and see if you don't have more success.
So are you saying you think my salinity is OK or to low, most seem to think to low but I read your post as OK.
I have a drip tube I use on snails but not the fish, so drip the fish to.

[Polkster13]

Yes, definitely drip any new additions (fish, corals, snails), as it is always better to do things slowly. Next time check the bag water as well for ammonia, nitrite, salinity, pH, temperature and so forth, and then compare those numbers to your own water. The further off they are from your own numbers, the longer you need to acclimate.

[DeletedAccount]

Your salinity is within acceptable limits. Salinity that low can be bad for inverts and corals, but most fish can handle it with no problems, esp. the ones you are worried about. If you are tlaking FO, it is no problem.

[duc]

Thanks for all the info/suggestions they did not fall on deaf ears.
Clif