needs some info on tank toxins

[AlienAnchovies]

well not 30 minutes after sticking my left had in my tank and brushing up against a small palythoa colony the joints in the said hand are killing me, i cant make a fist or type, its been going on for the past 3 hours
any idea what the heck could be going on

[AlienAnchovies]

i dont know if its deadly but what ever it is it's making my hand hurt pretty bad, it feels kinda like when one jams thier finger exept most of the pain is located at the base of my fingers, there are no red bumps or welts on my hand

[akm]

Ive been messings around in my tank alot lately and i have a bunch of palythoas and i havent had any pain i dont think.

[AlienAnchovies]

not really a cut, they did jab my thumb today when i went for some blood work, but other than that nothing major, its not getting any worse though so im not to worried about it, i just did some reading on palythoa so if i end up not being able to breath all that well i think i'll go straight to the e.r.

[scuba_steveo]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/woundfaq.htm

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298525&highlight=toxin

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158730

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=272139

[scuba_steveo]

This guy lost his dog to zoos:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158663

[scuba_steveo]

If it gets worse...Go to the ER and tell them what caused it.

[Ram_Puppy]

AlienAnchovies,

if I remember my reading correctly, heat will denature Palyotoxin, so stick that hand in some hot water. Wash them really good, and wear gloves next time. Only a few Palythoa are toxic, but the ones that are can pack enough punch to be of serious medical concern.

[Jenn]

They are beautiful, but definitely not worth it. Makes me kinda think about not keeping them. I hope everything is ok and you feel better soon.

[AlienAnchovies]

im soaking my hand in some retardedly hot water and its actually feeling alot better, thanks guys you have no idea how much i appreciate the info/help

[Ram_Puppy]

Glad it is feeling better man.

Jenn, there are only a few toxic species of Palythoa, and we should all be wearing gloves in our tanks any how...

I can't remember where, but a good suggestion I heard is to have a vet order some armpit high gloves (like the use to give rectals to barn yard animals) they are inexpensive when ordered through a vet, maybe this is something we as a group should look into ordering and split up?

Honestly though, While I think caution is something we should all practice, I don't think we need to be overly worried about 'death by palythoa'.

[Instar]

All the palythoa are toxic its just the degree varies amoung species as does a persons sensitivity. I've had the same experience from just lightly brushing the tips of one. And they don't always react to sting any more than an anemone will recoil and sting you all the time. However both do on occassion react and sting. Normally the most deadly ones are not imported but death is still possible given the correct dosing. In addition to the palytoxin, stings from small polycheates and bryoid colonies will have the same effect. I thought about not keeping the palys for a while too, but, now just be careful when I mess with them. And never grab a rock except from the top unless I have gloves on. It takes all night for the swelling in my hands to go down. The stings and toxins are not the same as a Mycobacterium or Vibrio infection. And never handle anything if your hand has a pin *****, scrape or cut -- wear gloves. Should be doing that all the time anyway because many animals in the tanks are very allergic to your hands. Touching some will kill them. So, best protection for both humans and the animals in a reef tank is to wear gloves all the time. And wash them between touching one coral to the next. Remember the chemical warfare they wage on each other? What happens if you touch one with a glove, then immediately grab the other? One of those corals gets a direct hit. Sometimes you will loose a branch to that method and wonder why for months on end. Josh has been doing this a long time and may be immune for one reason or another. Not everyone is so blessed.

The paly swelled up my hand, the polycheates and bryoids did too but the yellow carpet anemone put me on the floor and sent me to the hospital in repiratory distress. It took several months for the wound to heal and a couple years to loose the scar on my wrist from that carpet. It never stung previously to that and never after. I think the advice to wear gloves given on WetWeb is good advice.

[Ram_Puppy]

crazy what lives in our tanks....

[GaryP]

Anthonly Calfo has a funny story in his book about fragging Palys. He absent mindedly put a scalpel he was using between his teeth when he ran short of hands. Palytoxin can act as a nerve blocking agent. He couldn't taste anything or talk very well for about a week. Sorta like Botox.

gary

[Instar]

Are you raising a sea monster in there Joshua? LoL Imagine what happens to little fish that get too close? I don't know Joshua, I've had lots of carpets stuck to me over the years. Only ever had one recoil-sting like a weapon that one time. I saw a BTA hit someone like that recently and he came flying out of the tank shaking his hand. The burning/stinging went on for much longer than I ever thought a BTA could do.

[GaryP]

AA,

When all else fails, put some meat tenderizer on something like that. I never go to the coast without it. Works good on jellyfish stings, urchin spines, and stingray spines, and when I get gaffed by a fish.

Gary

[C.Mydas]

This topic is ironic. Two days ago I rearranged the corals in my 37g, and that night my arm brought me to tears. Starting at the elbow and going into my hand it felt like my bones were revolting against being in my body. I took some pain medication thinking I must have tweeked it doing something then Brian pointed out it could have been something in the tank. Needless to say the medication didn't do anything. I didn't think it was anything in the tank b/c it was my left hand and I had my right hand in the water. Here's the 'ironic' part. I grabbed a rock with some palythoas on it and passed it off to my left hand at the top of the tank while I moved some rock around. I had it in my left hand for about 10seconds, apparently long enough. I wish I had known the hot water thing....it had gone away by the next morning though. The only other time I've reacted was to trumpets. They were the only thing I handled and walked away with the welps to prove it.

[ansonluna]

I have a question also and I'd like to see if anyone else experiences it. When I mess with the tank (just sticking my hands in the water) my hands and especially my finger tips get very dry for several days. My finger tips stay pruny, as if I were soaking in the bath tub for a while; and they peel like crazy. My finger tips get so dry that I can't even turn pages on books, I have to lick my fingers every time. So am I a freak or what?

[CD]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4356133807&fromMakeTra ck=true

Here are some semi-disposable aquarium gloves...$8.85 shipped for a packet of 50 gloves. I've also seen some really nice ones at Austin Aquariums for $20. bucks, which will probably be the ones I'll end up with...nice, heavy duty - made to last. The ones we currently have only come to the elbow, which needless to say really limit you to how deep you can go in your tank. ;)

Wendy

[AlienAnchovies]

well ive learnt my lesson, i went and bought a box of bovine rectal exame gloves so this will never happen again, hands doing alot better, i can move it and make fist, its still a tab bit sore though

[Ram_Puppy]

Richard was telling me Home Depot sells a great pair of Neoprene gloves that will foot the bill.

[CD]

Richard was telling me Home Depot sells a great pair of Neoprene gloves that will foot the bill.


That's where we got our current gloves, which only go to the elbow. They are fine until you need to get to the bottom of the tank. They didn't have any "armpit" length ones at our HD...was that what you were talking about, or the shorter ones?

Wendy

[Jenn]

Wendy, thanks for that ebay link earlier. I bought some and will let you know how they work.

[CD]

Wendy, thanks for that ebay link earlier. I bought some and will let you know how they work.

Cool! I'm especially interested in knowing how many times you will be able to use a pair before having to dispose. Yes - Please LMK ;)
If they hold up pretty well, I may go that route rather than spend the $20. plus tax on the other ones I was looking at.

Wendy

[CD]

Josh - the ES1111 are the same gloves they have at Austin Aquariums ($20.)...by the time you add in the shipping from marinedepot, they would be about the same price. I took them out of the box and looked at them, and they are *nice*. Very sturdy, and look like they would last a long time. Not sure how well the seam between the bottom and top would stay leakproof, but they did look sturdy.

Wendy

[ansonluna]

:? ...uh...so was my post just shrugged off as a joke? I was asking in a serious manner...I just wanted to know if it was common. I though maybe since the topic was negative reactions to tank interaction I could ask and get some useful info. Thanks for the feedback ;-)

[MikeDeL]

I have a question also and I'd like to see if anyone else experiences it. When I mess with the tank (just sticking my hands in the water) my hands and especially my finger tips get very dry for several days. My finger tips stay pruny, as if I were soaking in the bath tub for a while; and they peel like crazy. My finger tips get so dry that I can't even turn pages on books, I have to lick my fingers every time. So am I a freak or what?

Happens to me too. I think the saltwater just dries out your skin. Saltwater gets on your hands drys and leaves the salt behind. The salt then sucks moisture out of your skin. Kind of like when you eat a really salty bag of chips, and your lips start to get a little chapped. I geuss it effects your hands more because it is harder to wipe your hands dry then it is your arms. Especially between your fingers and around your finger nails.

[ansonluna]

Cool thanks 8) Now, I'll leave this thread alone and let you guys get back to the rectal glove discussion :-D

[CD]

Cool thanks Now, I'll leave this thread alone and let you guys get back to the rectal glove discussion


Truthfully, you probably should try to wear gloves more often, and then this wouldn't happen. Also, the oils in your skin aren't helping the water in your tank much either. Do you have a protein skimmer? If yes, try the following experiment to kind of give you an idea...make sure your skimmer is producing foam as it should be, then stick your hand in the tank and see how quickly the foam disappears. This is from the natural oils in your skin.
If I find it a necessity to put my bare hands in the tank, I scrub them well (as far up the arm as you plan on putting in the tank) with liquid dishwashing detergent, then rinse *very* well. This gets a large portion of the oils off your skin. When you are done, do the same thing again to get all the salt and bacteria off. I don't particularly have a problem with dried out skin myself, but I find if I don't wash well afterwards, my skin gets itchy.
HTHs

Wendy

[Ram_Puppy]

Joshua, I asked richard from CB Pets if they carried the gloves you were talking about, and he said no, they were crap and that they spring leaks. I did some research on them, and apparently that is a lot of peoples opinion, the seam where they change from orange to blue springs a leak for many many people. I remember now doing some research trying to find a high quality glove a year or so ago. I had some requirements, had to be thick and tough obviously, no leaks please, and it had to go up to the armpit, since my tank is 30"s deep, a short glove is useless to me... (Of course, that is what my aqua grippers are for right? ;) )

I'll see if i can find them again.

[CD]

the seam where they change from orange to blue springs a leak for many many people.


Ram - good thing you posted this! After looking at them in the LFS, they *looked* nice, but there was no way to leak test them without buying them...the seam was the only part I was worried about as well, and from the sounds of it, these are better left in the store. Thanks, and keep us posted on what you find ;)

Wendy